What's 'Important'?

[klinton]

I see an awful lot of the use of the word 'important' in reference to stories, characters and books around here.

What does that even mean? Seriously.

Do people seriously not enjoy a story or a character or a moment if Marvel hasn't decreed that issue X is part of the next major 'event'? Are people actively reading titles only because they've been told it's 'important'?

I find it odd, in a world full of fictional people - where nothing is actually of any import - that readers would actually view the books they read, and make thier selections based on something so...ephemeral.

What does 'important' have to do with anything when the status quo for any major 'event' is passe before the 'event' even peters out, and we're being hyped for the next.

I dunno. Perhaps the beer has the better of me at the moment, but I've noticed a lot of this sort of qualifying on here tonight, and I'm a little confused.

It's all 'important'. That offhand moment in C-list book Z can serve as inspiration for a plot thread over in A-list book A. That's the magic of a 'shared universe'. Not this 'only A-list book A matters' rubbish. /shrug.

[resipsaloquitur]

...this thread is going to be a can of worms.

I admit that there's a certain relativism in what's "important" and what's not, particularly where the notion of the "personal canon" has grown stronger in fandom. Still, you'll see recurrences of what fandom at large considers to be "important" over many years. Sure, there is stuff that's important right now--everything that Dan Slott is writing is probably important at this moment--but it may end up being a footnote in the broader Spider-Man history in a few decades. (Probably not--I just pulled Slott's name off the top of my head.)

If you want the long view of what's important, here's my thoughts. I'll use the Hulk as an example, since I've been reading him more than any other Marvel character.

- The origin and initial stories of a character/team. Pretty much all of your early Stan Lee/Jack Kirby/etc. issues of a character are going to be important. I'll admit that there's varying degrees of importance even within those runs. The Hulk's origin issue is important. The issue where the Hulk fights a Russian who's impersonating a space alien probably isn't. (This happened.)

- A prominent creator's run. A lot of people view characters through who's worked on them. Peter David's Hulk is considered a classic. So are John Byrne's Fantastic Four, Walt Simonson's Daredevil, Garth Ennis' Punisher...etc. Conversely, some creators' runs on a character haven't been memorable and are pretty much never referenced again. The Hulk has had short runs by Joe Casey, John Byrne, Daniel Way, and Jason Aaron which might be referenced here or there, but really have no prominence in the "must have" recommendations.

- Important characters are introduced. There's probably a good selection of issues where a prominent character is introduced to the main character's mythos. The first issue of the Hulk gave us Bruce, Betty, Rick, and General Ross, so that's like 90 percent of the Hulk's characters right there. However, later issues introduced the Leader, the Abomination, and even Wolverine. People are probably going to reference back to those stories a lot.

- Notable events happen to the character. This could be a character's death, a wedding, or some other shift in the status quo. For the Hulk, this would probably be the introduction of the merged Hulk in #377, or the whole Planet Hulk story.

- The Mass-Media adaptions rely on it. Mmmmm...the Hulk hasn't had the best luck with mass-media adaptions, but many superhero films do either borrow directly from specific comics or at least nod to them. For example, the Dark Knight movies borrowed from Batman: The Long Halloween, Year One, and No Man's Land. Doing so is probably an acknowledgement to the prominence and staying power of those stories, whether you enjoyed them or not.

Anybody else?

[gregyo]

This is about Uncanny Avengers, isn't it? No need to mince words here, klinton.

[klinton]

This is about Uncanny Avengers, isn't it? No need to mince words here, klinton.

Uncanny Avengers is 'important' just for being awesome. So, no. I actually don't think there are any UA discussions active this evening, so I don't think that's where I was coming from.

[tsaimelemoni]

I think this can be hard to answer, it's all relative.

Absolutely, at a base level, none of this matters. However, I think it's common for us to assign value to our actions/habits. We all have characters/circumstamces that we want to matter, and it can honestly be difficult to see the value of what other's see as important over our own bias.

Afterall, if nothing is important, why waste time on it? Same goes if everything is important, imo. Placing importance on characters and events makes reading these stories personally valuable and fulfilling.

If anything people (myself included) simply need to understand that what they value isn't always what others do, and vice versa, and that it's ok. In other words, I suppose it's all in the eye of the beholder.

If I've missed your point, sorry! It's an interesting and valid question, though.

[Tiamatty]

It's something that bugs me, too. It doesn't matter how generally weak events are, they get strong sales because they're viewed as "Important." Meanwhile, all sorts of well-written books wind up having bad sales, because they're "Not Important." X-Factor fell into that, where people would rather read Matt Fraction's weak Uncanny X-Men run - and complain about how lame it is - based on it being Uncanny X-Men rather than grab the always-great X-Factor.

Personally, I don't give a **** about "Importance." I couldn't care less if a story is going to have huge repercussions felt in a variety of comics, even comics I'm reading. If the story's not good, I'm not putting down money for it, and it's that simple. I buy the books I genuinely enjoy reading - about $100 a month. I'm not going to spend money on a book I'm not really enjoying. Comics are simply too damned expensive a hobby for that sort of bullshit.

Edit: It occurs to me that Uncanny Avengers might actually work as an example. There's no shortage of people who complain a lot about that book. But they keep buying it. Why? Because they've been led to believe that it's an Important book. It's one that Matters, and so they have to buy it, whether they enjoy it or not. Same with Avengers - there are people who buy that book even though they hate it. Same with Uncanny X-Men. Same with the event books. Meanwhile, fantastic books like Kathryn Immonen's Journey Into Mystery, or Sam Humphries' Avengers AI, get **** sales and end too soon, because they're not "Important." And people would rather waste money on a book they don't enjoy than spend it on a book that's just doing its own thing without any real impact on any other books.

It's a bizarre, stupid attitude that some people have.

[jackolover]

Important to me is the Marvel Universe. ULtimate universe, MC2, Origin, 1+2, most of the x-verse, are unimportant, because they generally don't impact on the MU, so I just read the books I like in the MU. The first runs on the super heroes from the 60's are important to defining character, but everything between the 70's-2003, I find unimportant. But that's just my personal preference. Other people find that era there most important.

I think you have to pick the things that you give weight too in discussions about the stories. If they are forgettable, then to you, they are unimportant.

[HaveAtThee]

Everything has been unimportant in the last, oh, 20 years or so. Rarely anything ever changes with the major characters.

[Tiamatty]

Everything has been unimportant in the last, oh, 20 years or so. Rarely anything ever changes with the major characters.

I would disagree with nothing changing - Cyclops today is in a very different place from Cyclops 20 years ago. The X-Men, in general, underwent a huge shift less than 15 years ago - Morrison's New X-Men opened up the school, which had a huge impact, and even WatXM, with the JGS's large number of students, is a direct result of Morrison filling the school.

For the Avengers, well, when has that franchise ever had major changes? The line-ups change, sure, and they still do. But the characters tend to have only temporary changes. Iron Man will always return to his default. Captain America, Thor, Hawkeye - they'll never have permanent changes. But there's always lots of temporary changes going on. Some work, some don't; that's always been the case, and I could point to plenty of examples of older stuff that was bad.

[Alvarez]

Everything is important up until it's forgotten or replaced/changed with something else.
Be it a storyline, character, arc, item, etc...

We make things things important by reading and enjoying them.

[just another user]

When it comes to super hero comics, hardly anything is important. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy them though.

[Kuwagaton]

Tiamatty said a good number of things quite well, particularly the fact that people would rather complain about a big title than support a smaller one. And it's unfortunate that when a good book comes along, the first thing many people think is "yeah this won't last a year." Most people who think that way probably don't pick up a single issue.

I feel a disconnect to most big two readers because I don't get this mindset, and these days when I see Marvel solicits about "importance" I can't tell if they're coddling or mocking.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

Everything is important up until it's forgotten or replaced/changed with something else.
Be it a storyline, character, arc, item, etc...

We make things things important by reading and enjoying them.

When it comes to super hero comics, hardly anything is important. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy them though.

True. But being consistent story and characterization wise is very Important. And the cavalier manner in which other peoples plots are stepped on or disregarded is like picking away at the foundation of your own house.

[Diamond]

Tiamatty said a good number of things quite well, particularly the fact that people would rather complain about a big title than support a smaller one. And it's unfortunate that when a good book comes along, the first thing many people think is "yeah this won't last a year." Most people who think that way probably don't pick up a single issue.

I feel a disconnect to most big two readers because I don't get this mindset, and these days when I see Marvel solicits about "importance" I can't tell if they're coddling or mocking.

You are not alone, bro. I feel the same way. The concept of "importance" is just sooo ridiculous to me that I just can't help but laugh at whoever buys comics they do not like. And DC fans that think every event will stay in continuity, those are the worst. xD

[Vic Vega]

One of the legacies of Bendis' Avengers run was that certain books mattered more than others in the ongoing Marvel Universe wide mega plot at the time, be it House of M, Secret War, World War Hulk or Dark Reign.

With Marvel pubishing as many books as they are for 3.99 a pop, a book's importance is going to be a selling point.

There is only so much leeway a little quirky, individualistic book that is 3.99 can get.

And if you are a retailer, you'd take even a harder line about this kind of thing.