Loki: Agent of Asgard #10 spoliers

[Raye]

OK, when did "Nerdki" get to be a thing? Seriously, did Loki fans have a meeting about that? Just looked it up on tumblr. Is it a tumblr thing?

I think we actually have SiegeLoki (the poster, not the character) to thank for that. And hey, it fits, and is a lot better than calling him Teen Loki like some people do. That one bugs me. He's not a teenager!

Actually talking about Loki returning to evil possibly, with issue 13 being in April, the month before Secret Wars, you don't think that they are trying to turn him villainous again just so that they can have an evil Loki for the new MU post Secret Wars?

But why would they need to turn this Loki evil for post-Secret Wars if they could just snag an evil Loki from an alternate dimension? I think this is just the path he has to take to wherever he's going.

I guess I'm in the minority in still regarding Loki and Kid Loki as two distinct entities. Like, the way I see it, they had the same base personality at one point (Kid Loki when he was first resurrected), then every event caused a separation. However, this really depends on how you regard how current Loki experienced Kid!Loki's actions as Ikol. If experiencing the actions passively can be considered to the decision making process, then Loki is a continuation of Kid!Loki. Personally, I think the decision making process is the most important part because of the exercise of free will; that is, asserting autonomy of self. Without this agency, personality is essentially meaningless. Thus, they are distinct, although there is an amount of similarity between them, the degree of which is arguable.

I wrote, of all things, a crazy math post about this, because of course I did. Deleted it for being incredibly obtuse. I just felt I should mention it because I spent more time than is reasonably sane on it. I probably spent more time than is reasonably insane on it, too. (What in the ten realms does any of this have to do with math? Absolutely nothing. I just try to math everything).

All that said, I could understand the scenario raised by others. If it happens in text or if we get Word of God, I'll accept it. Right now, I just think it's more interesting if he's not innocent. That he really did commit a horrible thing and is truly sorry about it. That, despite what he thinks, he really does have it in him to change. He doesn't have to let his past actions define him.

Now, if he is innocent, I'd honestly kinda prefer for him to end up evil. It would be a perfect tragedy of everyone's expectations fulfilling themselves. Not to mention, wondrously ironic, because they'd likely believe he'd been evil all along. Now, I guess it's been there, done that, which is the only difficulty. Also, it would totally go against the general message I think they're trying to send. But I fail to see the narrative purpose of him being innocent but going through all this, especially if he's going to come out good (or at least, not evil) on the other side.

I am totally with you on this. I just don't think Kid Loki is in there anymore at all. And after reading Kieron Gillen's reasoning for killing him (and he is very clear that he intended for Kid Loki to be utterly destroyed) I agree with him. I don't WANT Kid Loki back, even in 'an aspect of current Loki' way. I loved him, but I don't want there to be even a hint of him getting corrupted at some point down the line, it would destroy the message of JIM. And even if Ewing doesn't do it, someone down the line would.

I do think Kid Loki had a big influence on Loki, by watching Kid Loki. if nothing else, he had his eyes opened and saw that people actually did/could love him. I think his ROLE has a big big impact, too. I mean, that was the entire plan, right? gods are defined by their roles, so he had to create a new one so he could fill it, and now that he is in Kid Loki's role, that shapes him (even if his old role does still pull at him). But it doesn't mean any part of Kid Loki is still in him. And I guess that's the real tragedy of this issue; with this revelation, that role has been shattered.

[asiea]

Loki - Agent of Asgard #10 (2015) - Seite 22.jpg
loki is a powerful magician why does he not defends himself...

[SiegeLoki]

I think we actually have SiegeLoki (the poster, not the character) to thank for that.

I didnt come up with it, but I use it to differentiate Lokis in conversation. It was either jotunheimrs or schaudwen on tumblr who came up with it and I can never remember which one did it. Happened way back before the first issue I think. I also use 'Little Loki' sometimes, because thats what King Loki called him.

I wont use teen loki or young loki because he is definitely not a teen and I would argue that he isn't young either.

Just Loki I reserve for talking about the Loki of Siege and before.

Little Loki will not emerge from these next few issues unscathed. Thats my prediction. He will not be the same Loki that went in.

[vitruvian]

Loki - Agent of Asgard #10 (2015) - Seite 22.jpg
loki is a powerful magician why does he not defends himself...

How would he defend himself against this situation? Thor is walking away, wanting nothing more to do with him, so what could he do? Control Thor's mind and force him to forgive him for killing and replacing Kid Loki?

[asiea]

How would he defend himself against this situation? Thor is walking away, wanting nothing more to do with him, so what could he do? Control Thor's mind and force him to forgive him for killing and replacing Kid Loki?

no I mean he could save himself so they do not beat him...(I think loki has enough of thor now if it is over ..)I wonder what is lokis punishment..thor wants the people to kill him? is not even murder ?

[vitruvian]

no I mean he could save himself so they do not beat him...(I think loki has enough of thor now if it is over ..)I wonder what is lokis punishment..thor wants the people to kill him? is not even murder ?

Determined at trial, I imagine. And since he himself believes he is guilty of murder, I'm not sure how he'll argue for himself.

[asiea]

Determined at trial, I imagine. And since he himself believes he is guilty of murder, I'm not sure how he'll argue for himself.

odin has a major role in the next comic I think he will choose the judgment..what do you think is his punishment?? HAH he goes to jail because he killed himself...(I know it's sad for kid loki but is so funny..)

loki you killed loki !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ryochan]

I am totally with you on this. I just don't think Kid Loki is in there anymore at all. And after reading Kieron Gillen's reasoning for killing him (and he is very clear that he intended for Kid Loki to be utterly destroyed) I agree with him. I don't WANT Kid Loki back, even in 'an aspect of current Loki' way. I loved him, but I don't want there to be even a hint of him getting corrupted at some point down the line, it would destroy the message of JIM. And even if Ewing doesn't do it, someone down the line would.

I do think Kid Loki had a big influence on Loki, by watching Kid Loki. if nothing else, he had his eyes opened and saw that people actually did/could love him. I think his ROLE has a big big impact, too. I mean, that was the entire plan, right? gods are defined by their roles, so he had to create a new one so he could fill it, and now that he is in Kid Loki's role, that shapes him (even if his old role does still pull at him). But it doesn't mean any part of Kid Loki is still in him. And I guess that's the real tragedy of this issue; with this revelation, that role has been shattered.

I had to chime in to say I'm with you on that. I have been enjoying this run more than I expected to, but it's not because I believe Kid Loki is still in there somewhere (I don't). Kid Loki was able to change, in spite of what everyone believed about him, and was eventually able to change their minds about him. However, everyone knew it couldn't last, so his story ended while he was still on top (kinda). The most tragic part of the end of JIM in a lot of ways is when Loki goes from "Damn me" to "Damn you all". Once more he blames everyone else for who he is. Admittedly, the pressures to be what people want you to be are strong (even if you aren't a god, much less a god of evil) but the great part of Kid Loki and now AoA Loki's story is that they each struggle to fight the pressures on them to force them back into a role they don't want.

Old Loki's greatest sin (if you could call it that) is that he always blamed everyone else for his problems and failures besides himself. Kid Loki didn't blame anyone. AoA Loki is striking an uncomfortable balance of blaming others and himself. But at least he is taking a degree of responsibility. By owning the fact that he destroyed another being (aspect of himself or not, they are distinct beings) so that he could take that 'good name'.

So no, I don't think Kid Loki and AoA Loki are the same, but AoA is following in some ways a more complicated, adult path. He is no longer innocent, but he owns that. It is the story of someone struggling to be a better person, and that's a story I've always gotten behind.

As a side note, I've always been a huge fan of Illyana (Magik) in the old days but am struggling to continue liking this new iteration of her. Magik's old story was very familiar: someone fighting inherent darkness inside themselves (that they had no choice about) to choose to be a better person. It is the story of free will. She started the story completely innocent and, due to no fault of her own, was corrupted and then had to fight that corruption on a daily basis. Her power and the corruption were intimately entwined and in order to use her power, she had to accept the corruption that she now chose instead of having forced upon her. (Sounding familiar? Every step moved her closer to burning, forever burning.) These days she accepts the power, accepts the corruption that is a part of it (well, one might argue it's easier for her since she started out as a purely evil copy of the original who cheated to get the pieces of the original's corrupted soul that she now has). There's no longer any struggle, no fear of falling, because she is fallen. On the plus side, she owns that, she's made her decisions and stands by them. On the minus side, the struggle is over and evil (power) won. Without wanting to bring yet another comic character comparison into it, there are certain obvious parallels with Lucifer (Vertigo comic version, not, you know THE Lucifer.)

Now Loki is struggling, much as Magik used to, against the corruption of power. But this Loki seems to have no problem turning his back on power to continue to strive to do the right thing and be a better person ('Take an arrow to the face every time'). He might backslide, he might even fall, but so long as he is fighting to be a better person, choosing to be a better person even when it is not easy or rewarding, I will continue to enjoy the story.

[Habis]

odin has a major role in the next comic I think he will choose the judgment..what do you think is his punishment?? HAH he goes to jail because he killed himself...(I know it's sad for kid loki but is so funny..)

loki you killed loki !!!!!!!!!!!!

Odin will want to know what has really happened, and when he learns that both Kid Loki and current Loki are the same, but with a mind replacing other/a set of memories overwritting the other, he won't consider it murder. Odin likes to play with fake personalities himself, just remember Dr. Donald Blake, or that other time Odin created human personalities for all the Asgardians after Ragnarok.

What will happen is that Odin will say "I told you he was the same old Loki all the time". He will consider Kid Loki a trick, a lie, nothing more, and the other Asgardians will follow his lead. They will stop giving Loki the moderate amount of trust they have given him until now.

The All-Mothers...well they WANT him to be evil. They will probably think "all according to plan". Freyja will probably feel a bit guilty, but that's all.

[king of hybrids]

i'm not sure; i got the feeling in tenth realm that odin might have some suspicions of what happened (the emphasis put on 'i know you, and i love you"). he has misgivings about freyja's plan as it is. and to say thor would be unhappy with the allmother would be an understatement.

in fact, i wouldn't rule out King Loki counting on it. the ten realms are a political power keg as it is; Loki's trial could well be the spark.

[asiea]

i'm not sure; i got the feeling in tenth realm that odin might have some suspicions of what happened (the emphasis put on 'i know you, and i love you"). he has misgivings about freyja's plan as it is. and to say thor would be unhappy with the allmother would be an understatement.

in fact, i wouldn't rule out King Loki counting on it. the ten realms are a political power keg as it is; Loki's trial could well be the spark.

I really hope that his father still loves him and will save him so nobody will hurt my loki...

[asiea]

Odin will want to know what has really happened, and when he learns that both Kid Loki and current Loki are the same, but with a mind replacing other/a set of memories overwritting the other, he won't consider it murder. Odin likes to play with fake personalities himself, just remember Dr. Donald Blake, or that other time Odin created human personalities for all the Asgardians after Ragnarok.

What will happen is that Odin will say "I told you he was the same old Loki all the time". He will consider Kid Loki a trick, a lie, nothing more, and the other Asgardians will follow his lead. They will stop giving Loki the moderate amount of trust they have given him until now.

The All-Mothers...well they WANT him to be evil. They will probably think "all according to plan". Freyja will probably feel a bit guilty, but that's all.

it seems odin loves all the lokis.. and he's right because they are the same person..
thor loves only kid loki that's sad...

[king of hybrids]

its not that thor loves only kid loki; but finding out that, from the looks of things, that everything since siege has been one exceptionally cruel joke by old!loki, on top of the truly, utterly, monstrous things loki has done over the centuries; on top of becoming unworthy, on top of getting his ass handed to him by malekith, by new thor, by angela; planet x, the aftereffects of the inversion, and the not-unlikely feelings that he was only ever a replacement blankie for angela and balder in frigga's eyes (incidently, i can imagine he's not going to be happy her plans at all); plus the stuff going down with the illuminati. he's broken, and he's lashing out.

I really hope that his father still loves him and will save him so nobody will hurt my loki...

Odin's washed his hands of both lokis; salvation may have to come from within... or less expected sources (i wonder how much it would cost odinson to strike... bargains)

[Bookem Danno]

Loved this ish. I can't believe how often and how much Teen Loki has been evoking sympathy after what happened to Kid Loki and the inevitability of King Loki. The debate of who did who to what is fascinating with this installment (including neatly related cover image) and it was SO COOL how the writer incorporated the non-canon recap-page directly into the story!

Has anyone expalined the significance, if any, of the comical reference to Heteronormativa?! This book needs MORE Amora followup ASAP too.

[Rosebunse]

I'm one fence about kidLoki. Listening to you guys, I'm reminded that yes, Ewing is probably going with Gillen's wishes to leave kidLoki alone.

The idea of how the revelation regarding King Loki will affect Asgard/ia is interesting. If someone ask Loki about King Loki or the All-Mother, he'll have no choice but to tell the truth, which will be fun to watch. No one is going to want to support her then, which makes the whole thing with the female Thor a bit fun.