Doctor Doom Appreciation

[Techno_Knight]

So this sounds like, according to the leak, that Victor would be battling two sides of his psyche. That could be interesting but depending on the writer.

I just meant that Riri and Doom will be battling for the title of Iron Man. Tony wakes up, assumes the mantle, Riri... dunno, and Doom becomes a Tony Stark villain.

[Iron Maiden]

So, from what I'm gathering, Infamous Iron Man hasn't been all that great? I wanted to read it for Victor (and seeing as we have such precious few F4 material, these days), but can't bring myself to put in the effort.

I don't think last issue was a very good one for the series. If you have Marvel Unlimited, the early issues should be on there. Or there's always those other avenues of reading comics online. The biggest drawback is Bendis and the decompression but most of the time I found it to be better than I thought it would. Most online reviewers have been giving it a positive rating.

I just meant that Riri and Doom will be battling for the title of Iron Man. Tony wakes up, assumes the mantle, Riri... dunno, and Doom becomes a Tony Stark villain.

Oh, sorry. Now I got ya. Should have known that's what you meant by the cover of Doom vs Ironheart. But I do think it would be interesting to see the dark side creeping back because of his struggles in trying to find his place in the grand scheme of things. And it's not like anyone is giving him any encouragement. The SHIELD agents thought he was no better than an animal. A couple of issues back when he was warning Ben about starting a fight in Ben's apartment building, he said to him that he could cause the building to collapse and people would die. That Ben would be hunted down like an animal despite all the good he's done. I think Victor was talking about his experience trying to be a hero at the same time.

[SuperiorIronman]

I have to agree with the idea that Victor was in a way referencing his own experiences when he was talking to Ben. Part of what I like about the early part of Infamous Iron man was that the early (I think 5 issues) play out like an anti-origin story. The first couple of issues where the supporting cast gets introduced, and we get a status quo along with the overarching story. However everywhere Victor goes not only does nobody trust him, but the only person he can confide in shoots him and the person he would go to Hell and back for (his mother) is ashamed of him. The only thing he accomplishes here is standing firm that he is a hero now, but nobody is willing to give him a chance.

Nobody really can stand against Victor, so a lot of what I like in this series stems from it being about Victor wanting to do good and having to jump through the hoops to simply be trusted. People trust Iron man, people will just let Thing break priceless artifacts, a no-name like Riri got an Iron man suit and is praised for how "amazing" she is despite doing nothing, the heroes and SHIELD are doing nothing to clean up Latveria in Doom's absence and the people aren't doing much better. Victor wants to be the best hero possible, the best Iron man ever, and yet his infamy is his biggest hurtle. 9 may not be great and it's definitely not Doom 2099, but Infamous Iron man to me is worth picking up to see how earnestly Victor is trying to be in being one of the good guys.

[Iron Maiden]

I have to agree with the idea that Victor was in a way referencing his own experiences when he was talking to Ben. Part of what I like about the early part of Infamous Iron man was that the early (I think 5 issues) play out like an anti-origin story. The first couple of issues where the supporting cast gets introduced, and we get a status quo along with the overarching story. However everywhere Victor goes not only does nobody trust him, but the only person he can confide in shoots him and the person he would go to Hell and back for (his mother) is ashamed of him. The only thing he accomplishes here is standing firm that he is a hero now, but nobody is willing to give him a chance.

Nobody really can stand against Victor, so a lot of what I like in this series stems from it being about Victor wanting to do good and having to jump through the hoops to simply be trusted. People trust Iron man, people will just let Thing break priceless artifacts, a no-name like Riri got an Iron man suit and is praised for how "amazing" she is despite doing nothing, the heroes and SHIELD are doing nothing to clean up Latveria in Doom's absence and the people aren't doing much better. Victor wants to be the best hero possible, the best Iron man ever, and yet his infamy is his biggest hurtle. 9 may not be great and it's definitely not Doom 2099, but Infamous Iron man to me is worth picking up to see how earnestly Victor is trying to be in being one of the good guys.

QFT. And to top it all off, he did save probably millions of lives in Secret Wars by heading off the Beyonders plan for the destruction of everything. Even doing that, it was a dirty job and as the Molecule Man said he had to become the serial killer of one man, the many versions of the Molecule Man. Doom said he saw little grace in his task and the way it was set up, he was the only that would do the job. And he was doing this for decades when he jumped into the past. (makes one wonder how old he really is these days) The Illuminati were hamstrung by a crisis of conscience. Namor was defeated by it all even when he did take things in his own hands. It was too much of a burden to bear and he lost control of the Cabal.

[Ravin' Ray]

CBR has a new Doom feature: Dr. Doom: His 7 Most Heroic (And 8 Nastiest) Moments.

[PaxHouse]

Hope that the readers enjoyed the recent appearance of "Doom" within DR. STRANGE & SORCERERS SUMPREME #10.

PS....And it's not who the readers think this version of Doom is....!!

[Iron Maiden]

CBR has a new Doom feature: Dr. Doom: His 7 Most Heroic (And 8 Nastiest) Moments.

Thanks for linking that Ray. I looked it over last night and I have to say the list was pretty entertaining. I do kind of get tired of the Luke Cage encounter where he didn't get paid for working a case for Doom. The late Dwayne McDuffie addressed that in an issue of his Damage Control. I remember on the old CBR he replied when Brian Cronin included it in one of his columns and pointed out he always hated that Luke Cage story.

Hope that the readers enjoyed the recent appearance of "Doom" within DR. STRANGE & SORCERERS SUMPREME #10.

PS....And it's not who the readers think this version of Doom is....!!

I had that on my pull list this week but haven't got to it yet. I'll have to check in later on that.

[MarvelMaster616]

Maybe it's just me, but it feels like Dr. Doom's story has been getting overlooked more and more lately with Infamous Iron Man. Between Secret Empire and the continued disillusion of the Fantastic Four, it feels like Doom is just filling a quota of sorts. That's a shame because his story has been really amazing thus far. And I think it's a lot more compelling than anything going on in Secret Empire.

I hope we get to see more of Doom's development. In the meantime, I recently wrote an article about him on my publishing blog. For the past few days, I've been talking about repressive governments, which seems to be a hot topic. As I often do, I tied it into my love of comics. In the process, I made an important claim. Dr. Doom, by nearly every measure, is the perfect ruler. I'm not just talking about being a perfect ruler for Latveria. I mean he's the perfect ruler, period. It doesn't matter whether he's in a dictatorship or a democracy. He has the smarts, the cunning, and the resources to be the best possible ruler. If the events of Doomwar are still canon, he may be the only ruler that can keep the Marvel universe from becoming a dystopia.

I think that's an issue worth discussing. And if you're interested in the article, here's a link:

Dr. Doom, Perfect Rulers, And Ultimate Peace

[Kintor]

I think that's an issue worth discussing. And if you're interested in the article, here's a link:

Dr. Doom, Perfect Rulers, And Ultimate Peace

That was a good read, I agree - Doom really is an example of the perfect ruler.

I would say that few in all of fantasy and mythology could match or exceed Doom's abilities as a leader, except of course for the God Emperor of Mankind in Warhammer 40,000. An immortal who has lived since the dawn of man, who used his genius at genetic engineering and prescient psychic powers to guide Humanity in a Great Crusade to bring the entire galaxy under Human rule:


For the Emperor! Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.

...

Regardless, the existence of Doom in the Marvel Universe does raise an important point, that few Marvel stories actually deal with ruling. It's been said that 'with great power comes great responsibility' but in many ways Marvel's superheros are dangerously irresponsible. They fight to save the day and defeat evil but they draw the line at actually trying to change society or assume any real positions of authority. Instead, they hand power back to the same short-sighted and corrupt officials, allowing the whole cycle of violence to perpetuate itself. That ultimatly, Marvel's superheros can't truly save the world, it all ends in ruin eventually as Marvel's endless crisis and civil wars attest. Only Doom's leadership has ever been able to bring a measure of stability to the Marvel universe.

[marhawkman]

Valeria von Doom was one of my faves.

[Iron Maiden]

Valeria von Doom was one of my faves.

Oh, I see you're not real thrilled about that. I liked her better when Hickman was on the FF. I didn't really like her sudden genius that happened in Mark Millar's run but Hickman did make lemonade out of a lemon IMO.

I even like Claremont's time dancing Valeria that was the big sister to Franklin from an alternate timeline. Her origin and the younger Valeria's are pretty entangled though. still feel that Valeria von Doom was reincarnated as Valeria Richards. It does sort of explain her accelerated IQ development

[Iron Maiden]

Maybe it's just me, but it feels like Dr. Doom's story has been getting overlooked more and more lately with Infamous Iron Man. Between Secret Empire and the continued disillusion of the Fantastic Four, it feels like Doom is just filling a quota of sorts. That's a shame because his story has been really amazing thus far. And I think it's a lot more compelling than anything going on in Secret Empire.

I hope we get to see more of Doom's development. In the meantime, I recently wrote an article about him on my publishing blog. For the past few days, I've been talking about repressive governments, which seems to be a hot topic. As I often do, I tied it into my love of comics. In the process, I made an important claim. Dr. Doom, by nearly every measure, is the perfect ruler. I'm not just talking about being a perfect ruler for Latveria. I mean he's the perfect ruler, period. It doesn't matter whether he's in a dictatorship or a democracy. He has the smarts, the cunning, and the resources to be the best possible ruler. If the events of Doomwar are still canon, he may be the only ruler that can keep the Marvel universe from becoming a dystopia.

I think that's an issue worth discussing. And if you're interested in the article, here's a link:

Dr. Doom, Perfect Rulers, And Ultimate Peace

I was glad to read your opening statement. I do have the issues of Secret Empire stacked up to read and I have to say I've not been compelled to get back to them immediately. As an older fan I have been finding less and less that compels me to go to the LCS. I used to enjoy reading the whole line back in the days when you could by them all for less than around $10. But these days, I mainly concentrate on finding out what Victor von Doom is up to. Not that I know much about their qualifications but by most of the online reviews I've read, "Infamous" gets a positive rating most of the time. My problem with Bendis has always been the decompression. It seems to have taken over the entire industry but that's another conversation. I was skeptical about him handling a post SW Doom but so far I've been entertained by this phase more than I expected.

I enjoyed your article but will have to go back and go over the linked stuff. I'm a bit pressed for time and may revisit the entire piece later.

Even though a character in comics is such a patchwork of elements that one finds there are annoying inconsistencies that become part of canon I think most people who are fans here know a bad bit when they see it. Even Stan and Jack are guilty in that regard when one compares FF annual #2 to the much later story that would be the last major Lee/Kirby FF arc when the Fantastic Four try to go undercover in Latveria....like that was going to work. Doom heads them off straight away. He comes across as more totalitarian than the earlier glimpse. But it would be the first time where we have a case of where even though they are the enemy, Doom has that mind control device that suppresses their thoughts about using their powers. He want their stay in Latveria to be almost like being at a resort...until he unleashes those Omnibots. Skipping ahead to the conclusion, he simply decides the conflict had ended and they are free to go. The FF simply leave without questioning his authority. Later on Reed even shows that he trusts in Doom's leadership when Latveria has gone to ruin under Prince Zorba, who Reed helped put into power.

One thing that I find interesting about his reign in that Doom is the lowest of the low in Latverian society. His people are shunned throughout Europe and even in a backwater nation like the Latveria of Doom's youth, his people are oppressed. On top of that he is orphaned , probably penniless and has few possessions. One thing that doesn't happen in his reign (and I'm overlooking an incident Waid shows in Authoritative Action) is that he does not conduct any purges of all those who caused his people's misery. Everyone is accepted under his iron fist.

I'll end this with a page from Doom 2099 for now.

[Kintor]

I'll end this with a page from Doom 2099 for now.

Ah yes, this page would have been the perfect way to end issue #39 and perhaps even the run of Doom 2099 as well.

That whole 'Rage Against time' arc never sat well with me. The premise of getting Latverians addicted to a specific drug in order to create a genetic immunity to deadly nanite swarms was always over-complicated and stretched credibility, even by comic book standards. Made all the more redundant decades later when the mainline Doom faced a similar problem with a ruined Latveria, he just transported a version of Latveria from before the disaster into the present day.

Even so, putting aside everything that was published afterwards, this final page from Warren Ellis is still brilliant. The entire sequence as Doom returns to Myridia is both haunting and beautiful. I don't think anything else has ever come close to encapsulating Doom's motivations as a character; that Doom will always strive to improve the world and the lives of the people in it, even if he's hated for daring to do so.

Doom's whole journey in 2099 reminds me of a fitting quote from another cyberpunk universe. As was said in the video game Deus Ex: Human Revolution - "If you want to make enemies, try to change something."

[Iron Maiden]

It is still probably the best sustained characterization of Doom that we have. We were lucky to have about 4 years of it and to have Warren Ellis be a big part of it. IIRC, right after Ellis's last wonderful page, the story picks up with a different creative team within that same issue and it pretty much goes off the rails.

John Francis Moore came back for the last couple of issues to wrap things up but the art was horrifically bad.

But this is one of the reasons why I really think Waid didn't do his due diligence on some key Doom stories when he wrote Unthinkable. Another story that should have informed why he got Doom bargaining with the Hazareth demons wrong is of course Triumph and Torment. One wonders though if he's rethought the character at all recently since much has happened since he was on the Fantastic Four. He really hasn't touched the character since. I thought it was funny that JMS ignored a lot of Waid's Doom and just jumped to him making a bad ass escape out of Hell.

And look at that, this thread hit 600,000 views!

[SeanHarry]

One thing that is confusing me about Infamous Iron Man is exactly what are SHIELD after Doom for, and what is he supposed to be charged with in the latest issue?

Back in the Mark Miller / Bryan Hitch run of the FF, in issue 566, the start of The Master of Doom, Doom has been released by the US Government with a full apology! This is all courtesy of Norman Osborn as part of the Cabal storyline.

So given that he'd been arrested the released, with a public apology, it's going to be near impossible to charge him for anything before that.

After this storyline, he became part of Reed Richards Future Foundation, helped stopped the Mad Celestials, and also teamed up with SHIELD, along with the Winter Soldier and Black Widow, to help stop Lucia von Bardas.

After that he kept pretty much a low profile, studying the Incursions and getting ready to fight the Beyonders. During this period the likes of the Fantastic Four and Dr Strange felt at easy to stop around at Castle Doom on a regular basis for tea, treated as honoured guests, and Doom also acted as a temporary guardian for Reeds daughter, Valeria.

So pretty much since issue 566 of the FF, Doom hasn't done anything that I can see that he could be charged with.

Given the number of ex-Super Villains that are in SHIELDS employ, such as Black Widow and Hawkeye, a more logical approach by SHIELD would surely be to try to use Doom as an asset?

As much as I have been enjoying Infamous Iron Man, Doom's run in with SHIELD seem to be a plot contrivance that doesn't fit into Marvel continuity.

Wouldn't it just take him a phone call or an e-mail to sort out diplomatic immunity again?

And Latveria is a real plot problem for me. If Doom wants to be a hero, I'd have thought he'd start in his own back yard. Instead of leaving Latveria, set up a UN sanctioned election, leave Kristof and Boris in charge until those elections take place, encourage a variety of political parties within the country, secure his own technology and mystic artefacts, and as I said ensure he maintains his diplomatic immunity.

I also don't get the whole issue over him calling himself Iron Man. Everybody knows that it's Doom, he doesn't look one bit like the Tony Stark Iron Man, he's been working pretty much off of the radar, and I can't believe for a second anybody would mistake him for Tony Stark. Again, it seems a contrivance to me just to call the comic Iron Man.

The warning he received from a future Tony Stark has me scratching my head; how would whether he's calling himself Iron Man (and nobody else seems to be) or Doom effect him in a future encounter? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

And given Starks own shady past as an arms dealer, surely Iron Man is a good title for one seeking redemption?