Loki: Agent of Asgard #10 spoliers

[Post Monster]

So no, I don't think Kid Loki and AoA Loki are the same, but AoA is following in some ways a more complicated, adult path.

IMO, Kid Loki's personality is merged into AoA Loki to the point only the Loki bits are still present, so there's no way to get Kid Loki back. But Ikol isn't there anymore either. AoA Loki a new Loki that resulted from the collision/merging of Kid Loki and Ikol. So, AoA Loki is right that his coming into existence did kill Kid Loki and Ikol. However, it wasn't murder and he wasn't around to make that choice consciously. He's the aftermath of the act: a new personality that will be driven to be a better person. That's why Kid Loki had to be set up by Siege Loki to die a horrible death; he had to motivate the new Loki enough to change from the evil path.

It's significant that King Loki was ripped out of Thor. It's also significant that Thor brought Kid Loki back. I think King Loki may be no more than the fears that Thor had about Loki. Loki will have to face them as well, and I fully expect he'll have to merge with King Loki at some point. But AoA Loki will be the stronger Loki, in part because of Kid Loki so King Loki won't be able to take over.

[Raye]

i'm not sure; i got the feeling in tenth realm that odin might have some suspicions of what happened (the emphasis put on 'i know you, and i love you"). he has misgivings about freyja's plan as it is. and to say thor would be unhappy with the allmother would be an understatement.

in fact, i wouldn't rule out King Loki counting on it. the ten realms are a political power keg as it is; Loki's trial could well be the spark.

I am fairly certain Odin already knows damn well who is in that body, which is why I am anticipating that if anyone is going to be on Loki's side here, it will be Odin. And yeah, it could very well start a schism in Asgard, it's been leading to one anyway every since Odin came back (thanks to Loki) but this could be the final straw. It just seems like things could divide up too neatly for them to have not been leading to this. 2 Asgards, 2 rulers who don't see eye to eye, and Odin likely showing favor to Loki here (for once) while Freyja shows favor to Thor. It splits into clearly divided camps pretty neatly.

I'm one fence about kidLoki. Listening to you guys, I'm reminded that yes, Ewing is probably going with Gillen's wishes to leave kidLoki alone.

The idea of how the revelation regarding King Loki will affect Asgard/ia is interesting. If someone ask Loki about King Loki or the All-Mother, he'll have no choice but to tell the truth, which will be fun to watch. No one is going to want to support her then, which makes the whole thing with the female Thor a bit fun.

I guess it depends... she fell for King Loki's promised future pretty easily, it stands to reason she won't be the only one. Asgardians are pretty big on predestination, so I could see them going along with it, sadly. And if Loki goes with Odin after this revelation, that will put a lot of people off of joining his side. I can see it being a fairly even and bitterly divided split.

I had to chime in to say I'm with you on that. I have been enjoying this run more than I expected to, but it's not because I believe Kid Loki is still in there somewhere (I don't). Kid Loki was able to change, in spite of what everyone believed about him, and was eventually able to change their minds about him. However, everyone knew it couldn't last, so his story ended while he was still on top (kinda). The most tragic part of the end of JIM in a lot of ways is when Loki goes from "Damn me" to "Damn you all". Once more he blames everyone else for who he is. Admittedly, the pressures to be what people want you to be are strong (even if you aren't a god, much less a god of evil) but the great part of Kid Loki and now AoA Loki's story is that they each struggle to fight the pressures on them to force them back into a role they don't want.

Old Loki's greatest sin (if you could call it that) is that he always blamed everyone else for his problems and failures besides himself. Kid Loki didn't blame anyone. AoA Loki is striking an uncomfortable balance of blaming others and himself. But at least he is taking a degree of responsibility. By owning the fact that he destroyed another being (aspect of himself or not, they are distinct beings) so that he could take that 'good name'.

Yeah. But on the upside, as you point out, all this guilt he has been feeling from YA onwards is a sign that he is blaming HIMSELF for this, at least partly, which is a good bit of character growth.

Now Loki is struggling, much as Magik used to, against the corruption of power. But this Loki seems to have no problem turning his back on power to continue to strive to do the right thing and be a better person ('Take an arrow to the face every time'). He might backslide, he might even fall, but so long as he is fighting to be a better person, choosing to be a better person even when it is not easy or rewarding, I will continue to enjoy the story.

Yeah, i agree. it is the struggle against the darkness that is giving his story it's emotional weight right now. If the darkness wins, that emotional weight disappears. He may be a perfectly good villain and fun to read about, but I would find it hard to feel emotionally invested in him if he were to fall permanently (stumbling is fine) even if the end result is one of the more sympathetic villains in the MU.

[asiea]

I am fairly certain Odin already knows damn well who is in that body, which is why I am anticipating that if anyone is going to be on Loki's side here, it will be Odin. And yeah, it could very well start a schism in Asgard, it's been leading to one anyway every since Odin came back (thanks to Loki) but this could be the final straw. It just seems like things could divide up too neatly for them to have not been leading to this. 2 Asgards, 2 rulers who don't see eye to eye, and Odin likely showing favor to Loki here (for once) while Freyja shows favor to Thor. It splits into clearly divided camps pretty neatly.



I guess it depends... she fell for King Loki's promised future pretty easily, it stands to reason she won't be the only one. Asgardians are pretty big on predestination, so I could see them going along with it, sadly. And if Loki goes with Odin after this revelation, that will put a lot of people off of joining his side. I can see it being a fairly even and bitterly divided split.


Yeah. But on the upside, as you point out, all this guilt he has been feeling from YA onwards is a sign that he is blaming HIMSELF for this, at least partly, which is a good bit of character growth.



Yeah, i agree. it is the struggle against the darkness that is giving his story it's emotional weight right now. If the darkness wins, that emotional weight disappears. He may be a perfectly good villain and fun to read about, but I would find it hard to feel emotionally invested in him if he were to fall permanently (stumbling is fine) even if the end result is one of the more sympathetic villains in the MU.

( Freyja shows favor to Thor.)
frigga is a terrible mother I hope she gets her punishment.

[Joe Acro]

no I mean he could save himself so they do not beat him...(I think loki has enough of thor now if it is over ..)I wonder what is lokis punishment..thor wants the people to kill him? is not even murder ?

I think for the simple reason that he feels he deserves it. Loki doesn't ever tell Thor to stop. He shows incredible remorse. He feels like a lowlife, and feels like he should be treated as such. "I am the crime that will not be forgiven."--by himself or others. But he wants forgiveness. He definitely wants to live. He was willing to fight Thor over his life. Imprisonment? It's doubtful he wants that either, but probably feels he deserves it. Plus, in his stressed state, he may not be able to conjure any spells to combat Thor's swift and righteous anger.

I don't think Thor wants the people to kill him, necessarily. He wants someone else to determine suitable punishment.

[Punisher007]

I could actually see Odin being on Loki's side as well. I have a hard believing that he suspects nothing (even if he doesn't know everything). I also kind of want to see a Thor/Verity confrontation where she basically reads him the riot act.

[Punisher007]

I am fairly certain Odin already knows damn well who is in that body, which is why I am anticipating that if anyone is going to be on Loki's side here, it will be Odin. And yeah, it could very well start a schism in Asgard, it's been leading to one anyway every since Odin came back (thanks to Loki) but this could be the final straw. It just seems like things could divide up too neatly for them to have not been leading to this. 2 Asgards, 2 rulers who don't see eye to eye, and Odin likely showing favor to Loki here (for once) while Freyja shows favor to Thor. It splits into clearly divided camps pretty neatly.



I guess it depends... she fell for King Loki's promised future pretty easily, it stands to reason she won't be the only one. Asgardians are pretty big on predestination, so I could see them going along with it, sadly. And if Loki goes with Odin after this revelation, that will put a lot of people off of joining his side. I can see it being a fairly even and bitterly divided split.


Yeah. But on the upside, as you point out, all this guilt he has been feeling from YA onwards is a sign that he is blaming HIMSELF for this, at least partly, which is a good bit of character growth.



Yeah, i agree. it is the struggle against the darkness that is giving his story it's emotional weight right now. If the darkness wins, that emotional weight disappears. He may be a perfectly good villain and fun to read about, but I would find it hard to feel emotionally invested in him if he were to fall permanently (stumbling is fine) even if the end result is one of the more sympathetic villains in the MU.

I would argue that Freyja seemingly believing King Loki so easily makes her look like kind of an idiot. THAT's the guy that you shouldn't trust.

[asiea]

I think for the simple reason that he feels he deserves it. Loki doesn't ever tell Thor to stop. He shows incredible remorse. He feels like a lowlife, and feels like he should be treated as such. "I am the crime that will not be forgiven."--by himself or others. But he wants forgiveness. He definitely wants to live. He was willing to fight Thor over his life. Imprisonment? It's doubtful he wants that either, but probably feels he deserves it. Plus, in his stressed state, he may not be able to conjure any spells to combat Thor's swift and righteous anger.

I don't think Thor wants the people to kill him, necessarily. He wants someone else to determine suitable punishment.

what do you think will be lokis punishment ?

[asiea]

I would argue that Freyja seemingly believing King Loki so easily makes her look like kind of an idiot. THAT's the guy that you shouldn't trust.

you're right KING LOKI IS LOKI.

[Habis]

I think for the simple reason that he feels he deserves it. Loki doesn't ever tell Thor to stop. He shows incredible remorse. He feels like a lowlife, and feels like he should be treated as such. "I am the crime that will not be forgiven."--by himself or others. But he wants forgiveness. He definitely wants to live. He was willing to fight Thor over his life. Imprisonment? It's doubtful he wants that either, but probably feels he deserves it. Plus, in his stressed state, he may not be able to conjure any spells to combat Thor's swift and righteous anger.

I don't think Thor wants the people to kill him, necessarily. He wants someone else to determine suitable punishment.

Except only Odin has the authority to punish Loki, and he probably won't care the destruction of a fake personality. Odin never fell for Loki's trick, he always thought it was old Loki playing tricks all along. He even thought that Loki was the one who had cursed Thor so he couldn't lift his hammer.

If Odin bothers making Loki tell the complete tale, he will probably shrug and say to Thor "you should have known better than to fall for his trick; this is Loki we are speaking about...well, at least he hasn't tried to kill you this time, just to earn your approval...that is an improvement, isn't it?".

The only consequence I think Loki will suffer is the loss of trust from all Asgardians. He won't be welcomed there anymore.

[asiea]

[ROSA13]

I think that Loki suffered of Ego-state, a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder.Odin already knows the truth.And that’s before you factor in Odin admitting how much he loves loki , in whatever form,


I’d still like to scoff at Loki, since… Hello? Her name is Verity, which literally means Truth, because it happens to be a thing she’s good at? She is the truthest truth that truthes and when she emits doubts, YOU LISTEN TO HER

[king of hybrids]

( Freyja shows favor to Thor.)
frigga is a terrible mother I hope she gets her punishment.

Freyja shows favor to thor solely because she was unable to raise her other children

and while thor is immensely pissed off at loki right now; he is not going to react well to freyja piddling on everything he and asgard have endured since ragnarok and ensuring that loki became evil again. and i imagine, for a sufficent fee, he may find one who would assist him in... voicing his displeasure with freyja.

[Rosebunse]

Except only Odin has the authority to punish Loki, and he probably won't care the destruction of a fake personality. Odin never fell for Loki's trick, he always thought it was old Loki playing tricks all along. He even thought that Loki was the one who had cursed Thor so he couldn't lift his hammer.

If Odin bothers making Loki tell the complete tale, he will probably shrug and say to Thor "you should have known better than to fall for his trick; this is Loki we are speaking about...well, at least he hasn't tried to kill you this time, just to earn your approval...that is an improvement, isn't it?".

The only consequence I think Loki will suffer is the loss of trust from all Asgardians. He won't be welcomed there anymore.

And to be fair, this sadly is an improvement. Instead of trying to kill Thor and take over Asgard, Loki is just trying to get love from his family and protect Asgard. However, he's still going to have to punish Loki because if he doesn't someone else will. Think about what the other Asgardians are going to want to do with him. I imagine the next time we see Loki he's going to be black and blue and bleeding all over.

I'm beginning to wonder about Loki's new look. Think about it, what's the worst Odin could do? He's already dripped poison in his eyes, turned him into a tree, beaten him, the thing with the wall...so what if he does something to Loki's shape-shifting so that everyone will know who Loki is forever? This makes a bit of sense considering that Loki's much improved looks have been commented on throughout the run.

I think that Loki suffered of Ego-state, a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder.Odin already knows the truth.And that’s before you factor in Odin admitting how much he loves loki , in whatever form,


I’d still like to scoff at Loki, since… Hello? Her name is Verity, which literally means Truth, because it happens to be a thing she’s good at? She is the truthest truth that truthes and when she emits doubts, YOU LISTEN TO HER

True, Loki could be blocking some of his own memories and thoughts, but also, this seems a bit too much like an amnesia cop-out.

[Rosebunse]

Freyja shows favor to thor solely because she was unable to raise her other children

and while thor is immensely pissed off at loki right now; he is not going to react well to freyja piddling on everything he and asgard have endured since ragnarok and ensuring that loki became evil again. and i imagine, for a sufficent fee, he may find one who would assist him in... voicing his displeasure with freyja.

I can't blame her for that. No matter how you looked at it, Odin was a bastard to her about having children. He went and had an affair and appointed that child to the throne, and then made a freaking mutant Frost Giant third in line.

[Habis]

Freyja shows favor to thor solely because she was unable to raise her other children.

I can't blame her for that. No matter how you looked at it, Odin was a bastard to her about having children. He went and had an affair and appointed that child to the throne, and then made a freaking mutant Frost Giant third in line.

About that...I have read Gillen's explanation about the origins of each of Odin's children. Balder is Odin and Freyja's child, born before marriage; Thor is Odin and Jord/Gaia's child, born outside marriage; Loki is adopted; Vidar is Odin and Grid's son, born outside marriage; Tyr and Hermod are Odin's sons by unknown mothers; Angela/Aldrif and the new baby are Odin and Freyja's only legitimate kids.

If Thor is the oldest, that means that he was born before his marriage to Freyja, so he wasn't raised by Freyja.

If Balder is the oldest...why isn't he Odin's heir? Both Thor and he would be bastards, but he would be older than Thor and the son of the queen.

I think Kieron Gillen made a mistake there.