Loki: Agent of Asgard #10 spoliers

[asiea]

Thor is wong Loki never laughed thor also is his birth name NOT odinson

[asiea]

I think the people of asgard beat loki and he wants it to stop..then comes king loki and he says old loki will help him.

loki think about it perhaps he will give him his body.because he wants to be dead ,,Loki has enough..but someone saves him..or siege loki returns....and everything is just a Illusion...

[TheWinterSoldier]

Thor is wong Loki never laughed

Someone already addressed that upthread, and much better than I possibly could.

thor also is his birth name NOT odinson

He's also trying to figure out where he fits and what his identity is in all of this. The hammer says 'she who is worthy will possess the power of Thor', and now he is unworthy to wield it - it's not that that's no longer his name, but so much of his identity was tied up in the idea of being worthy, and if he doesn't have that, then who is he? Surely he doesn't even deserve to call himself 'Thor', and the like. He's hurt and ashamed and trying to figure out who he is without his hammer, and that it's power has been tied to his name so blatantly, it's not surprising that he might want to avoid it for any number of reasons.

[TheWinterSoldier]

I think the people of asgard beat loki and he wants it to stop..then comes king loki and he says old loki will help him.

loki think about it perhaps he will give him his body.because he wants to be dead ,,Loki has enough..but someone saves him..

I personally think this cover is suggesting a 'No Good Deed' moment for Loki once he's been pushed past the point of being able to take it. Aka rising back up and basically saying "You want me to be wicked, I'll be the wickedest *** *** you've ever set eyes on."

Whether or not that sticks is another matter entirely, and I don't think it will because he's got too much invested at this point to throw it all away. He has his temper tantrum, he cools down, and realizes that he really doesn't want to go down that path. It'll help him get back on his feet, but other than motivating him it'll be mostly talk.

[Habis]

I personally think this cover is suggesting a 'No Good Deed' moment for Loki once he's been pushed past the point of being able to take it. Aka rising back up and basically saying "You want me to be wicked, I'll be the wickedest *** *** you've ever set eyes on."

Whether or not that sticks is another matter entirely, and I don't think it will because he's got too much invested at this point to throw it all away. He has his temper tantrum, he cools down, and realizes that he really doesn't want to go down that path. It'll help him get back on his feet, but other than motivating him it'll be mostly talk.

I think pre-Siege Loki arranged things so that New Loki would recover his full power only when he surrendered and accepted to become the same again. That's what is happening in that image, his power returning.

Of course, pre-Siege Loki's plan has failed badly. He expected to be himself again, but in the body of a young, well-loved hero. Now he's back to square one, a reviled outcast hated by everybody and from who nobody expects anything but evil.

But there is another flaw in pre-Siege Loki's plan: He has a few friends who know the truth and are willing to give him a chance; Verity, the Young Avengers, Leah/Hela (who may remove his mask and speak with him face to face), and maybe even Sigurd and Lorelei...if those come to him and comfort him, he may very well forget about revenge and give goodness a try.

That would mean a total defeat both of pre-Siege Loki and of future King Loki. Of pre-Siege Loki because young Loki would be an heroic version of himself reviled by the Asgardians instead of a villanous Loki loved by the Asgardians. Of future King Loki, because the future would change and he would disappear.

[ImprobableQuestion]

I think there's something more to come from Verity's powers and the way she reacted to Loki's retelling. Sure Loki's belief is more truthiness than truth, but Verity's always known when Loki is lying, even to himself.

In other words there may be more of Kid Loki left than they realized.

[Raye]

I just want the next issue at this point because King Loki trapped Loki in these events for a reason. Everything happened in the order he put them in I think. Truth Wave, Inversion, possibly right down to Thor coming to Loki at that time to apologize and ask the question that Loki couldn't avoid answering that got Loki the beat down in the first place. It's even in Loki's thought dialogue right before he admits it. And he didnt see it coming until right then.

That's the real question, isn't it? What does King Loki gain from all this? While I am fairly certain Loki will have a temporary backslide after this, I really don't think it's permanent, and i don't think there's any way to think it would be, especially after seeing how Loki reacted in this issue. There isn't even a hint of him hating Thor despite what happened, he's just... sad. He wants his brother back. In issue 5, King Loki said that he was bringing about the future as soon as possible, so we have to assume some version of Thor finding out happened in the future, and he is just trying to speed up the process. But why?

The little bit of a talk they had before it all went to hell was pretty hard to read. Thor's life has been going pretty well for years, both in real and comic book time. Sure, he's had some hiccups here and there, but for the most part life has been going pretty good for Thor. And here he's been stripped of everything that he was before, and it seems like he's thinking, Well, at least I have my brother, who I love no matter what. And then that's taken from him too.

It's important to remember that Thor can't bring himself to actually kill him. Thor's getting so much hate from fans this issue, but in the end, he wasn't able to kill him.


We know that Loki wasn't supposed to be figth Red Skull. If he hadn't been at Doom's Castle, he wouldn't have been involved at all. The guy definitely had a plan to break Loki, and he succeeded.

True, but my thinking is that he needs to break before he can be rebuilt. Right up till now, his good relationship with Thor and Asgard was based on a lie, it was because of what Kid Loki did, and him filling Kid Loki's role. This was Siege Loki's plan, of course, because he knew he couldn't change on his own... but it's still not a REAL solution to the problem, it's just a patch job.

Also, what is Verity going to do? She doesn't know any other super heroes but the three who are now imprisoned in Asgard and Thor, who probably won't be answering any of her calls. Someone is going to have to help her, but who?

She doesn't, but he does. She is in his apartment. Maybe he left his phone? Look on it for superhero looking names, hello, Young Avengers? okay.. more wishful thinking probably, but I would like to see them... At least Billy and Teddy.

ps. this came up as I was listening to music, and I have decided it is a good theme song for the issue:



don't worry, no growling this time. I couldn't find a version with the lyrics on the video itself, but they are in the video description.

[cosmicjoke21]

My take on this is that he's not really a murderer either - because it was himself - but that's the way he sees it and thinks of it and how he interprets it. It's a personal truth rather than an empirical one. Think of how Verity reacts to his story in this issue: her reaction to his story is to say what amounts to "I think it's all in your head", or to take that further (to what I believe is the rational conculsion), 'this isn't a truth that holds up outside of your belief in it'.

It's possible her power doesn't hold up well to magic, but from what we've seen and what we've been told about it so far, I'd say this fits. Which might be how she's able to help him going on from this - she is still able to believe in his goodness and doesn't take him to be a murderer, no matter how he feels or what he believes about the matter.

This is exactly what I thought too. Verity's reaction here is extremely important, I think. The fact that she tells Loki that it sounds like it's all dreams and illusions in his head says a lot. Because Verity can see through any lie, including glamors and illusions. If she's telling Loki it's all in his head, then it probably is. And Ikol was nothing but a figment of Kid Loki's imagination. He was the part of himself he was in denial about, and him consuming Ikol at the end was really just Kid Loki accepting and acknowledging his past life and memories and experiences. I think maybe Verity's role in saving Loki, and in helping Thor to accept and love Loki again is going to be her making the both of them understand this. That Loki didn't really murder any child at all. Kid Loki WAS Loki, they're the same person, the same being, just different aspects of his personality. That's what makes Loki such an amazing character. He has so many facets to who he is.

[cosmicjoke21]

I personally think this cover is suggesting a 'No Good Deed' moment for Loki once he's been pushed past the point of being able to take it. Aka rising back up and basically saying "You want me to be wicked, I'll be the wickedest *** *** you've ever set eyes on."

Whether or not that sticks is another matter entirely, and I don't think it will because he's got too much invested at this point to throw it all away. He has his temper tantrum, he cools down, and realizes that he really doesn't want to go down that path. It'll help him get back on his feet, but other than motivating him it'll be mostly talk.

Yeah, I agree with this too. Which ties back into what I said about Asgard and Thor regretting their actions if they really hurt or punish Loki, because Loki's been truly trying his absolute hardest to be better, and this is a case of the Asgardian's instigating their own doom. They're condemning him for being wicked, and in the process, forcing him to be the very thing they claim to despise. Or they would be, if Loki gave in to what they want him to be. But I don't think Loki will. Loki will overcome it, eventually. But it's going to be so heartbreaking until he can.

[Post Monster]

True, but my thinking is that he needs to break before he can be rebuilt. Right up till now, his good relationship with Thor and Asgard was based on a lie, it was because of what Kid Loki did, and him filling Kid Loki's role.

It's interesting it's happening at the same time to Thor. He's being broken down as well.

[Post Monster]

This is exactly what I thought too. Verity's reaction here is extremely important, I think. The fact that she tells Loki that it sounds like it's all dreams and illusions in his head says a lot. Because Verity can see through any lie, including glamors and illusions. If she's telling Loki it's all in his head, then it probably is. And Ikol was nothing but a figment of Kid Loki's imagination. He was the part of himself he was in denial about, and him consuming Ikol at the end was really just Kid Loki accepting and acknowledging his past life and memories and experiences. I think maybe Verity's role in saving Loki, and in helping Thor to accept and love Loki again is going to be her making the both of them understand this. That Loki didn't really murder any child at all. Kid Loki WAS Loki, they're the same person, the same being, just different aspects of his personality. That's what makes Loki such an amazing character. He has so many facets to who he is.

Well it's obvious the truth that will save Loki isn't Gram, it's Verity. Gram is a truth sword that came from lying and deception, ie the old Loki way. Verity is a friend that came through Loki trying to change.

[Rosebunse]

OK, when did "Nerdki" get to be a thing? Seriously, did Loki fans have a meeting about that? Just looked it up on tumblr. Is it a tumblr thing?

I love the fandom right now. It's like we're all having the same PTSD flashback from JiM!

It does look like Loki is going to have to backspace a bit before he can get anywhere. And maybe some of what Verity said in this issue does make sense. Or she's just trying really hard for her friend. Loki is saying the truth as he knows it, but then again, he was created by Siege Loki with a specific set of instructions and it wouldn't make too much sense for Siege Loki to lie to him. Kid Loki would have probably been more willing to help if he thought he was just being mind wiped...maybe.

[Riimi]

I guess I'm in the minority in still regarding Loki and Kid Loki as two distinct entities. Like, the way I see it, they had the same base personality at one point (Kid Loki when he was first resurrected), then every event caused a separation. However, this really depends on how you regard how current Loki experienced Kid!Loki's actions as Ikol. If experiencing the actions passively can be considered to the decision making process, then Loki is a continuation of Kid!Loki. Personally, I think the decision making process is the most important part because of the exercise of free will; that is, asserting autonomy of self. Without this agency, personality is essentially meaningless. Thus, they are distinct, although there is an amount of similarity between them, the degree of which is arguable.

I wrote, of all things, a crazy math post about this, because of course I did. Deleted it for being incredibly obtuse. I just felt I should mention it because I spent more time than is reasonably sane on it. I probably spent more time than is reasonably insane on it, too. (What in the ten realms does any of this have to do with math? Absolutely nothing. I just try to math everything).

All that said, I could understand the scenario raised by others. If it happens in text or if we get Word of God, I'll accept it. Right now, I just think it's more interesting if he's not innocent. That he really did commit a horrible thing and is truly sorry about it. That, despite what he thinks, he really does have it in him to change. He doesn't have to let his past actions define him.

Now, if he is innocent, I'd honestly kinda prefer for him to end up evil. It would be a perfect tragedy of everyone's expectations fulfilling themselves. Not to mention, wondrously ironic, because they'd likely believe he'd been evil all along. Now, I guess it's been there, done that, which is the only difficulty. Also, it would totally go against the general message I think they're trying to send. But I fail to see the narrative purpose of him being innocent but going through all this, especially if he's going to come out good (or at least, not evil) on the other side.

[sifighter]

Actually talking about Loki returning to evil possibly, with issue 13 being in April, the month before Secret Wars, you don't think that they are trying to turn him villainous again just so that they can have an evil Loki for the new MU post Secret Wars?

[cosmicjoke21]

I don't totally think that Loki's journey here would be rendered meaningless if he was, in fact, innocent of the crime of... killing himself. Because the truth is, he's still suffered the immense guilt of believing he's committed that crime, whether he has or not, and still suffers from an awful fear that he, despite his desires and efforts, is and always will be evil. That's an epic tragedy if ever I saw one. Someone believing themselves to be bad because everyone tells them they are, when in reality, they aren't bad at all, or in the least, not at all evil. That's just heartbreakingly sad, I think.

I really think Loki and Kid Loki are the same person because, well, they ARE. There's only one Loki, no matter how much he's been fractured and split apart. They all come from the same, exact source and being. What makes that so fascinating is, as bad and evil as the original Loki's actions got, he still had Kid Loki's and AoA Loki's innocence and goodness in him, all that time. It was just buried very, very deep. But he always had that potential. It's what makes him such a tragic character too. Ikol wasn't "real", he didn't exist in the real, physical world. He was completely in Kid Loki's head, as Leah herself pointed out. If Ikol wasn't real, if he didn't exist outside of Kid Loki's own mind, then he was always a part of and one with Kid Loki. That's just how I see it. And if it turns out that way, I don't think it takes away from the tragedy of what Loki's gone through and going through now. In a way, like I already said, I think it makes it only more tragic. Someone being forced into the role of villain because everyone's made him believe he must be evil.