Do you want a reboot?

[Habis]

Nope.

My eyes ache. I don't want them anymore.

[CSTowle]

Have you looked at the sales? If you have you would realize thats false. Batman's increased print sales alone make the New52 a complete success. Batman is selling over 200% more per month on average than it did prior to New52. Not to mention that the first year after the new 52 Digital sales increased 213% in the first year then another 180% after the second year.

Are all Batman titles selling that well, or is the main title having fan favorites Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo a factor? Also, digital sales across the board have been up because it's a new and growing portion of the industry. That's not because of the reboot, it's because people and the industry are moving in that direction.

Even they've admitted they rushed things, had multiple missteps, have cancelled about half the books they started out with, and have had very few quality books to replace those cancelled. If DC could do it over again I'm sure they would.

Luckily if Marvel gets to reboot they can learn from DC's mistakes. Or they can make all new ones. Time will tell.

[CSTowle]

There are certain things I'd like to erase, like half the Marvel U's heroes acting not just like villains but like Red Skull/Lex Luthor type mega-villains. Wiping out most of the mutants, destroying alternate realities, backstabbing each other (or like one of my very favorites, the Black Panther, front-stabbing), doing things that make Hank's Wasp slap look like minor offenses.

Hard to know who to root for when they all take turns playing the bad guy. I loved Civil War, but this seems to be its legacy. Wiping that out and resetting it to zero might not be such a bad thing. It's what made Ultimate Spider-Man by Bendis and Bagley (coming as it did so quickly after the clone saga and Norman Osborn/May resurrections) such a breath of fresh air. It was Spidey at his most basic, but updated for a modern audience.

It's a shame the rest of the line seemed to be a bad aping of the Authority, trying to push the envelope and be "edgy" instead of doing like Bendis' Ultimate Spidey and building the character and emphasizing heart and story instead of "This A doesn't stand for France!" one-liners.

[Powerboy]

I'd say no, frankly. To springboard off the discussion in jackolover's thread about Marvel throwing off the "yoke" of the Silver Age by making so many of the heroes that debuted in that era utterly unlikeable jerks with no real claim to the moral high ground, if Marvel rebooted, who the hell would be on the ground floor to build up the "New" Marvel? Given who's largely been entrusted already with reshaping the modern Marvel Universe in the last few years, it'd most likely be the same people who spent the last decade systematically chipping away at and tearing down the foundations of the "Old" Marvel, only now they'd have the power to make their rather flawed portrayals and interpretations of the characters the official, canonical versions of them. That's not something I'd look forward to.

I don't follow a lot of current Marvel though I'm going back through the old Iron-Man stuff and working my way toward the present on Marvel Digital Unlimited. I understand the need for updates. Example: Tony Stark became Iron-Man in Afghanistan in the early part of the first decade of the 21st century rather than in Vietnam in 1963. Though, personally, since we accept all sorts of genre absurdities such as a man hiding his identity by putting on or taking off a pair of glasses, or hiding his identity even from those who know him personally in both identities by wearing a mask, and endless others, simply ignoring the realities of time passing and saying it happened when, where and how it happened and ignoring the realities of the passage of time in the real world in favor of super hero comics existing in a sort of timeless realm is no less realistic than any of the other genre conventions we accept. At the very least, it's a far better solution than DC throwing out the histories of their characters every couple of decades or partially throwing them out which is even worse. It also spares us comedy routines like, "It was really Hydra, not the Cold War".

But, that said, the updates, saying things happened more recently, isn't the problem for me although I found a story where someone had to explain to Tony Stark what the nation was like in the 1960s to be something I had to think of as an alternate reality story and not the main MU Stark. It's when the personalities of characters are rewritten to the point that it's not even that character anymore. Stark is one example, where his whole personality is drastically different from what it once was to the point where I find myself thinking I'd like to see a big finale where they tell what finally happened in the life of the original Stark (whatever era they set it in) before they continue this alternate Stark that now exists. But then again, since it would be the current Marvel writers doing it, it would have little feeling of being the original Stark.

Bottom line: rather than reboot and throw out all vestige of Marvel's beginnings in favor of some of the current versions with no moral high ground, I'd prefer they at least have some tenuous connection to their established histories.

That's not even to say I don't like a lot of the current stuff because I do like a lot of it. But it does feel as if it's an alternate reality with only an alleged connection to who the characters once were.

[Powerboy]

If it got rid of all of the deeds of the past few years: yes. It'd be nice to look at these characters and see heroes again instead of villains with good pr.

Well, yes, if it's a reboot that eliminates some things and puts the characters back to being recognizable as who they originally were, so to speak.

[Powerboy]

Y'know, I'd sort of love it if Marvel had a parallel Earth where they rebooted everything back to this story:



but have it taking place in the present. Then, you could write all-new stories based on the characters as they were in 1965 (but keeping later retcons to pre-1965 history, like still having Captain America, Human Torch, and Sub-Mariner forming The Invaders back in WWII, etc.). You could still introduce post-1965 characters and stories at some point, but you wouldn't have to keep all the truly bizarre and convoluted stuff that's in the current Marvel canon.

I'd like that. Pick a period where the characters could believably be in their original time period and style of story-telling and just say that is the original reality and do stories there. Meanwhile, reboot the current main Marvel all you want. The "side universe" that is really the original universe doesn't have to be a big deal with a lot of comics in it, just so long as it features all the original characters once in a while and continues their stories.

[MajorHoy]

Are all Batman titles selling that well, or is the main title having fan favorites Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo a factor?

The main Batman title is doing insanely well, but even other Bat-titles are in pretty good shape. From the December Top 300 Comic Books list (which is basically what copies Diamond supplies to comic book shops), you had:
1st = BATMAN #37 - 113,255 copies
4th = BATMAN ANNUAL #3 - 81,396 copies
11th = HARLEY QUINN #13 - 68,102 copies
13th = HARLEY QUINN HOLIDAY SPECIAL #1 - 63,465 copies
17th = ROBIN RISES ALPHA #1 - 57,990 copies
19th = DETECTIVE COMICS #37 - 54,953 copies
20th = BATMAN AND ROBIN #37 - 53,543 copies
26th = BATMAN ETERNAL #35 - 48,999 copies
27th = BATMAN ETERNAL #36 - 48,683 copies
28th = BATMAN ETERNAL #37 - 48,083 copies
29th = BATMAN ETERNAL #38 - 48,035 copies
30th = BATMAN ETERNAL #39 - 47,782 copies
33rd = BATGIRL #37 - 45,060 copies
34th = BATMAN SUPERMAN #17 - 44,714 copies

Now, how many of those copies were actually bought by readers vs. how many extra copies comic book shops didn't sell but still have may be another question.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'd prefer a 20 years or more time skip and just let the "new kids" get a chance to take over.

Most of the guard is retired/dead etc and there would be no need to fuss about continuity since you could say it happened and not stress since most of the young guns wouldnt care as much.

[Rogue Star]

Yes and no. Let's have a Classic Marvel, all the old characters we love with classic art and classic story telling. That way those of us who want the characters as they once were can have them again. Let's have a Modern Marvel, like we have now I guess but let's stop the constant new #1's and crap like that.

I'm picking up on a vibe that some people do not like the characters the way they are now so why not come out with a line of books that have the characters how they were back then? I have no idea how good an idea this is but Marvel could make the attempt to do something like this.

I like this idea.

I'd like that. Pick a period where the characters could believably be in their original time period and style of story-telling and just say that is the original reality and do stories there. Meanwhile, reboot the current main Marvel all you want. The "side universe" that is really the original universe doesn't have to be a big deal with a lot of comics in it, just so long as it features all the original characters once in a while and continues their stories.

Yes please.

[Habis]

Yes and no. Let's have a Classic Marvel, all the old characters we love with classic art and classic story telling. That way those of us who want the characters as they once were can have them again. Let's have a Modern Marvel, like we have now I guess but let's stop the constant new #1's and crap like that.

I'm picking up on a vibe that some people do not like the characters the way they are now so why not come out with a line of books that have the characters how they were back then? I have no idea how good an idea this is but Marvel could make the attempt to do something like this.

I said some time ago that I would like to read some "retro-futurist" Marvel Universe. The heroes would live in the 60s-70s, and the technology would be that of the Sci-Fi written at the time. Not mobile phones, but bulky videophones; not notebooks or Internet, but bulky computers, each containing the sum of all human knowledge; not teleworking, but flying cars; not cable TV, but settlements on the Moon...etc.

For more fun, the aliens should have mobile phones, Internent, notebook computers...etc., and Earth's heroes would be in awe of those.

[Jack Flag]

I don't follow a lot of current Marvel though I'm going back through the old Iron-Man stuff and working my way toward the present on Marvel Digital Unlimited. I understand the need for updates. Example: Tony Stark became Iron-Man in Afghanistan in the early part of the first decade of the 21st century rather than in Vietnam in 1963. Though, personally, since we accept all sorts of genre absurdities such as a man hiding his identity by putting on or taking off a pair of glasses, or hiding his identity even from those who know him personally in both identities by wearing a mask, and endless others, simply ignoring the realities of time passing and saying it happened when, where and how it happened and ignoring the realities of the passage of time in the real world in favor of super hero comics existing in a sort of timeless realm is no less realistic than any of the other genre conventions we accept. At the very least, it's a far better solution than DC throwing out the histories of their characters every couple of decades or partially throwing them out which is even worse. It also spares us comedy routines like, "It was really Hydra, not the Cold War".

But, that said, the updates, saying things happened more recently, isn't the problem for me although I found a story where someone had to explain to Tony Stark what the nation was like in the 1960s to be something I had to think of as an alternate reality story and not the main MU Stark. It's when the personalities of characters are rewritten to the point that it's not even that character anymore. Stark is one example, where his whole personality is drastically different from what it once was to the point where I find myself thinking I'd like to see a big finale where they tell what finally happened in the life of the original Stark (whatever era they set it in) before they continue this alternate Stark that now exists. But then again, since it would be the current Marvel writers doing it, it would have little feeling of being the original Stark.

Bottom line: rather than reboot and throw out all vestige of Marvel's beginnings in favor of some of the current versions with no moral high ground, I'd prefer they at least have some tenuous connection to their established histories.

That's not even to say I don't like a lot of the current stuff because I do like a lot of it. But it does feel as if it's an alternate reality with only an alleged connection to who the characters once were.

From a business standpoint they should just start over for characters based on the movies. Drax would have to change from being a human whose the dead zombie father of Moondragon to an alien thirsting for revenge and finding a new family. Everyone wanting to read a Guardian book that saw the movie would be turned off that the comic version of the character is so different. This is not me wanting them to change but it is inevitable that the money making movie characters over take the convoluted origins of the paper comic books.

[skyvolt2000]

The main Batman title is doing insanely well, but even other Bat-titles are in pretty good shape. From the December Top 300 Comic Books list (which is basically what copies Diamond supplies to comic book shops), you had:
1st = BATMAN #37 - 113,255 copies
4th = BATMAN ANNUAL #3 - 81,396 copies
11th = HARLEY QUINN #13 - 68,102 copies
13th = HARLEY QUINN HOLIDAY SPECIAL #1 - 63,465 copies
17th = ROBIN RISES ALPHA #1 - 57,990 copies
19th = DETECTIVE COMICS #37 - 54,953 copies
20th = BATMAN AND ROBIN #37 - 53,543 copies
26th = BATMAN ETERNAL #35 - 48,999 copies
27th = BATMAN ETERNAL #36 - 48,683 copies
28th = BATMAN ETERNAL #37 - 48,083 copies
29th = BATMAN ETERNAL #38 - 48,035 copies
30th = BATMAN ETERNAL #39 - 47,782 copies
33rd = BATGIRL #37 - 45,060 copies
34th = BATMAN SUPERMAN #17 - 44,714 copies

Now, how many of those copies were actually bought by readers vs. how many extra copies comic book shops didn't sell but still have may be another question.

It's a case of store ordering too many books.

Notice who is not on that list Batwoman, NIghtwing/Grayson, Catwoman & Batwing. Batwing got an extended stay over a TON of books that sold more and was so ignored once the first one left-even Batman fan sties ignored it.

I've heard store owner complain that there are too many Batman books because once you get past the subscribers and the few who do buy the books-you got a TON of those suckers unsold. We have comic shows here in Dallas (once coming this Saturday). Batman books are there in BULK (including new once that come out that week) for a dollar.

The books that are succeeding are the ones that suffered the least amount of damage.

Notice Miles Morales outlast all the teen books except Teen Titans.
Falcon is having the push Cyborg should have had.
Storm has a book that Vixen should had.
Ms Marvel gets recommended over all the DC female lead books.
Show me the Marvel character that screwed over as BAD as Static.

I don't see Marvel rebooting because you would be tossing out Ms Marvel, Captain Falcon, Lady Thor and who knows who else. Now do I see some things being undone? Yes. Like the original New Warriors roster coming back. Namor returns. BP's homeland is never flooded. The BP & Storm marriage get redone in a way that everyone is happy.

[Grapeweasel]

Right after they name ME CEO.

[skyvolt2000]

From a business standpoint they should just start over for characters based on the movies. Drax would have to change from being a human whose the dead zombie father of Moondragon to an alien thirsting for revenge and finding a new family. Everyone wanting to read a Guardian book that saw the movie would be turned off that the comic version of the character is so different. This is not me wanting them to change but it is inevitable that the money making movie characters over take the convoluted origins of the paper comic books.

If comics were more available in regular stores. I could go with that. However folks have enough common sense to understand the movie verse and the comic versus are 2 different universe.

I mean Star Trek fans understand that.
GI Joe fans understand that.
Transformer fans understand that.
Sonic the Hedgehog fans understand that.

Once you try to tie all that together-everybody is held hostage.
And don't forget Marvel doesn't control all their movies-(FF, X-Men & Spider-Man).

What if Spider-Man 3 or a cartoon has Miles as the main Spider-Man and don't forget FF features a black Johnny. Will the comic side get rid Peter and the white Johnny?

[Jack Flag]

If comics were more available in regular stores. I could go with that. However folks have enough common sense to understand the movie verse and the comic versus are 2 different universe.

I mean Star Trek fans understand that.
GI Joe fans understand that.
Transformer fans understand that.
Sonic the Hedgehog fans understand that.

Once you try to tie all that together-everybody is held hostage.
And don't forget Marvel doesn't control all their movies-(FF, X-Men & Spider-Man).

What if Spider-Man 3 or a cartoon has Miles as the main Spider-Man and don't forget FF features a black Johnny. Will the comic side get rid Peter and the white Johnny?

I have been reading comics since the late 70s in grade school. I know that and you know that but the regular public does not. I have a brother in his mid twenties who knows Marvel only from cartoons and movies and video games and he finds the paper comic books unreadable - his canon is the movies and not the comics. He assumes the movies match the comics - he is OK with minor variations like Blade not being British anymore - but major ones are a stumbling block.

And PS: Star Trek fans invented adhering to canon. They were not OK with changing the canon at all so that is why the first modern Star trek had to be a time travel tale that re-booted the universe. It worked for one movie - the Khan re-make was sort of flat and disappointing to the point it is holding back Star Trek 3 and I hear talks of how Star Trek should go back to being a weekly TV show.

And I was talking about what marvel would logically do from a business standpoint. Marvel would leave alone or sabotage properties they don't control the movie rights for until they can get them back. For properties they do control Marvel will try and make the paper comic books match the movies.

It is happening right now...In the Guardians comic Drax and Groot is now written more like their movie characters - Groot was an asshole - now he is a sweet creature offering hugs. Drax's origin of being the dead human father of Moondragon brought back to life as a zombie to kill Thanos is ignored and his character is now more like the laconic movie version of Drax.

Tony Stark/Iron Man is now a wisecracker like the movies which was not how he was historically written. Comic book Tony Stark is a copy of Downey's movie version - complete with updated facial hair.

So like it or not the comic books eventually will match the movie versions as much as possible. So there is a silent re-boot already happening.