Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2018

[sorboares]

But thats how the look and tone makes it feel. They have made her feel lesser than the other characters!

[Leonardo]

I get the intentions behind it from a design perspective, and I will say that overall it's a very well-designed and striking outfit, but I've never been fans of Superhero suits that look more like cosplay's or real clothes then actual costumes, which the Burnside outfit often comes across as to me and it often feels weird to see it next to the other Batfamily members.

It also feels more like a "first try" or makeshift costume then it does one for a fully-fledged and experienced Batgirl that Babs is (ostensibly) supposed to be. That was part of the reasoning for why the suit was used for her cameo in Bad Blood, because it was meant to indicate that Barbara had just started her career as a vigilante.

I agree. I love the Gail Simone-era armored costume. They say that the clothes make the man/woman--in any well-told story, the clothes tell a lot about the character's background (think Dragonball Z). So it makes sense that Babs would take the extra effort to protect her spine. The re-design doesn't really reflect the characteristics of Babs that make her unique. Instead, it's more of the makers trying to make her unique just for the sake of it. Just my opinion!

[Caivu]

I want to see a girl/woman who is strong n mature and smart!

In the Burnside era, Barbara:

-Tricks a cyborg into scanning a QR code that uploads a disabling computer worm into his system

- Later beats the crap out of that same cyborg after being unconscious for almost a full day

- Wrestles and outruns a tiger after tackling it out of the air

- Helps clear a building full of terrorists

- Survives falling from the Burnside Bridge, which is 275 feet tall, and lands in the water without injury

- Cuts open her own neck with a Batarang to disable her neural chip to stop it being controlled

- Memorizes a map after just one glimpse

- Confuses an advanced AI to stall it so it can be shut down

-Wrote a predictive crime algorithm based on her own brain scan

And that's not even everything. Do these somehow not fit your criteria...?

[RedQueen]

I agree she accomplished a lot in Burnside, I wasn't a fan of the personally life stuff though. but yeah I thought some of the fights were pretty rad.

Only thing I don't buy would be that Babs needed to team up with Steph to take down an expert martial artist. I get that Spoiler was progressing but Barbara at this stage should be so advance to take someone of a high caliber down or least put up a massive fight. I wouldn't even think for Babs to let someone as new as Steph to join in the fight just because of that hero code to not put the newbies into that serious of situation right away.

I'm glad that Babs is getting a journey into martial arts in Rebirth, because I kind of think she lost a bit of street cred with her relying so much on side characters to help her.

[millernumber1]

Then she should be written as such, especially in Rebirth. Barbara Gordon back in the cowl should have always been an unholy combination of Silver Age Batgirl attitude and fighting skills paired with the leadership, strategic mind, and overwhelming technological advantages of Oracle. Someone who's a peer of the Nightwing who could be Batman at the drop of a hat. Instead, we got a New 52 street level vigilante mostly portrayed as less of a threat than any of the boys, than a turn towards a more stylish variation on Steph's formula as a spunky college kid.

I'll hold that a Babs written respectful of her accrued bad assery is the best Batgirl. But she better be written that way first.

Well said. Why did Babs lose her network of operatives when she became Batgirl again? And her ability to use technology to stop crime, which should be enhanced, not downgraded, by mobility. Why doesn't she have something like Tim Drake's wrist computer, or better (since she should be better than Tim at computers - a cowl computer with a full Oracle link)? Babs has not proved anything to me except that more people know her name. Not to mention the Burnside run turned her time as the premiere intelligence operative of the DC Universe into a bad Skynet creator.

Yeah I think Barbara's redesign in 2014 was a big downgrade for her character. I was a pretty big fan of hers before then, but now she just feels like the most disengaged member of the Bat-family. She seems so out of place with them now both in terms of appearance and the tone of her stories. Like a kid-friendly version of a Batman character that was transplanted into the main Batman books.

I think that's very deliberate - DC is deliberately trying to appeal to both the DC Super Hero Girls audience and normal Batfamily fans, and the result is too much in the middle to really please either. I hated the Burnside run (and to be fair, the Simone run before it), but I'm enjoying the Larson run as a fun comic with vague connections to the character I liked before. But Birds of Prey is moving much more strongly in the direction that I would like to see from Babs - hopefully once they resolve the Oracle plot, they will build her back into the pillar of the superhero universe she was before.

Are they all suppose to be the same? There's nothing wrong with being directed at different markets, where trendy costumes have appeal, with stories where the focuse is on personal drama as much as it is on super heroics. If not more. In a world with Batwoman they had to start looking at different avanues with one of them. Having a different apparence and a different tone to her stories I actually see as a benefit. I might get a bit tired of the cartoony villains and threats, but I still think its better for her and her stories to offer something different than everybody else's.

Batgirl and the Birds of Prey has a very different tone from Batwoman (Rucka, Blackman/Williams, Andreyko, and Tynion), while still portraying Barbara as the kind of figure who can stand up to Batman without being disrespectful. I don't mind a different tone, and I don't mind appealing to the DC Super Hero Girls demographic - but they should do that in a DC Super Hero Girls book, instead of trying this in the mainstream DC Universe.

[millernumber1]

In the Burnside era, Barbara:

-Tricks a cyborg into scanning a QR code that uploads a disabling computer worm into his system

- Later beats the crap out of that same cyborg after being unconscious for almost a full day

- Wrestles and outruns a tiger after tackling it out of the air

- Helps clear a building full of terrorists

- Survives falling from the Burnside Bridge, which is 275 feet tall, and lands in the water without injury

- Cuts open her own neck with a Batarang to disable her neural chip to stop it being controlled

- Memorizes a map after just one glimpse

- Confuses an advanced AI to stall it so it can be shut down

-Wrote a predictive crime algorithm based on her own brain scan

And that's not even everything. Do these somehow not fit your criteria...?

Those are all feats of skill, not maturity. She's smart, yes, but she lacks all the wisdom she possessed as Oracle. And that's largely due to the way they keep de-aging her so that she's the same age as Nightwing. Her waffling about Frankie, the warping of her time as Oracle to creating the evil AI that she shuts down, and her ridiculously annoying romantic life all work against her real accomplishments.

I agree she accomplished a lot in Burnside, I wasn't a fan of the personally life stuff though. but yeah I thought some of the fights were pretty rad.

Only thing I don't buy would be that Babs needed to team up with Steph to take down an expert martial artist. I get that Spoiler was progressing but Barbara at this stage should be so advance to take someone of a high caliber down or least put up a massive fight. I wouldn't even think for Babs to let someone as new as Steph to join in the fight just because of that hero code to not put the newbies into that serious of situation right away.

I'm glad that Babs is getting a journey into martial arts in Rebirth, because I kind of think she lost a bit of street cred with her relying so much on side characters to help her.

As a huge fan of Steph (obviously), I disagree. Additionally, I don't think Babs needed to team up with Steph because of martial art skills - the first time they teamed up, it was to save Steph's life, and the second and third times, it was because the foe they faced was too numerous (and spread out) for anyone but maybe Cass or Batman to take down. I actually enjoyed Batgirl issues 46-52 a lot more than anything previous, because Batgirl seemed to be forming a new Birds of Prey and exercising the things that set her apart from Batwoman while still being a top tier superhero - mentoring and leading field operations.

[Caivu]

Those are all feats of skill, not maturity. She's smart, yes, but she lacks all the wisdom she possessed as Oracle. And that's largely due to the way they keep de-aging her so that she's the same age as Nightwing. Her waffling about Frankie, the warping of her time as Oracle to creating the evil AI that she shuts down, and her ridiculously annoying romantic life all work against her real accomplishments.

What specifically is immature about her, though? She never struck me as that. Just because she might be lacking in her previous wisdom doesn't mean she's immature.

[millernumber1]

What specifically is immature about her, though? She never struck me as that. Just because she might be lacking in her previous wisdom doesn't mean she's immature.

Getting blackout drunk in the first issue, letting popularity go to her head so much that it interferes with her relationships and her crimefighting, letting her anger control her so that she creates the evil AI instead of becoming the positive force of Oracle, and I hate to repeat it, but her romantic life (until Luke) was really immature. You could handwave some of these away as "this if the first arc after Simone's grimdark silliness, so she's recovering and finding her balance from all that nonsense," but it doesn't really make her look more mature, I believe. Not to mention whining about her friends and former roommate not being available because she's on her honeymoon. Elena Carrillo's reviews of the Burnside run also detail (sometimes excruciatingly) Babs's immaturity during that period (http://batman-news.com/author/elena-carrillo/).

And as I said above, I thought by the end of the arc, Babs was showing a lot more maturity by mentoring people like Steph, Harper, and Frankie as new heros.

[Caivu]

Huh. I somehow missed all of that. I can see it now.

[Godlike13]

Batgirl and the Birds of Prey has a very different tone from Batwoman (Rucka, Blackman/Williams, Andreyko, and Tynion), while still portraying Barbara as the kind of figure who can stand up to Batman without being disrespectful. I don't mind a different tone, and I don't mind appealing to the DC Super Hero Girls demographic - but they should do that in a DC Super Hero Girls book, instead of trying this in the mainstream DC Universe.

Why? If there is a market for it, and people respond to it (which they have), why shouldn't DC capitalize on it in the mainstream DC Universe. Variety in tones and directions is not a bad thing. Different books, and different characters, should offer different things. Not everybody is gonna like everything, but thats ok. It doesn't make what they're doing with Babs less valid, or make her less than other characters, and it doesn't even stop them from doing different thing with Batgirl at the same time.

[millernumber1]

Why? If there is a market for it, and people respond to it (which they have), why shouldn't DC capitalize on it in the mainstream DC Universe. Variety in tones and directions is not a bad thing. Different books, and different characters, should offer different things. Not everybody is gonna like everything, but thats ok. It doesn't make what they're doing with Babs less valid, or make her less than other characters, and it doesn't even stop them from doing different thing with Batgirl at the same time.

I mean, you're right - it's their book, it's their appeal to the market, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just disappointing to some longtime fans like me who would prefer her to be Oracle, or at least have the maturity and experience of Oracle, and interconnected with the rest of the books. Sorry for the phrasing. I disagree with their choice, but it's not "wrong" for them to do it.

I do think that it really depends on what you mean by "less than other characters" - in terms of less interesting or worthwhile, absolutely I agree. Current Babs is a very interesting character, and I enjoy reading her series. But in terms of an in-universe measure of importance and skill? I don't think that's quite as subjective.

[Stormcrow]

DC announced Christian Wildgoose as the Batgirl artist taking over with issue #7 as Babs returns to Burnside. I'll miss Albuquerque but this looks good!

However, I am not sold on this "Son of Penguin" storyline, that kind of characters NEVER work. And yet another shady love interest for Babs? Really?

[batsgrayson]

The new artist looks good. That arc though... Stop giving her a new love interest for awhile, okay? Just stick with one and actually try to develop the relationship.

[AcesX1X]

i liked today's issue a lot. sad to see this artist go. not sure how i feel about batgirl dating the child of such an ugly goblin like the penguin

[millernumber1]

Wow, those preview images are gorgeous. Much as I love Albuquerque, there's a sketchiness to his current style on Batgirl that I'm not as big a fan of as, for example, when he did half of the Robin/Spoiler special with Chuck Dixon. Maybe it's the inker, maybe it's just a change in styles, but I really love the clean lines Wildgoose has here.

I agree with the "c'mon, another bad love interest" groans. I think that Larson is doing a good job with Babs handling Kai, not getting too hung up on him and making mature decisions, but I kinda want her to just hero for a while with friends, male and female, and not have half the plot revolve around love interests that are going nowhere. But at least it's not as bad as the first half of the Burnside run, where there was just a soap opera tangle of dropped romantic threads that were completely pointless. Even Luke and Babs, while sweet, wasn't handled with respect for either character. So far, Larson seems to be much more thoughtful about the way she's doing things.