Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2018

[RedQueen]

It better be a slow burn because no way would Babs get involved with someone so close to an enemy straight away, no matter if they're good or not.

And goddammit I hate Babs hooking up with civilian characters so I hope he's got something beyond being a techie. I wouldn't mind him being what Catwoman is to Bats for Barbara because if Babs is having a love life then at least make it a bit spicy. So I'm kind of hoping he takes after his father, but NOT the physical aspect because Oswald is, well, Oswald.

[Drako]

Is she going to have a new date for every arc? And people say that Dick is a ladies' man.

[millernumber1]

What'd people think of Babs's issue this week? I enjoyed it, especially with Babs kicking Kai to the curb. She's not uncaring, but she's way more mature in this run than the last one. The plot seems to be a bit more solid, too - or maybe I'm just getting into the flow of a new country every month.

[Batgirll]

I loved this insue, Babs, is great, she fall in the first fight, but she learned with this, to win after, she was smart about Kai, she was a little confused, but she is not a stupid girl and she is great like detective. I love this girl.
And about the son of Pinguin, well, if well written can be a great story, I´m curious, the risk is be only other story cliche.
P.S.: Ethan in sinopse looks like a charmig and handsome guy, how? I donpt know, maybe he is adopted.

[DoctorWho]

Getting blackout drunk in the first issue, letting popularity go to her head so much that it interferes with her relationships and her crimefighting, letting her anger control her so that she creates the evil AI instead of becoming the positive force of Oracle, and I hate to repeat it, but her romantic life (until Luke) was really immature. You could handwave some of these away as "this if the first arc after Simone's grimdark silliness, so she's recovering and finding her balance from all that nonsense," but it doesn't really make her look more mature, I believe. Not to mention whining about her friends and former roommate not being available because she's on her honeymoon. Elena Carrillo's reviews of the Burnside run also detail (sometimes excruciatingly) Babs's immaturity during that period (http://batman-news.com/author/elena-carrillo/).

And as I said above, I thought by the end of the arc, Babs was showing a lot more maturity by mentoring people like Steph, Harper, and Frankie as new heros.

Honestly, I think those mistakes are what really made the Burnside era interesting. Oracle was quite TOO good. I wouldn't expect a woman in her early 20s to not make mistakes, and I wouldn't even blame Batman for getting blackout drunk; the fact Burnside Babs isn't as perfect and mature as Oracle was makes her more relatable to me. I totally agree about the romantic life though, it was so forced and very annoying.

[godisawesome]

Honestly, I think those mistakes are what really made the Burnside era interesting. Oracle was quite TOO good. I wouldn't expect a woman in her early 20s to not make mistakes, and I wouldn't even blame Batman for getting blackout drunk; the fact Burnside Babs isn't as perfect and mature as Oracle was makes her more relatable to me. I totally agree about the romantic life though, it was so forced and very annoying.

I find that opinion on blackout drinking for Batgirl to be an interesting difference in the way some of us view both the heroes and ourselves; I immediately dismiss the idea that an intelligent young person, which pretty much all the Batkids are, wouldn't be stupid enough to get blackout drunk. But I also hail from a largely tea-totaling family, so to me, blackout drinking automatically equates to a certain lack of self control or gullibility, because my *personal* interpretation of that kind of drinking is that it's a foolish decision based off an erroneous analysis of the placebo effect of the "party hard= fun, party harder= more fun!" thought process. I know that's at least a somewhat inaccurate way to look at it, but it plays into the way I view the characters. Since I consider all the "orthodox" Batfamily members to be of exceptional self-discipline, early on-set wisdom, and "upstanding" life choices, hearing of Barbara getting blackout drunk made me kind just label the book as "stereotypical and shallow portrayal of hedonistic college life" and I never felt the desire to pick it up.

I mean, I expect flaws in my characters, but for the Batcharacters I expect more personality flaws that stand out compared to the general portrayal of their peers, and for them to be the kinds of flaws that even a wise man may have. The hard partying flaws always strike me as more of a Green Arrow thing.

[millernumber1]

Honestly, I think those mistakes are what really made the Burnside era interesting. Oracle was quite TOO good. I wouldn't expect a woman in her early 20s to not make mistakes, and I wouldn't even blame Batman for getting blackout drunk; the fact Burnside Babs isn't as perfect and mature as Oracle was makes her more relatable to me. I totally agree about the romantic life though, it was so forced and very annoying.

I strongly disagree that Oracle was perfect - I adored the way she was too controlling, had difficulty with her mentoring relationships with Cass and especially Helena - the arc where she manipulates Huntress and ends up almost destroying their relationship is a really great bit of writing by Gail Simone.

I find that opinion on blackout drinking for Batgirl to be an interesting difference in the way some of us view both the heroes and ourselves; I immediately dismiss the idea that an intelligent young person, which pretty much all the Batkids are, wouldn't be stupid enough to get blackout drunk. But I also hail from a largely tea-totaling family, so to me, blackout drinking automatically equates to a certain lack of self control or gullibility, because my *personal* interpretation of that kind of drinking is that it's a foolish decision based off an erroneous analysis of the placebo effect of the "party hard= fun, party harder= more fun!" thought process. I know that's at least a somewhat inaccurate way to look at it, but it plays into the way I view the characters. Since I consider all the "orthodox" Batfamily members to be of exceptional self-discipline, early on-set wisdom, and "upstanding" life choices, hearing of Barbara getting blackout drunk made me kind just label the book as "stereotypical and shallow portrayal of hedonistic college life" and I never felt the desire to pick it up.

I mean, I expect flaws in my characters, but for the Batcharacters I expect more personality flaws that stand out compared to the general portrayal of their peers, and for them to be the kinds of flaws that even a wise man may have. The hard partying flaws always strike me as more of a Green Arrow thing.

Also hailing from a largely non-drinking family, and the blackout drinking for Babs was also a huge turnoff for me in the Burnside run. In addition to not fitting with any portrayal of Babs in anything I've ever read, it's not even a particularly well-used bit of characterization. I agree that Batman and all of his family are not the type to do that kind of thing - not even the "wilder" ones like Steph or Jason. Babs and Bruce in particular, though, because of their obsession with control, really don't fit the "partying" type.

[Godlike13]

She didn't go in willfully thinking that she was gonna get blackout drunk. She started drinking and it happened, and it was never suppose to be in character or fit in with a previous portrayal. That was the whole point actually. She was purposely trying something she wouldn't usually do, in effort to change her situation and let loose, but because it was out of character and she wasn't the parting type, she didn't really know what she was doing. So she did it poorly, got too drunk, and created a mess for herself. And doing things that Batman and all of his family wouldn't do is not a bad thing.

[Carabas]

Honestly, I think those mistakes are what really made the Burnside era interesting. Oracle was quite TOO good. I wouldn't expect a woman in her early 20s to not make mistakes, and I wouldn't even blame Batman for getting blackout drunk; the fact Burnside Babs isn't as perfect and mature as Oracle was makes her more relatable to me. I totally agree about the romantic life though, it was so forced and very annoying.

Oracle was never in her early twenties though. I think of all Bat-characters, Babs was the one hit hardest with the de-age stick when the New 52 happened.

[DoctorWho]

I strongly disagree that Oracle was perfect - I adored the way she was too controlling, had difficulty with her mentoring relationships with Cass and especially Helena - the arc where she manipulates Huntress and ends up almost destroying their relationship is a really great bit of writing by Gail Simone.

My choice of words wasn't very fair at calling Oracle "perfect", but my point still stands in that Babs, as Oracle, was good at pretty much everything that required thinking. She was nearly always portrayed as the one who knew exactly what to do when the situation called for it, and even for a genius that can be very unrealistic, but I get the appeal.

Oracle was never in her early twenties though. I think of all Bat-characters, Babs was the one hit hardest with the de-age stick when the New 52 happened.

Yeah, and that's the point actually. Everybody got younger with the New 52, but the characters tended to be written in the same way their older versions were (and some as even more mature than their older versions), I won't expect a Barbara in her early 20s to have the same attitudes and decisions of a Barbara in her early 30s. We could discuss the act of de-ageing the characters, but then we'd have to start a conversation about the N52 as a whole.

EDIT: Now I checked that my original comment seemed to suggest that Oracle was in her early 20s. Wasn't what I meant, I'm sorry.

[DoctorWho]

BATGIRL: A CELEBRATION OF 50 YEARS HC
Written by GARDNER FOX, CHUCK DIXON, KELLEY PUCKETT, GAIL SIMONE and others
Art by CARMINE INFANTINO, MARCOS MARTIN, DAMION SCOTT, CAMERON STEWART, BABS TARR and others
Cover by MARCOS MARTIN
Some of Batgirl’s greatest adventures are collected in this new hardcover! Using her brain to outsmart her opponents, Batgirl stands strong against her enemies. Whether working with a team or venturing out on her own, Batgirl’s adaptability to situations makes her one of the most versatile and popular characters in the DC Universe.
On sale FEBRUARY 15 • 384 pg, FC, $39.99 US


BATGIRL: AN ADULT COLORING BOOK TP
Art by BABS TARR, CLIFF CHIANG, TERRY DODSON, CARMINE INFANTINO and others
Cover by BABS TARR
DC presents Batgirl in a whole new way: in black and white, on heavy stock suitable for coloring! Batgirl stars in a new coloring book focusing on her greatest covers, splash pages and more by some of comics’ top artists!
On sale FEBRUARY 22 • 96 pg, B&W, 7.5” x 8.5”, $15.99 US

[DoctorWho]

Batgirl #4 (EXCLUSIVE PREVIEW):
http://www.cbr.com/batgirl-4-3/

[millernumber1]

BATGIRL: A CELEBRATION OF 50 YEARS HC
Written by GARDNER FOX, CHUCK DIXON, KELLEY PUCKETT, GAIL SIMONE and others
Art by CARMINE INFANTINO, MARCOS MARTIN, DAMION SCOTT, CAMERON STEWART, BABS TARR and others
Cover by MARCOS MARTIN
Some of Batgirl’s greatest adventures are collected in this new hardcover! Using her brain to outsmart her opponents, Batgirl stands strong against her enemies. Whether working with a team or venturing out on her own, Batgirl’s adaptability to situations makes her one of the most versatile and popular characters in the DC Universe.
On sale FEBRUARY 15 • 384 pg, FC, $39.99 US

I love Batgirl Year One, so it's great to see its iconic images on the cover of this 50th anniversary anthology. I was really underwhelmed by the Wonder Woman 75th this year, so I'm apprehensive. It seems that Cass will get an issue, with Damion Scott credited - but I hope against hope that Steph will get an issue as well (I would pump for #3, though I'm expecting #1, if anything). And we're almost certainly getting Batgirl #35, though I'm curious about the Simone entry - possibly Batgirl #1?

[DoctorWho]

I love Batgirl Year One, so it's great to see its iconic images on the cover of this 50th anniversary anthology. I was really underwhelmed by the Wonder Woman 75th this year, so I'm apprehensive. It seems that Cass will get an issue, with Damion Scott credited - but I hope against hope that Steph will get an issue as well (I would pump for #3, though I'm expecting #1, if anything). And we're almost certainly getting Batgirl #35, though I'm curious about the Simone entry - possibly Batgirl #1?

Yeah, that's probably my favorite Batgirl image of ALL-TIME. But I don't see much sense at having both Cassie and Stephanie in this since it's 50 years of Barbara Gordon not Batgirl. Batte Kane debuted as Batgirl around five years before Barbara...

[millernumber1]

Yeah, that's probably my favorite Batgirl image of ALL-TIME. But I don't see much sense at having both Cassie and Stephanie in this since it's 50 years of Barbara Gordon not Batgirl. Batte Kane debuted as Batgirl around five years before Barbara...

That's not how they published the 75th anniversary of Robin, though. Every Robin, including Stephanie, Carrie, and the robot version from the One Million issue, was represented (though not the future Robin named Tris who was on a generation spaceship from Robin Annual #5, from the Legends of a Dead Earth event).

I think Steph and Cass deserve an issue in the 50 year celebration, especially since Barbara mentored both of them.