Here we go again. JL Atlantis DVD SPOILER

[Lexrules]

WTF

Once again they have Superman kill. First he cuts off tentacles of a sea creature with his heat vision but then he decides to Kill the creature by burying it in tons of rocks pretty much crushing it alive. Is this really how people in the industry see Superman today as a character that needs to kill instead of doing a actual Superman thing and finding a better way of subduing the creature without killing it.

Adult oriented cartoon of not, your still sending the wrong message of what Superman is all about.

[Vanguard-01]

So, Superman killed a non-sentient animal that was threatening other people's lives.

How is that any different than when he smashes a killer robot? Animals aren't people. Killing them isn't murder.

[daBronzeBomma]

Do you see the creature actually die? Or is this a SUPERMAN II deal (theater version: Supes & Lois straight-up MURDERED the de-powered Zod & Non & Ursa by knocking/throwing them to their deaths with NO follow-up; home version = arctic police arresting them on a deleted scene ... I never count deleted scenes b/c they were NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH to make the initial cut).

Plus, Superman doesn't value ALL life, otherwise he'd be a wholly outspoken pro-lifer on abortion ... and he sure ain't that. Plus, he'll wipe out bacteria without a second thought (and pretty much does every other time he uses his heat vision in open air). He only values clearly sapient life.

[Lexrules]

Do you see the creature actually die? Or is this a SUPERMAN II deal (theater version: Supes & Lois straight-up MURDERED the de-powered Zod & Non & Ursa by knocking/throwing them to their deaths with NO follow-up; home version = arctic police arresting them on a deleted scene ... I never count deleted scenes b/c they were NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH to make the initial cut).

Plus, Superman doesn't value ALL life, otherwise he'd be a wholly outspoken pro-lifer on abortion ... and he sure ain't that. Plus, he'll wipe out bacteria without a second thought (and pretty much does every other time he uses his heat vision in open air). He only values clearly sapient life.

You see him burn off the creatures tentacles in which the creature screams in pain then you see him completely bury the creature under tons of Rock.

[neonrideraryeh]

Superman has fought and killed giant monsters before. They aren't people and don't count towards Superman's no kill policy. /thread

[DochaDocha]

I thought that burying the creature under the rocks was supposed to be one of those intentionally ambiguous things of whether or not the creature was dead. In fact, I thought the rock burying was specifically so that they didn't have to show something such as Superman bludgeoning the thing to death, or using himself as a living projectile firing through the creature's head repeatedly. In real life, I'm sure burying a creature under rubble like that would quite possibly be lethal, but comic book violence rules that nobody ever dies from blunt force trauma*.

For that matter, I don't think Black Manta is dead, either. With these comic book characters, you have to see the corpse rot into a carcass before they're really dead.

*Except, ironically, Superman.

[ekrolo2]

I thought that burying the creature under the rocks was supposed to be one of those intentionally ambiguous things of whether or not the creature was dead. In fact, I thought the rock burying was specifically so that they didn't have to show something such as Superman bludgeoning the thing to death, or using himself as a living projectile firing through the creature's head repeatedly. In real life, I'm sure burying a creature under rubble like that would quite possibly be lethal, but comic book violence rules that nobody ever dies from blunt force trauma*.

For that matter, I don't think Black Manta is dead, either. With these comic book characters, you have to see the corpse rot into a carcass before they're really dead.

*Except, ironically, Superman.

That Manta could be Manta senior and his son, the current BM in the comics has a grudge against Arthur for him killing his father so he could still be dead but the Black Manta mantle may pass on to his son.

[confusiongrows]

First of all, this film was pretty poor.

Secondly, I know Superman will kill monsters and animals threatening him, but in my opinion the situation in ToA felt like it didn't call for a coup de grace on the trench monster. I don't know, I'm not all that bothered about watching it again to find out.

I had a bigger complaint with the final battle, in which most of the League seem to be using non-lethal means to fight Orm's Atlanteans, Superman included (as far as I can tell) but Wonder Woman and Mera are cutting through them like butter. This makes no sense given that the Atlantean troops are all being duped by Orm, why would Mera kill her own people in a situation like that instead of trying to keep them alive?

But if we're going to pick at this kind of thing we're going to be doing it for a long time. The film is just too undercooked and forgettable to give much attention to all of the flaws in it. If I do feel like doing so I'll go the main thread on the DC forum.

[Lax]

Good old fashion self defense.

[Lexrules]

Good old fashion self defense.

Superman would rather die himself then take another life. At least the Superman I always looked up to. What's the point of having a Superman when you take everything that is Super and special about the character out.

[DochaDocha]

In retrospect, it probably would've been a good compromise for all fans if Superman simply beat up on the beast for a little, and then the thing got intimidated and scuttled away like a cowardly puppy. Would've been funnier, too.

[Lax]

Superman would rather die himself then take another life. At least the Superman I always looked up to. What's the point of having a Superman when you take everything that is Super and special about the character out.

I suppose I don't feel comfortable holding him to a different standard than everybody else just because he is Superman. Logically that opens up a big can of worms.

Retreat was an option for the creature and it wouldn't take it. If the creature insists on trying to kill Superman, his girlfriend, his friends and their best hope of stopping a war with the least amount of bloodshed... I have no issue with putting it down.

Eat something else, predators are at least smart enough to recognize when their prey is more trouble than it's worth.

[neonrideraryeh]

First of all, this film was pretty poor.

Secondly, I know Superman will kill monsters and animals threatening him, but in my opinion the situation in ToA felt like it didn't call for a coup de grace on the trench monster. I don't know, I'm not all that bothered about watching it again to find out.

I had a bigger complaint with the final battle, in which most of the League seem to be using non-lethal means to fight Orm's Atlanteans, Superman included (as far as I can tell) but Wonder Woman and Mera are cutting through them like butter. This makes no sense given that the Atlantean troops are all being duped by Orm, why would Mera kill her own people in a situation like that instead of trying to keep them alive?

But if we're going to pick at this kind of thing we're going to be doing it for a long time. The film is just too undercooked and forgettable to give much attention to all of the flaws in it. If I do feel like doing so I'll go the main thread on the DC forum.

I liked the film but I did find it weird that Mera was chopping up her own people to such a degree. The Atlanteans were tricked and once they knew it, they stopped working with Orm. So Mera killing them seemed a bit much, especially with other less lethal methods used by the League (I love GL's big vacuum, I wish that was in the comic).

[Triple J]

To folks saying that Mera was killing her own people...that isn't exactly true. She is a xebel warrior and they hate atlanteans.

Of course, that hasn't been explained in the movie. They didn't go into much detail on Mera.

As for the original post....if you are going to include the monster..well you have to include all life, which includes bacteria, virus to smaller creatures.

Superman wouldn't be able to use any of his powers...heck, he wouldn't be able to live even.

We all kill different forms of life everyday (directly and indirectly by being part of a society) unintentionally.

[Guy1]

I suppose I don't feel comfortable holding him to a different standard than everybody else just because he is Superman. Logically that opens up a big can of worms.

Retreat was an option for the creature and it wouldn't take it. If the creature insists on trying to kill Superman, his girlfriend, his friends and their best hope of stopping a war with the least amount of bloodshed... I have no issue with putting it down.

Eat something else, predators are at least smart enough to recognize when their prey is more trouble than it's worth.