Doctor Doom Appreciation

[victor_cardigan]

Second, what are some "Underrated Doom Stories" for you? Ones that you really love or like but perhaps don't get the attention like some of the thread favorites like Triumph and Torment or Doom Stealing the Power Cosmic. I would love to know your opinions, might help me track down some notable stories I missed in my attempt to read all the great Doom stories (Even some not so great ones, LOOKING AT YOU UNTHINKABLE).

I'm fond of Cloak and Dagger #10 [Volume 2]. The premise is Doom doesn't think the world is ready for nuclear power and decide to take it away from everyone.

Power Pack #53, a Acts of Vengeance tie-in. Doom's role is small, mostly listening to Typhoid Mary recount her encounter with the Pack. But the ending features, I think, a great character moment for Doom. A rare moment where Doom shows his love of his father. A relationship which is not touched on very often. Strange given that he knew his father much longer than his mother. There's some drama that could be mined there.

Avengers (volume 1) #332/333. Doom has a great way to sneak into the Avenger's mansion. Pre-Triumph & Torment, so he's trying to save his mom's soul. But it's done very well. Art by Paul Ryan, who does a great Doom in my opinion.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm fond of Cloak and Dagger #10 [Volume 2]. The premise is Doom doesn't think the world is ready for nuclear power and decide to take it away from everyone.

Power Pack #53, a Acts of Vengeance tie-in. Doom's role is small, mostly listening to Typhoid Mary recount her encounter with the Pack. But the ending features, I think, a great character moment for Doom. A rare moment where Doom shows his love of his father. A relationship which is not touched on very often. Strange given that he knew his father much longer than his mother. There's some drama that could be mined there.

Avengers (volume 1) #332/333. Doom has a great way to sneak into the Avenger's mansion. Pre-Triumph & Torment, so he's trying to save his mom's soul. But it's done very well. Art by Paul Ryan, who does a great Doom in my opinion.

I think I used to have that Cloak and Dagger one before I moved anyway. But I know you've mentioned the Power Pack story before and I really need to track this one down, maybe on Marvel Unlimited since I have a sub there. I really think that Victor's relationship with his father has been sorely neglected by writers. I think they forget that even in Stan and Jack's origin, it was his father's death that really played a role in his youth.

[Gigglesdemon]

I'm fond of Cloak and Dagger #10 [Volume 2]. The premise is Doom doesn't think the world is ready for nuclear power and decide to take it away from everyone.

Power Pack #53, a Acts of Vengeance tie-in. Doom's role is small, mostly listening to Typhoid Mary recount her encounter with the Pack. But the ending features, I think, a great character moment for Doom. A rare moment where Doom shows his love of his father. A relationship which is not touched on very often. Strange given that he knew his father much longer than his mother. There's some drama that could be mined there.

Avengers (volume 1) #332/333. Doom has a great way to sneak into the Avenger's mansion. Pre-Triumph & Torment, so he's trying to save his mom's soul. But it's done very well. Art by Paul Ryan, who does a great Doom in my opinion.

They actually used to have that issue of Cloak and Dagger at my local shop, but I kept waffling on getting it due to its pretty poor condition and now it is gone. Kind of kicking myself for not getting it. I don't remember those Avengers issues, which bothers me since I swear I have read em.

[Master Planner]

Now,i don't want to sound as a party crusher and i am a big fan of Dr Doom,but did anyone felt that Hickman writes Doom a bit of Mary Sue-ish?

[Iron Maiden]

No character created by Stan and Jack is a Mary Sue IMO, if you go by the original definition of an author inserting a new character in an established cast that outshines everyone.

[Ravin' Ray]

There's something about Doom and a Richards child on a cover that has a strange appeal to me. It first started with Hickman's FF #13, now it's in the Runaways variant cover as well.

Notice how Doom crosses his arms in reverse between the two covers.

[Iron Maiden]

Cool! I remember the cover with Val in the original previews but the figure in the back was left vacant for spoiler reasons. It's funny how some stories these past few years have been linking him with the children. I know some FF fans aren't real fond of that due to his past history with Franklin.

[Gigglesdemon]

Now,i don't want to sound as a party crusher and i am a big fan of Dr Doom,but did anyone felt that Hickman writes Doom a bit of Mary Sue-ish?

I can see what you are getting at, but Hickman is pretty consistent in his portrayal of Doom as an incredibly arrogant, but incredibly intelligent, man. Sometimes his arrogance prevents him from seeing simple solutions or leading his plans to blowing up in his face. We are only in the beginning of the finale, so it makes sense to have the Big Bad to be in his greatest point of power before his eventual downfall (Which I would be very surprised if Doom didn't fall). I just think that Hickman often takes into account one of Doom's characterization from Byrne and Shooter in that Doom often sees a much larger picture than most of the major Marvel players and acts accordingly. But once again his arrogance will be his downfall.

[The Overlord]

No character created by Stan and Jack is a Mary Sue IMO, if you go by the original definition of an author inserting a new character in an established cast that outshines everyone.

Perhaps Mary Sue is not the right term, but there is always a danger Dr. Doom can fall into this trope:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...incibleVillain

I think sometimes the writers over play Reed's scientific abilities to the point he becomes this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...InvincibleHero

[Master Planner]

No character created by Stan and Jack is a Mary Sue IMO, if you go by the original definition of an author inserting a new character in an established cast that outshines everyone.

During Lee and Kirby no,but i feel that Hickamn tends to write Doom as too grey and more perfect than most.It's his inner fanboy that makes Doom in his stories as the top dog.Don't get me wrong,i love that after a long time,Doom is in the center of the story,but it's not right if people like Richards,T'Challa and Tony look like incompetent jerks and Doom as the man who has the keys for the survival of the universe.

Although,i respect that Hickman showed a bit of Doom's petty character in SW#2.The guy not only became a God-Emperor,he literally stole Richards family.My dream would be the final battle being Reed vs Doom,but i see more of Reed and Doom vs Thanos and The Maker(Reed of earth-1610).

[xcoijoi]

During Lee and Kirby no,but i feel that Hickamn tends to write Doom as too grey and more perfect than most.It's his inner fanboy that makes Doom in his stories as the top dog.Don't get me wrong,i love that after a long time,Doom is in the center of the story,but it's not right if people like Richards,T'Challa and Tony look like incompetent jerks and Doom as the man who has the keys for the survival of the universe.

Although,i respect that Hickman showed a bit of Doom's petty character in SW#2.The guy not only became a God-Emperor,he literally stole Richards family.My dream would be the final battle being Reed vs Doom,but i see more of Reed and Doom vs Thanos and The Maker(Reed of earth-1610).

I badly want to see the Illuminati crew fall flat on their faces, and Victor have to pick them up. Too many painful memories of watching Von Doom lose when he's holding all the aces, and then have to be bailed out by the FF.

[Haquim]

During Lee and Kirby no,but i feel that Hickamn tends to write Doom as too grey and more perfect than most.It's his inner fanboy that makes Doom in his stories as the top dog.Don't get me wrong,i love that after a long time,Doom is in the center of the story,but it's not right if people like Richards,T'Challa and Tony look like incompetent jerks and Doom as the man who has the keys for the survival of the universe.

Although,i respect that Hickman showed a bit of Doom's petty character in SW#2.The guy not only became a God-Emperor,he literally stole Richards family.My dream would be the final battle being Reed vs Doom,but i see more of Reed and Doom vs Thanos and The Maker(Reed of earth-1610).

I disagree. If you read Hickman's FF you'll notice how he makes Reed much more of a Mary Sue than Doom. He actually had a whole storyline dedicated to how the council of Reeds hunted down Dooms across the multiverse, and in the end of his big arc Hickman had the FF save Doom from the reality where he raised himself as the creator god that was dethroned by his minions. Besides during previous runs, Reed alone was rarely a match for Doom, it took all of his family to overcome what basically was their archenemy. Hickman instead wrote a Reed able to defeat Doom alone only using technology and in NA he went so far as to have Reed threaten Doom at his own dinner table and Doom not responding in kind.

[Master Planner]

I disagree. If you read Hickman's FF you'll notice how he makes Reed much more of a Mary Sue than Doom. He actually had a whole storyline dedicated to how the council of Reeds hunted down Dooms across the multiverse, and in the end of his big arc Hickman had the FF save Doom from the reality where he raised himself as the creator god that was dethroned by his minions. Besides during previous runs, Reed alone was rarely a match for Doom, it took all of his family to overcome what basically was their archenemy. Hickman instead wrote a Reed able to defeat Doom alone only using technology and in NA he went so far as to have Reed threaten Doom at his own dinner table and Doom not responding in kind.

I talk mostly about the Avenger's run,where Illuminati are a bunch of incompetent geniuses,while Doom is the man who sees the big picture about the Ivory Kings,he is Rabum Alal and pretty much saves what remains of the Multiverse into Battleworld.You know,it's something wrong when the only guy who sees the true problem is a power-hungry dictator,while the so called heroes act like jerks,semi-villains or having total moral absolutism(i'm looking at you,Steve Rogers!!).

[Haquim]

I talk mostly about the Avenger's run,where Illuminati are a bunch of incompetent geniuses,while Doom is the man who sees the big picture about the Ivory Kings,he is Rabum Alal and pretty much saves what remains of the Multiverse into Battleworld.You know,it's something wrong when the only guy who sees the true problem is a power-hungry dictator,while the so called heroes act like jerks,semi-villains or having total moral absolutism(i'm looking at you,Steve Rogers!!).

Actually Doom can do that because of his well established background: he understands science AND magic both on a level no one else does. Sure Strange is a better mage, sure Richards is slightly better as a scientist, but neither of them can understand the intricacies of the other one's "field of work". Doom can, that's why Molecule Man says he's the only person who can deal with the present crisis (besides being one of the most accomplished time travellers).

As for Hickman's NA run, consider Doom does actually do very little until the very end. We see how he finds a piece of the Mapmaker's rogue planet an how he pieces the map togheter, and of course in the end there's the great reveal he's been Rabum Alal all along (because of time travel) but NA is much more about Namor vs T'challa or Tony and Reed vs Black Swan than about Doom, until the very end.

[Anubhavkumarc]

Can I post "ALL HAIL GOD DOOM" here?