X-Men in the 90's awesome?

[Jiminy_Cricket]

Peter n guyen

Not sure what Wolverine is doing with his wandering hand whilst looking at Jean...

[grinningdemon]

Not sure what Wolverine is doing with his wandering hand whilst looking at Jean...

Mostly it looks like his pissing off Storm.

[Tazirai]

(Just looked it up...the above image is from Uncanny X-Men #246....ironically Jim Lee's first ever credited X-Men gig...one can tell from the way the feet are skillfully hidden from view. I might be from the ADHD generation, but at least I can spot a Lee from a mile away. ;p )

Here's the thing about the era of the "Superstar Marvel Artists" it was dead by 1993, when both Lee and Leifeld left for "greener pastures". Oddly enough, if Claremont had just stayed where he was and not ticked off Bob Harris, he might have had the X-Men back by 1995. The truth is a lot of Claremont's work getting pretty stale by the 90's - at one point he'd written three mind control archs after the other. I think he needed a change and even he knew it. Excalibur would've been a great place for him if he'd decided to stay.

Also, Lee was pinch hitting for Marc Silvestri on certain X-Men issues by 1989 - so some of the Aussie period, could've been Lee, just not being credited (he is actual credited on some). Marc Silvestri, weirdly enough was one of the "super seven", but X-men fans seems to give him a free pass they don't give Lee. (This also casts new light on Claremont's claims that he couldn't work with the new young artists, because they were too slow and wanted too much control - he seemed to have worked happily with both Silvestri and Lee in the late 80's and it was never a problem.)

As for Scott Lobdell, I urge you to read his earlier X-men stuff. Uncanny #303, as I mentioned, most people confuse with Claremont. At the start of his X-run, Lobdell pretty much tried to sound like Claremont, because he knew that was what fans wanted. His GenX run has some of the most original stuff ever done in Marvel comics - it's a teen comic, but his not talking down to the audience (like Hama), his expertly moves the audience through the complex story and the characters, sprinkling little hints about their past through the years, much like Claremont did. In all fairness, it seems he and Bachalo had full creative reign on GenX, so they could go as dark and indie as they wanted.

I find people who hate the 90's either do so because their favourite character got moved out of the main X books (Kitty, Nightcrawler, Dazzler, etc), their favs got altered (Psylocke), or that they never could get over Claremont leaving. And I get it, all these things are totally valid reasons for not getting into the 90's. I have a similar problem with the middle '00.

The bigger problem the 90's X-Men had was some terrible calls made by Bob Harris later on. For example, moving Scott Lobdell permanently off GenX to mainly focus on the X-Men again. He'd done a fine job standing in for Claremont years before, but when he came back things just weren't the same and you got the feeling he longed for the freedom he had on GenX. Other bad Bob calls: placing Larry Hama on GenX, leaving Hama on Gen X when it all went south, letting X-Force just slowly die off, not fixing whatever was going on in X-Factor, not placing more focus on Excalibur which it deserved, starting the trend of writer shuffling, willingly letting writers do shocking reveals of characters back stories with no actual planning, (Gambit, Joseph, the twins) just to get the sales figures up.

In all fairness to Bob Harris, he wasn't solely to blame, the other X-editors are as responsible as he was. Marvel was starting the new "universe crossover" era and that's where the wheels really fell off the X-cart. The late 90's wasn't a good time to wear the X. Plots got terrible convoluted to tie into the next "BIG" universe altering event, page counts starting going down because of the rise in printing costs and the move to glossy paper stock, the comic collector bubble burst, the audience was shifting to other things and Marvel didn't know how to compete.

I often see people placing all the blame on either Lee or Lobdell - they've kinda become fan shorthand for reasons not to like the 90's, but Lee started in the much lauded 80's and was gone by the early 90's (some of Joe Madureira and Andy Smith's 90s stuff is much worse), and Lobdell gets blamed for the whole era, when fellow writers like Fabian Nicieza, Mark Waid, Larry Hama, Leifeld (lets not forget this "renaissance man" wrote as well) and even Claremont (the mastermind behind The Twelve) got away with murder...

But it just comics at the end of the day and I just want a quality product - we had some awesome years in both the 80's and the 90's, lets just enjoy those and ignore things like Schism, BotA and dorky, over-powered, plot device kid of the week.

I blame many of them for thse shortfalls of the 90's. Especially Nicienza. We've had discussions before, and he's a good guy and admitted his faults with that time frame.

[Innocent Bystander]

As for Scott Lobdell, I urge you to read his earlier X-men stuff. Uncanny #303, as I mentioned, most people confuse with Claremont. At the start of his X-run, Lobdell pretty much tried to sound like Claremont, because he knew that was what fans wanted. His GenX run has some of the most original stuff ever done in Marvel comics - it's a teen comic, but his not talking down to the audience (like Hama), his expertly moves the audience through the complex story and the characters, sprinkling little hints about their past through the years, much like Claremont did. In all fairness, it seems he and Bachalo had full creative reign on GenX, so they could go as dark and indie as they wanted.

Credit where it's due - Lobdell on Generation X was really, really good. But for me, for #303... I'm sorry, it just felt off to me. Heavy handed and overly soap opera-ish. (Which, yes, I know that hero comics are pretty much Soap Operas in tights)

I find people who hate the 90's either do so because their favourite character got moved out of the main X books (Kitty, Nightcrawler, Dazzler, etc), their favs got altered (Psylocke), or that they never could get over Claremont leaving. And I get it, all these things are totally valid reasons for not getting into the 90's. I have a similar problem with the middle '00.

I will absolutely agree with this. Although I loved Kitty and Kurt in Excalibur, my favorite character is Colossus, and he pretty much had his character assassinated in the 90's, between Lobdell and Ellis.

[grinningdemon]

I will absolutely agree with this. Although I loved Kitty and Kurt in Excalibur, my favorite character is Colossus, and he pretty much had his character assassinated in the 90's, between Lobdell and Ellis.

As far as character assassination goes, I think Colossus got it worse in the 2000s.

[AgentFelix]

It's really not great. In 2013 I did a read through of what I qualified as the two biggest titles dating from 1986-1999. So it was Uncanny #199-#380 and X-Factor #1-#70 then switching to X-Men #1-#99. The early 90's stuff was fun, but a definite quality dip from the end of Claremont's run. Although those early issues of X-Factor were a huge slog to get through. The Lee issues were fun, the Nicieza stuff was pretty good. The Lobdell issues were pretty painful outside of the "down" issues, where things just happened around the mansion (Jubilee teaching Professor X to rollerskate comes to mind). X-Cutioner's song, Fatal Attractions, Phalanx Covenant were all fun. Age of Apocalypse was amazing. Onslaught was pure shite, and any positive thoughts about it can be written off as pure nostalgia. The franchise nosedived after that. OZT was unrealized potential, the Kelly/Seagle runs were odd and the Davis run was a mess. The Twelve was a catastrophe.

Quick rundown version lol

[Ricochet Rita]

I precisely gave up X-Men in the 90's. That says it all :/ .

[ThiefHookUps]

After AoA, was there much else worth reading the rest of the decade in the X-team books? That was when I lost interest and wonder if I missed anything. When did this glut end? I was thinking around the time of the removal of Austen as an x-writer amd the creation of Astonishing X-Men, but that was 2004 so it must've been earlier than that, no?

[ThiefHookUps]

It's really not great. In 2013 I did a read through of what I qualified as the two biggest titles dating from 1986-1999. So it was Uncanny #199-#380 and X-Factor #1-#70 then switching to X-Men #1-#99. The early 90's stuff was fun, but a definite quality dip from the end of Claremont's run. Although those early issues of X-Factor were a huge slog to get through. The Lee issues were fun, the Nicieza stuff was pretty good. The Lobdell issues were pretty painful outside of the "down" issues, where things just happened around the mansion (Jubilee teaching Professor X to rollerskate comes to mind). X-Cutioner's song, Fatal Attractions, Phalanx Covenant were all fun. Age of Apocalypse was amazing. Onslaught was pure shite, and any positive thoughts about it can be written off as pure nostalgia. The franchise nosedived after that. OZT was unrealized potential, the Kelly/Seagle runs were odd and the Davis run was a mess. The Twelve was a catastrophe.

Quick rundown version lol

I wasn't nuts about X-Cutioner's Song besides the ending being so significant (I read it years after it was released) but this is pretty much my view of things too. Also, do any of you well-verse chaps know the word meaning "at the time"? Like in my first sentence I said "I read it years after it was released" but wanted to say "I didn't read it ____________" but I can't remember what the word is. Thanks!

[SoupStainedTie]

After AoA, was there much else worth reading the rest of the decade in the X-team books? That was when I lost interest and wonder if I missed anything. When did this glut end? I was thinking around the time of the removal of Austen as an x-writer amd the creation of Astonishing X-Men, but that was 2004 so it must've been earlier than that, no?

The Kelly/Seagle run of the late 90's, though short and uneven (mostly due to editorial interference), has some great moments. Though it's a little depressing to read, as it represents squandered potential. Perhaps if they were allowed to stick around and do their thing, we'd be in a better place today.

The late 90's John Francis Moore/Pollina (and later Cheung) X-Force was also a standout of the era. As was Joe Casey and Ladronn on Cable.

[Vegeta]

Getting ready to plop a chunk of dough on big 90's runs and curious to your thoughts on the stories.

How much dough are you going to "plop?" Most of the 90s issues can be found in the $1.00 bins. (And if you have a Used Book store you might even find them for .25 a piece!)

[Tazirai]

How much dough are you going to "plop?" Most of the 90s issues can be found in the $1.00 bins. (And if you have a Used Book store you might even find them for .25 a piece!)

Basically. I get 90's stuff if I need references for art, precisely from the cheapie bins.

[Venomous Mask]

[ThiefHookUps]

The Kelly/Seagle run of the late 90's, though short and uneven (mostly due to editorial interference), has some great moments. Though it's a little depressing to read, as it represents squandered potential. Perhaps if they were allowed to stick around and do their thing, we'd be in a better place today.

The late 90's John Francis Moore/Pollina (and later Cheung) X-Force was also a standout of the era. As was Joe Casey and Ladronn on Cable.

I'd forgotten about the Ladronn Cable. Those were pretty interesting books. I haven't read more than a few issues of that run of X-Force so I'll have to check some more out. Thanks!

[anthony_lynch15]

Heh.. Nostalgia maybe, but that's the team I started reading with... and I miss them. ^_^

Now if they all suddenly got a glimpse of their futures.. captions!:

Colossus:"Crap, I'm gonna go crazy a bunch of teams and find out my sister is soulless.... and I never put on pants."

Jean, staring at the back of Xavier's head: "Yeah... I quit."

Bobby: "No luck with women and future me is frosty Gandalf..... and I'm indestructible so can't even suicide out of this. Maybe I should hurry along that Ice Age thing."

Angel: "Phew... at least I stop being Blue."

Bishop: "What? .... I lose my mullet? Bastards! ..... oh yeah, and the child killing wrap is creepy too."

Wolverine eyeing Storm: "Heh.. I hit that."

Storm eyeing Wolvering: "I hit.... that?"

Cyclops: "Dduuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh..."

Beast: "I am never playing with Time Travel."

Psylocke staring at Cyclops: "What did I see in him? Oh right... just spiting Jean."

Jubilee: "Right.... gotta kill Wanda."

Gambit staring at Rogue in horror, "Magneto.... really?"

Rogue glaring at Xavier: "You can fix my powers THAT DAMN EASY?! And remind me to kill my alternate timeline selves for banging Magneto."

Professor Xavier: "Cyclops..... you're fired."

LMAO, this is class!