Doctor Doom Appreciation

[Abe]

Well done, Coulson!

.....

It's good to read comments with a more positive feeling than mine. That the Hood was only a vessel - consumed now I hope - gives a little bit more sense to that part of Vic's journey. Was it for Mephisto - not bad - or any other demonic transdimensional entity, I don't know, but I can deal with that.

Maybe that's even the reason why Stark decides to get into the magical side of the universe and become a future Sorcerer Supreme : to understand what Victor did and try to warn him not to.

It's in fact pretty cool. Too bad it's just a supposition and not something actually told in the book...

......

About Val - and Reed - meeting the pretty face version of Doom, it's such a wasted opportunity!

Thanks everyone here who pointed to it, because I wasn't clearly aware that it was precisely the part of the story I wanted to read when the FF will return. Even more than Doom's journey to redemption - are IPs supposed to progress and involve? - I really needed the story of his obvious epiphany to be told in a few more issues taking SW in account... Hey, maybe that's why I was keeping investing my money in those stories... I should have known better... foolish me... lol.

......

At least M2i1 in a few days seems pretty cool!

Yeah!!!

[Abe]

So do I. There's nothing wrong with exploring the back story of a character but with Bendis, he's notorious for either ignoring it or simply not knowing it. I really think the only Doom stories he remembers is the time travel issue in Iron Man #150 and the GN Triumph and Torment. I can't remember him ever bringing up Kristoff or Boris whereas Hickman did.


I think it's a shame that with the events of Invincible IM that Val never will get to see Victor's human face, just the mask again. Their relationship is such that she considers him a relative, even though the rest of the FF don't. I also wonder if Slott will just forget about Amara and the baby. I hope not and since he will be on both Iron Man and Fantastic Four I hope it is followed up. After all, Amara dated Tony and slept with him at least once. Amara was attracted to Victor right off the bat, even if Deodato photo referenced Vincent Cassel. I just don't find him all that attractive. Good actor though.

I definitively LOVE those panels. When Bendis can be perfect!

[Abe]

Doom is mentioned in this week's Champions, when
spoilers:

the Master of the World pontificates to the local Inuit about how he will save the world from global warming in exchange for ruling it in the future, and brushes off a snowball thrown to his face after the Champions warily eye him, and Riri Williams says "That look the Master gave back there… pure Doctor Doom." to which Miles Morales concurs. I guess in the eyes of Riri if you've seen one world-conquering despot you've seen them all.

end of spoilers

Cool standart to judge megalomaniac guys! And cool to know that this old Byrne's Alpha Flight villain is still around. I was really impressed by those issues as a kid... Very cool lovecraftian backstory for the cute short-haired Marrina (the 12 yo me wrote that line)

[Iron Maiden]

Well done, Coulson!

.....

It's good to read comments with a more positive feeling than mine. That the Hood was only a vessel - consumed now I hope - gives a little bit more sense to that part of Vic's journey. Was it for Mephisto - not bad - or any other demonic transdimensional entity, I don't know, but I can deal with that.

Maybe that's even the reason why Stark decides to get into the magical side of the universe and become a future Sorcerer Supreme : to understand what Victor did and try to warn him not to.

It's in fact pretty cool. Too bad it's just a supposition and not something actually told in the book...

......

About Val - and Reed - meeting the pretty face version of Doom, it's such a wasted opportunity!

Thanks everyone here who pointed to it, because I wasn't clearly aware that it was precisely the part of the story I wanted to read when the FF will return. Even more than Doom's journey to redemption - are IPs supposed to progress and involve? - I really needed the story of his obvious epiphany to be told in a few more issues taking SW in account... Hey, maybe that's why I was keeping investing my money in those stories... I should have known better... foolish me... lol.

......

At least M2i1 in a few days seems pretty cool!

Yeah!!!

I can't wait....but it will be a bit of a downer since unless something pops up in June/July that I've forgotten about, Invincible IM #600 is the last time we will see Victor with his true face. BTW, didn't you think it was pretty creepy that the Demon/Hood entity wanted to kiss him? Yikes! Jim Cheung's Victor is a good standard to go out with though.

[Abe]

I can't wait....but it will be a bit of a downer since unless something pops up in June/July that I've forgotten about, Invincible IM #600 is the last time we will see Victor with his true face. BTW, didn't you think it was pretty creepy that the Demon/Hood entity wanted to kiss him? Yikes! Jim Cheung's Victor is a good standard to go out with though.

My "yeah" was bittersweet tbh.

I guess that M2i1 will feature the Vic with a face till the annual....

And I didn't notice that kids! Or the reference to the future male heir... I read the issue really quickly... Very quickly... and I skipped many pages. (What would have been the point to bother with those with Leoarnado when I had the 5th issue of SHIELD to read instead? I'm not that masochistic...)

[Iron Maiden]

My "yeah" was bittersweet tbh.

I guess that M2i1 will feature the Vic with a face till the annual....

And I didn't notice that kids! Or the reference to the future male heir... I read the issue really quickly... Very quickly... and I skipped many pages. (What would have been the point to bother with those with Leoarnado when I had the 5th issue of SHIELD to read instead? I'm not that masochistic...)

Bendis's Leonardo da Vinci was terrible. I've got to go back and read Hickman's SHIELD but da Vinci didn't have a "voice" any different from Tony's or Rhodey's . IMO there should be at least some hint in his speech that this a man who was born about 500 years ago! On a bit of a tangent....what a meeting that would be if Victor was there! They both have interests in the sciences and the arts. Doom is a pretty good example of a modern day polymath for the comic book universe.

[Abe]

Please stop pointing missed opportunities, IM!

(I really wished that all the stories Hickman told for Marvel would have converged in the end in of SHIELD... But even if I didn't understand much of the last issue I don't think it will be what happens. But I still kinda believe that it was his first project - thus his use of the 69s dates... A story tied to the one told in SW. )

[Iron Maiden]

I know, I know....the missed opportunities are really coming up in my mind now. Remember how we were "teased" that Infamous Iron Man was going to be an Avenger? Well, it was just a short arc, guest appearance.

My next project should be to catch up on the SHIELD. It's been so long I forgot where it left off. I do remember how he tied it in to the Fantastic Four. When Howard Stark and Nathaniel Richards got caught up with Night Machine's time device ( I know I'm probably getting that wrong), it caused all of Nathaniel's versions of himself to be moved to the one timeline. And then Immortus declared that there should be a Great Hunt until it got down to just one of them. Then we had that flashback to Ben, Reed and Victor's college days and Victor picking Robert Oppenheimer's brain for his knowledge

[Abe]

Exactly... And Oppenheimer was a person of interest for Hickman at the time. Not only it gave us the wonderful DoomScribe's signature, but he's (with his twin) also a prominent character in Manhattan Projects- I've finally decide yo get and read it this month. Fun and clever. Better than what I've expected.

[Iron Maiden]

Exactly... And Oppenheimer was a person of interest for Hickman at the time. Not only it gave us the wonderful DoomScribe's signature, but he's (with his twin) also a prominent character in Manhattan Projects- I've finally decide yo get and read it this month. Fun and clever. Better than what I've expected.

I should check that out too!

[Coulson]

Costume rant incoming, feel free to scroll past.

I respect that comic artists have a big job, not only do they have to be good at drawing people, but also buildings, interiors, vehicles and basically everything in the world of the comic. However as a costume designer, I do find it interesting when they don't seem to fully consider the story they are telling with their costume choices. Take this example from Fantastic Four #581:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/XNoepKYZ5ie...OoQcQAw2=s1600

This is supposed to be Victor and Reed during their college years, and yet my first thought was that this was somehow Doom as an adult (it does't help that he is drawn of indeterminate age). If someone gave me a script and it described a character in his late teens, of little or no disposable income, is Romani, from some obscure European nation, no way in hell am I dressing him in a three piece suit! This looks like a Victor at the end of his journey, not the beginning, as we see this is essentially how post-Secret Wars Doom dresses. It's hard to tell what era this is supposed to be, though 1980's seems like a safe bet. Reed and Ben are seen wearing sweaters, not unlike the way they've always been depicted at this age. College fashion has of course become increasingly casual over the decades, but Doom's attire would be considered too formal for college in any context. So how can we interpret this? Well if we take this costume choice as deliberate, it says he is trying way too hard, and based on Reed's comments here, it's likely Victor is trying to give off an air of superiority. But how did he afford it? I also find this suit deprives us of a look at a fledgling Doom, to see him wearing cheap clothes, or Latverian clothes or trying to adopt American fashion. This is an age where most people are discovering themselves, even someone with a powerful personality like Doom is going to have to go through a bit of trial and error.

Also red tie with a green waistcoat? Calm down, Victor. Is it Christmas?

By contrast, the costume choices in Books of Doom are pretty great, his tribe is seen wearing a mixture of contemporary casual clothing, as well as more traditional European attire. At this age (in #2), he's seen wearing jeans, a leather jacket, t-shirts, button-down shirts and sweater vests. So very normal, safe choices, he's aware of his appearance and makes an effort to look presentable, but isn't trying to make a statement. His focus is on his studies and his work.

[SuperiorIronman]

During a convention I was at they had a formal which I brought a suit for. Interestingly enough the green vest I bought prior happened to be similar to the one Victor wears in the early Bendis Iron man. That cost about 20-30 dollars.
My suit itself actually came out of a Goodwill, which ran only 50 dollars. It's not well fitted, it's a little loose, but I match the build for the suit well enough it didn't matter as much. Especially not now because I grew into it.

Assuming Doom thrift shops and had access to a decent tailor to maybe fit him, he could very easily spend below 200-100 dollars on a nice suit.

[bubibartra]

I didn't think it was too bad, but yeah. It does sound like Marvel is pushing to get Doom back to his pre-Secret Wars self. It's fairly consistent with what they've been doing lately with other characters. They've been getting back to basics with classic Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America returning to the fold. I guess that extends to the villains too. I just hope that Doom retains some of the changes he's undergone since Secret Wars. Just throwing it all away at this point and reverting him completely would just be a waste of good character development.

I am an optimist after what I saw because it could have been much worse

that is to say, I already ime imagined the worst scenario: Doom in with the shattered face and also love and the dead baby

Because you already know .. bendis

It's not the first time he has a good character after a great event to nowhere. And then the next one does not know what to do (remember Cyclops)
*

At least Victor has Slott, who seems interested in the character.

Slott may or may not like it, but he is usually one of the writers who has the most independence from editorial designs.

As Marvel has been in these years, I only hope that the characters that I do not like do not remain in too bad positions

Amara and the baby are still alive. Ok, the theme of Victor's face can really be whistled when they want. In fact with the Marvel world technology able to clone, regenerate and create new whole bodies I do not know how Victor can not get a new face,

I do not know what's going to happen with Amara but it's the kind of story that Slott does not usually overlook.

[Iron Maiden]

I could see him having maybe one good suit, and the thrift store option is a good point. It could be that one of his tribe had the skills of a tailor or they could have altered perhaps the one suit his father had. But I do agree with Coulson that when you consider the sliding time scale Reed, Victor and Ben's college years would definitely be in an era where almost no one wore a suit to classes...and that would include the teachers! It was understandable when Kirby drew the origin story in the early 1960s but I can't see that happening after the 1970s with the flower child era, etc.

And sometimes I have to roll my eyes a bit when every time Doom is drawn in "normal" attire, it's always green! I suppose it's a visual clue to the readers. The first time we'd seen Doom without armor in public was probably Unthinkable unless you want to consider his "Road Warrior" look in the Doom mini series. Or that time he disguised himself as a janitor in the Baxter Building!

The suit was a dark color, maybe dark green but it least not a Christmas tree green! But I really didn't like the mask. The lips were weird IMO. And I don't even want to get into how his hair would disappear over the years!

[JasonEsta]

You know...all this time. I dont recall one discussion over Dr Doom on Spiderman TAS. The accent...the Secret Wars animated story of him going after the Beyonder..how he was defeated..how Thing was loyal to him for curing him.