Doctor Doom Appreciation

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Doctor Doom by Dave Cockrum
http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com/dave-cockrum-birthday
http://diversionsofthegroovykind.blo...ms-legion.html

[Darthkostis]

From Tumblr:

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[The Whovian]

From Tumblr:

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Hmmmmm, I'm not sure I like that direction.

[Darthkostis]

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure I like that direction.

Same here. I don't like retcons that are 70 years too late, especially ones that have to do with a character's behaviour. Tumblr is filled to the brim with "fan theories" (most of the time it's just an excuse for them to draw slash fic) and it seems to me Bendis got influenced by it. I mean, what's the point of making Victor have a mental illness? Bouts of depression I can kinda get behind, but if they go with the autistic/bipolar cliche, I'll be dissapointed. Sure, he's driven and sometimes overreacts, but he's a comic book villain, that's his "job"!

[Iron Maiden]

I don't know, that may actually be an interesting development and it really is supported in the comics. Doom has had phases of extreme behavior, which I mostly attribute to an unimaginative take by the writer. But take a second look at the lead up to Fantastic Four #200. He does have a complete mental breakdown by the end of that arc.

[Abe]

Thanks for the info, Darthkostis !

Well... In the GN Emperor Doom, Victor is kinda bipolar : it works. But it's not a story about psychological realism - more a funny philosophical-satirical tale IMHO.

Elsewhere he has good reasons to feel depressed, but I won't see his ascension to god-status as an effect of some maniac phase. I won't event comment the autistic cliché : Victor is brilliant, but - in his strange ways - perfectly able to relate to others.

I also haven't read enough stuffs by Bendis to know how he deals with character's psychological analysis, so... wait and see...

EDIT : Hi, Iron Maiden ! FF #200 is worth considering indeed...

[Abe]

Yeah, I sometimes wish comics were written more densely like in the Silver Age. The trade off is that the art is not so limited to the resources of the times and we get some wonderful coloring and shading.

About density, have you tried Maximum Fantastic Four? It was a great experiment for me : even the first issue of the FF can be read like a full graphic novel... I would like to read a Maximum Annual 2, among others...

I am also getting used to Maleev's Doom although I admit to a fondness for David Marquez when he introduced us to the new Victor von Doom. He looks closer to the young Victor Kirby did.

That's true, but not close enough IMHO.

I forgot the Mad Thinker's real name but that is him. I would like to see him as a sort of flunky that works for Victor from time to time an Igor to Dr. Frankenstein.

It would be very cool. Victor needs an Igor. He needs his Boris too !!! (Igor and Boris were proverbial for my brother and me when we were younger... Even today we still use those names when we talks politics : some leaders use to nominate very bad "Igor" to help them...)

Anyway, Julius shouldn't be that much surprised : Victor wasn't that evil when they teamed up in Hickman's FF IIRC. The last time we saw him, he helped Victor in his researches about the incursions, so helping humanity is not that unusual too. I wonder if they will have a talk about that... Probably not !

[Iron Maiden]

About density, have you tried Maximum Fantastic Four? It was a great experiment for me : even the first issue of the FF can be read like a full graphic novel... I would like to read a Maximum Annual 2, among others...

I've never heard of Maximum Fantastic Four so I am curious to hear more about it from you.

It would be very cool. Victor needs an Igor. He needs his Boris too !!! (Igor and Boris were proverbial for my brother and me when we were younger... Even today we still use those names when we talks politics : some leaders use to nominate very bad "Igor" to help them...)

Anyway, Julius shouldn't be that much surprised : Victor wasn't that evil when they teamed up in Hickman's FF IIRC. The last time we saw him, he helped Victor in his researches about the incursions, so helping humanity is not that unusual too. I wonder if they will have a talk about that... Probably not !

Yes, I find Bendis plays very loose when it comes to continuity. The Mad Thinker was very eccentric under Hickman but he was working with Doom. I really can't see why he would find Doom's attempt at doing some good for humanity as "selling out" and disgusting. Years ago, editors were like continuity cops and would try to keep things straight. And Secret Wars and the New Avengers prelude wasn't even that long ago.

I think I may try getting Bendis to answer a few questions such as does he plan on using either Boris or Kristoff at some point. We've not seen Boris for quite a few now, back in Hickman's Fantastic Four when Victor's brain needed healing.

To revisit the Bendis and the fan question about Doom possibly being bi-polar, I think I'd rather see than have him be mad as a hatter. At least in the case of being bi-polar, that is treatable with medication. I recall in Fraction's Fantastic Four story that revisited Doom's origin, Reed told Ben then Victor was insane for trying to contact the dead. I thought considering Reed's dealings with Doctor Strange and Agatha Harkness plus Ben's death in the Mark Waid run, he should know better than that.

At least in the case of being bi-polar, that is treatable with medication.

[Abe]

About Maximum Fantastic Four, it's a project by Walter Mosley : http://www.cbr.com/walter-mosley-mar...antastic-four/

You can have a look at the book here :http://www.lupuslibri.pl/2015/08/max...stic-four.html

I can't write more for now - but the first time I heard about this book was on cbr : I think that Maven referred to it once in order to prove how Kirby's art was great to one of those strange comicfans who don't seem to appreciate the full genius of the King...

[Ravin' Ray]

After seeing this buildable, poseable LEGO Darth Vader, I want to see a Doctor Doom version. After all, Victor pretty much inspired Anakin's creation. I love LEGO (I collected Lego land in my youth), so I want to combine my two likes into one.
https://shop.lego.com/en-US/Darth-Vader-75111

[Iron Maiden]

I'd love to see that too. Speaking of lego, up until a few years ago Doom was usually included in the Marvel Lego sets. Now it's mostly Loki I think. But a few years back I picked up this custom Lego on eBay. I thought it was clever that the maker included miniature prints of MSH#20 and a variant Lego cover that was an homage.

[Darthkostis]

Re: Mental Ilness

I'd be okay with depression and maybe Victor being bipolar, but autism is where I draw the line. He never exhibited any of the symptoms and it really adds nothing to the character, apart from 12 year olds on Tumblr drawing smut pics, writting slash fics and talking about their "cinnamon roll". He just grew up quickly due to the events in his life. I mean, if you look at his behaviour throughout his history, he displays a whole lot of emotion and has no problem with social affairs. Besides, the "super-genius autistic", while a movie trope, is pretty rare, and is more often than not, connected with just one or two areas. Victor is a polymath, a modern day Da Vinci. So, yeah, I'll be dissapointed if Bendis retcons something this major. Besides, it's cliche as hell at this point, so what's the point?

[Iron Maiden]

Re: Mental Ilness

I'd be okay with depression and maybe Victor being bipolar, but autism is where I draw the line. He never exhibited any of the symptoms and it really adds nothing to the character, apart from 12 year olds on Tumblr drawing smut pics, writting slash fics and talking about their "cinnamon roll". He just grew up quickly due to the events in his life. I mean, if you look at his behaviour throughout his history, he displays a whole lot of emotion and has no problem with social affairs. Besides, the "super-genius autistic", while a movie trope, is pretty rare, and is more often than not, connected with just one or two areas. Victor is a polymath, a modern day Da Vinci. So, yeah, I'll be dissapointed if Bendis retcons something this major. Besides, it's cliche as hell at this point, so what's the point?

I really don't think that autism fits the character's history and I didn't like it when Morrison used it to apply to Reed in Fantastic Four 1234. Victor has had a few personal relationships as with Boris, Kristoff, Valeria and I'd even count Namor. He's always been a rather solitary figure and that was heightened with the death of his father. I still think writers overlook that with how much of an impact that had. He was sort of thrust into a leadership role in his tribe at a very young age, mostly because there was no one to take on their oppressors as aggressively has he did. As he matured he found there was really no one that could converse with him on his level. The adults were like children to him. He carried around a lot of grief and anger about his father. Maybe killing the old Baron was a bit of a catharsis but it's still an old wound.




I try and stay away from fan fiction since I also find it a quagmire. It kind of started with some of of the Loki/Doom stuff out there. There is some that is very good but the others you pretty much covered. I did happen to find some done by one of the former posters here, nomadic writer. Through that link I have found some less dicey stories. But the awful slash fic pretty much infects a lot of characters. I

[yet another]

Stan Lee Explains Why Doctor Doom Isn’t a Villain

[Iron Maiden]

God Bless Stan Lee