When did Batman evolve into the modern master planner?

[Dr.Octagon]

Not according to this (I haven't read the old JLA issues, so I can't tell for sure).



However the master planner and Batgod as seen later on is to different things. Yes Batgod is a master planer but Batgod can easily be a master planner with out being a Batgod. Batgod is more less taking all Batman's abilities and take them into overdrive.

Ok so to simplify matters.. batman and black panther both started to be written batgod style at around the same time? Circa 1997-98? Weird coincidence?

[Tupiaz]

Ok so to simplify matters.. batman and black panther both started to be written batgod style at around the same time? Circa 1997-98? Weird coincidence?

I haven't read any of the Christopher Priest Black Panther Stories so first of all I can't say if BP is a Batgod and second where Priest got his inspiration from. Grant Morrison's JLA run did start in 1996 however the Tower of Babel story line wasn't released until 2000 which is in general seen as of the biggest Batgod stories ever and where it is most evident. I'm not saying Batgod wasn't created earlier simply that Tower of Babel is one of the best know Batgod stories.

[Deniz Camp]

I'd peg it at Dark Knight Returns, actually. Previously he was very grounded, but DKR was the slow start of "He's got all the bases covered".

[Tupiaz]

I'd peg it at Dark Knight Returns, actually. Previously he was very grounded, but DKR was the slow start of "He's got all the bases covered".

Was that a comment for my post. Because I don't see him as Batgod. He is old, tired and reckless and even needs help from others (Green Arrow and Carrie Kelley).

[Nite-Wing]

For some people Batgod is batman operating on anything besides street level.
Of course that's ridiculous but for some people Batman is strictly a street level character and his competence shoots up when he deals with things outside of gotham and his villains

[Tupiaz]

For some people Batgod is batman operating on anything besides street level.
Of course that's ridiculous but for some people Batman is strictly a street level character and his competence shoots up when he deals with things outside of gotham and his villains

And why is that stupid.
Batman was created as street level character and his enemies are street enemies it makes senses to have him in his own pocket universe and don't let him do big universes stories As Denny O'Neil puts out in this interview (at about 4.20):

[Nite-Wing]

Well for one the character is constantly evolving
Batman is now a versatile character and can be presented in so many different ways and they all fit the character and ring true
If Batman could only be envisioned as how he was created he wouldn't be popular today he'd simply be a pulp
That's why its stupid needlessly constraining the character and taking away anything that might be interesting when its been proven the character is much bigger than that.

[Tupiaz]

Well for one the character is constantly evolving
Batman is now a versatile character and can be presented in so many different ways and they all fit the character and ring true
If Batman could only be envisioned as how he was created he wouldn't be popular today he'd simply be a pulp
That's why its stupid needlessly constraining the character and taking away anything that might be interesting when its been proven the character is much bigger than that.

Sure the character is evolving and never said that it wasn't however there is a difference between evolving and radically change what a character is. However all his connection is within Gotham. You claim that it rings true when he is in space yet many readers and creators don't feel that way. As for now it is now just a claim you have made with no argumentation behind it.

The problem is that you see a space adventure as being bigger when it can in fact just be different. It is not about hurting the character but tell the best story with the character and the is for Batman's purpose still in Gotham.

[Francisco]

The Black Panther was a master planner since his inception. In his First appearance back in the 60's he defeated the Fantastic Four with planning. It was Roy Thomas who then turned him into a jungle acrobat without gadgets. A well written Black Panther should behave like a heroic non malevolent Dr. Doom in the body of Captain America.

[Tupiaz]

He started plan more in the 70s I assume. When Denny O'Neil started writing him.

And Black Panther was a fairly invisible and forgettable character before Priest wrote his solo series in 98, and he made him like Batman with all the gadgets and everything....which was ridiculous but it worked and gained lots of readers.

I can't find any information about Denny O'Neil writing Black Panther. Could say which issues he wrote? Besides didn't Denny leave Marvel in the late 60's to work for DC?

Have you by the way read Don McGregor's Black Panther?

[adkal]

I can't find any information about Denny O'Neil writing Black Panther. Could say which issues he wrote? Besides didn't Denny leave Marvel in the late 60's to work for DC?

LifeIsILL's first sentence was in reference to Batman and your 'master-planner' question, not Black Panther.

[Tupiaz]

LifeIsILL's first sentence was in reference to Batman and your 'master-planner' question, not Black Panther.

It isn't my question nor topic. I hadn't even made a post before LifeIsILL's post. However it make sense that he should be Batman not Blank Panther.