Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2018

[Frontier]

I think, whatever we can say about Brian Q. Miller, his writing of Steph as Batgirl was more well-rounded and better on a technical level then most of what we've gotten with Babs over the past few years.

[Red obin]

I think, whatever we can say about Brian Q. Miller, his writing of Steph as Batgirl was more well-rounded and better on a technical level then most of what we've gotten with Babs over the past few years.

Yeah, looking at it from a narrative stand point and not the characters themselves, that is definitively sacrosanct.

[RedQueen]

I think, whatever we can say about Brian Q. Miller, his writing of Steph as Batgirl was more well-rounded and better on a technical level then most of what we've gotten with Babs over the past few years.

Definitely. I think it packs a punch. Great art and writing. And definitely consistent. Awesome costume too.

Babs is definitely one of the characters I see in characterization purgatory atm. She is not Barbara as Batgirl anymore for me. She's so flat. The Batgirl solo movie might make DC wake up and give a damn but until then I'm actually considering dropping the solo just out of pure annoyance (i probably won't but I'm very tempted).

[millernumber1]

I think Barbara is being experimented on too much. Barbara is pretty perfect in BTAS, Batgirl Year One and a lot of older issues. There is a baseline available for Barbara as Batgirl.

I've been always against the view that for Barbara writers had no clear vision or had no idea what to do with the character when she's Batgirl, but past history aside she's had successful stories and adaptations.

Barbara's current writing sucks. Barbara just needs to get back her own basics. Personally with all the stuff Babs had to face with bad writing, I think she needs a seasoned writer. I'm kind of over her being used as a starting point for people breaking into the industry. Not against anything newbies having success or anything, it's just their formulas aren't working for Babs.

Bryan Q Miller is a good writer, but he really changed Steph for his vision of Batgirl, not it was a bad change but she became different. Same with Babs. Every writer has a different interpretation. Some work, others not so much.

I think BQM did change Steph a bit, though I think a lot of it was just the kind of writer he tends (tended? I haven't watched his television episodes for about five years, so I don't know what he's currently like, though all the shows he's been on seem a lot darker) to be a bright, witty writer. I still think that the overall argument that Steph lost all of her anger and so forth is wrong on two counts - 1) Steph's anger always seemed to be more circumstantial than inherent to her character, and 2) there are several distinct instances of Steph being angry in Batgirl (with Damian, Bruce, herself, and of course, her father).

Also, Simone was a seasoned writer, and she didn't really give Batgirl any seriously good stories (of course, the artwork she was saddled with didn't help at all, either).

True, I really need to read batgirl year one soon. As for BTAS i liked Barbara and thought she was well represented even if she wasn't my favourite character by far.

Do! Batgirl Year One is a fantastic series in both art and writing.

I think, whatever we can say about Brian Q. Miller, his writing of Steph as Batgirl was more well-rounded and better on a technical level then most of what we've gotten with Babs over the past few years.

Absolutely. I think the only real nits I'd pick would be the way the ending was clearly rushed by the ending of the universe. But even that worked on more levels than it didn't.

Definitely. I think it packs a punch. Great art and writing. And definitely consistent. Awesome costume too.

Babs is definitely one of the characters I see in characterization purgatory atm. She is not Barbara as Batgirl anymore for me. She's so flat. The Batgirl solo movie might make DC wake up and give a damn but until then I'm actually considering dropping the solo just out of pure annoyance (i probably won't but I'm very tempted).

Agreed. BQM constructed a solid, thoughtful, emotionally effective, and exciting narrative. I thought about adding Batgirl to my pull list, but Larson has really not impressed me at all. I mean, okay, she's impressed me more than Stewart and Fletcher, but that's a really, really low bar.

[Frontier]

I've been enjoying the current arc with Larson, but it's also convinced me I would probably enjoy her more on a teen Batgirl book .

[RedQueen]

I've been enjoying the current arc with Larson, but it's also convinced me I would probably enjoy her more on a teen Batgirl book .

That's pretty much where the disconnect happens for me. The story and writing is serviceable but it's not serviceable for what I want for Barbara's character.

I mean the teens in the Deathstroke solo have way more depth in characterization than Babs right now.

[sorboares]

Definitely. I think it packs a punch. Great art and writing. And definitely consistent. Awesome costume too.

Babs is definitely one of the characters I see in characterization purgatory atm. She is not Barbara as Batgirl anymore for me. She's so flat. The Batgirl solo movie might make DC wake up and give a damn but until then I'm actually considering dropping the solo just out of pure annoyance (i probably won't but I'm very tempted).

I know what u mean... Batgirl needs a soft reboot again. Needs a new costume more like her Gail Simone new 52 run. More adult stories, still can be fun but not so boring n childish. Barbara needs to be taken seriously again!

[Frontier]

Justice League Action Batgirl:

[MajorHoy]

Justice League Action Batgirl:

Since I'm not part of toonzone, I'm not seeing a picture.

[Frontier]

Since I'm not part of toonzone, I'm not seeing a picture.

How about now?

[millernumber1]

I know what u mean... Batgirl needs a soft reboot again. Needs a new costume more like her Gail Simone new 52 run. More adult stories, still can be fun but not so boring n childish. Barbara needs to be taken seriously again!

What I want is something like Batgirl: Year One. Something really well crafted, showing Babs as fun, but brilliant and competent. Right now, both the Batgirl series are not well crafted, and while Birds of Prey is fun, it's too slapdash. Larson's just doing slice of life with mandatory superheroics.

[Frontier]

What I want is something like Batgirl: Year One. Something really well crafted, showing Babs as fun, but brilliant and competent. Right now, both the Batgirl series are not well crafted, and while Birds of Prey is fun, it's too slapdash. Larson's just doing slice of life with mandatory superheroics.

Honestly it kind of saddens me that people are starting to think this wasn't the norm for Barbara as Batgirl pre-reboot.

Not that I'm a "Barbara Gordon as Batgirl absolutist" or anything, but I think there was more to her in that identity then modern writers have been able to capture in the comics for a while now.

[Confuzzled]

Justice League Action Batgirl:

Love it. Which episode is she going to debut in?

[Frontier]

Love it. Which episode is she going to debut in?

I don't think she's in any episodes actually (or webisodes), not even as a cameo.

I think Shane Glines (the character designer) did a lot of conceptual designs for characters even if they never actually appeared on the show. I know there are a few characters with designs (such as Reverse-Flash or Captain Cold) that never actually made full appearances.

[Assam]

Honestly it kind of saddens me that people are starting to think this wasn't the norm for Barbara as Batgirl pre-reboot.

Not that I'm a "Barbara Gordon as Batgirl absolutist" or anything, but I think there was more to her in that identity then modern writers have been able to capture in the comics for a while now.

Eh. While Miller's description is mostly accurate in general for Babsgirl's Pre-FP appearances, I would say that Year One is the only time that it was "well crafted", that being the only Babsgirl story ever that ranks as above average IMO.