DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[Primal Slayer]

I could definitely see Circe working with The Light if she had something to gain. She'd probably end just betraying the plan if it didnt suit her long term.

It just didn't ring true to Mary or the Marvel Family to me. Like I was waiting for her to show up and transform this whole time and that's how they handle it? Left a bad taste in my mouth.

I feel like they also went in a more generic direction for her hero design compared to, like, every other Mary Marvel design.

I was definitely hoping she'd transform in a more epic way since I feel like this was their way to get out of having her do so for the remainder of this arc.

Design wise...I was cool with it though I'd lose the hair tie and turn the cape red.

[Lukmendes]

I could definitely see Circe working with The Light if she had something to gain. She'd probably end just betraying the plan if it didnt suit her long term.

That makes me wonder if she'd even manage to become part of The Light, only Orm and Granny Goodness have betrayed it, and Orm was because Light kicked him out and he got butthurt, and Granny because she was put there so Darkseid can know what they're doing.

The Light is bizarrely good at having loyal people lol.

I was definitely hoping she'd transform in a more epic way since I feel like this was their way to get out of having her do so for the remainder of this arc.

Design wise...I was cool with it though I'd lose the hair tie and turn the cape red.

For fuck's sake, why am I so bad at keeping track of when the episodes come out? Was thinking it'd only come out in a few days...

Will watch that and make comments later lol.

[Psy-lock]

Didn't Circe join other versions of Legion of Doom? Then again, if she did, she might not be happy at following orders, if she even bothers with that much.

Even then, we have Luthor practically taking orders from Vandal and not trying to backstab him, YJ doesn't care about the usual characterization lol.

About Diana's other villains, from some I can think of, Cheetah basically offers nothing (Light's leaders all have some sort of big ass resource, to the point Ra's stopped being one of the leaders once he lost the League of Shadows), so she's out.

Well, it depends on which version we're talking about. Post-Crisis Cheetah is practically royalty, so she must be filthy rich. Rebirth Cheetah had a cult of worshippers and werecats.

[Mojo]

They'll just have Trigon join the Light

Or they'll stick him in a time skip. One season Raven will just be there and everybody will make vague comments about her father and maybe they'll have him show up stuck in her Chakra like the 2003 cartoon or the DTV series

Man if Raven is introduced into the show I hope Trigon is just timeskipped or never brought up, he's boring and I legit have no interest in the 700th possible Raven and Trigon story. It's all writers can seem to think of her for her to do and Trigon losing over and over and over to a bunch of teenagers has rendered him kind of a joke to him when it comes to him being threatening. He's this big cosmic bad guy but none of the other cosmic big bads seem to care about him and why would they? In actual action he's kind of a loser and he's done nothing for the last couple of decades but drag Raven down as a character via writers not letting able to let go of their connection.

Honestly Trigon is my biggest argument for NOT bringing Raven into the show because as much as YJ likes to subvert and depart from things I feel THAT they would be compelled to do.

As for Mary, I don't mind what their doing with her but I do think the whole "got addicted to the power and didn't want to transform back to her normal self" would work better with Freddy, easy enough to rationalize why someone who ether has to use crutches or a wheelchair might not want to go back to that when they can say a magic word and walk just fine, fly and be super strong. (It'd also probably have worked better if Weisman had gotten to tell that Marvel family story he wanted to tell in I forget if it was S2 or the tie-in comics but then couldn't because of lack of episodes and the tie-in being canceled. Presumably we'd of gotten some context there instead of having to be told it.)

I like the costume for her though, always liked White over Red for Mary as it sticks out from Billy more and well.. Pants>Skirts just as a matter of practicality (also reading though a bunch of 2000s stuff with Mary Marvel there's a lot of.. artist trying to sneak in upskirts and it was creepy and weird and kinda tainted it).

Also from everything that's been said about Ra's from himself and Vandal I don't think he was kicked out of the Light so much as he left it on his own accord and on good terms after S2, I guess what happened in it and then the birth of Damian changed his perspective on some things. It's pretty clearly brought up in S3 and 4 that his relationship with Vandal is still corrdial while other past members of the Light were basically dumped to the side once they were arrested, kicked out or whatever (I mean they even flat out had Orm killed). Like im sure if Savage wanted to he could get Black Manta and the Brain out of prison but he decided it's not worth it. With Ra's he clearly still sees him as a friend and ally, even offering him a chance to come to War World while this crazy magic battle goes on.

[Lukmendes]

Well, it depends on which version we're talking about. Post-Crisis Cheetah is practically royalty, so she must be filthy rich. Rebirth Cheetah had a cult of worshippers and werecats.

Post-Crisis Cheetah is made redundant by almost every member of the Light, most of them are rich in some way, so she'd need something beyond that.

Then again, Light right now has two members who control a country, Queen Bee and Zviad, and Zviad is not a known villain so he's more useful for The Light, and it makes sense to accept both, means more political power, so depending how much royalty Cheetah is, she could have an use too.

Rebirth Cheetah, the werecats could be cool, but potentially be made redundant by the League of Shadows, unless they specialize more in raw power compared to League of Shadows having a bunch of mooks, Cheetah could at least have mooks who aren't so easy to defeat.

[9th.]

That makes me wonder if she'd even manage to become part of The Light, only Orm and Granny Goodness have betrayed it, and Orm was because Light kicked him out and he got butthurt, and Granny because she was put there so Darkseid can know what they're doing.

The Light is bizarrely good at having loyal people lol.



For fuck's sake, why am I so bad at keeping track of when the episodes come out? Was thinking it'd only come out in a few days...

Will watch that and make comments later lol.

Same here, I could I sworn I see the new episode already.

[The Kid]

I still haven't seen the latest season. Idk Weisman saying that YJ will never truly have an ending and is written to basically keep going forever deflated some of the hype for me since I know it'll eventually end on a cliffhanger

[Alpha]

The pitfalls of being the comic relief/joke character is that while a show will go out of its way to actively dump on that character, it won't really actively give that character credit unless it's in a backhanded sort of way like the 'truly dumb' thing.

Like, the show having Wally joke about being humiliated because he needed to be carried and Bart teasing him about not having the superior genetics actively highlights the negatives, but him helping Jay save Barry/Bart at the end of the episode is just ignored as if it never even happened.

I honestly don't understand Wally superfans. I never cared much about Wally in adaptations until I watched Young Justice. That show made me love him. To the degree that there are online movements for his ressurection (most of these people nerver even read his comics). But most Wally super fans still come out of that show thinking he was disrespected. He's one of the most beloved parts of the show bro.

What I remember about Wally is when him and Dick were discussing how to shut down the Red Tornado Family when they attacked the cave (basically pointing out that him and Robin were the brainiacs of the team). I also remember him makibg the wise decision of wanting to actually lead a fulfilling life as a normal person, and being furious with his friends for putting his soulmate and serious partner in danger. How the hell could anyone blame him for actually wanting to live his life? He always wanted the glory of being a superhero and one season later he's doing the opposite. And then he still dies for a greater cause.

Him being the slowest speedster actually makes me value him more, because he can accept that about himself, and recognize he still has value.

[Frontier]

I was definitely hoping she'd transform in a more epic way since I feel like this was their way to get out of having her do so for the remainder of this arc.

And it basically came off as a rejection of her Superhero self in favor of being a sorcerer even though the problem wasn't that so much as her transforming too much. And the way she's currently just channeling her powers still feels like she's just intentionally limiting herself.

Design wise...I was cool with it though I'd lose the hair tie and turn the cape red.

It feels like a more generic take on Mary's Superhero costume and just makes her look more like a gender-flip of Billy. The onesie here just makes it seem like she's wearing PJ's to me.

Man if Raven is introduced into the show I hope Trigon is just timeskipped or never brought up, he's boring and I legit have no interest in the 700th possible Raven and Trigon story. It's all writers can seem to think of her for her to do and Trigon losing over and over and over to a bunch of teenagers has rendered him kind of a joke to him when it comes to him being threatening. He's this big cosmic bad guy but none of the other cosmic big bads seem to care about him and why would they? In actual action he's kind of a loser and he's done nothing for the last couple of decades but drag Raven down as a character via writers not letting able to let go of their connection.

I think the show would either A. do a very creative take on Raven and Trigon's story like they did with Vic or B. gloss it over because it's been done to death.

Although Apokolips War kind of got people taking Trigon seriously again.

As for Mary, I don't mind what their doing with her but I do think the whole "got addicted to the power and didn't want to transform back to her normal self" would work better with Freddy, easy enough to rationalize why someone who ether has to use crutches or a wheelchair might not want to go back to that when they can say a magic word and walk just fine, fly and be super strong. (It'd also probably have worked better if Weisman had gotten to tell that Marvel family story he wanted to tell in I forget if it was S2 or the tie-in comics but then couldn't because of lack of episodes and the tie-in being canceled. Presumably we'd of gotten some context there instead of having to be told it.)

I guess they didn't want to do a story about the crippled kid becoming addicted to the only way he can still have his body function normally and be a Superhero. I guess Mary can't be a healthy escapist fantasy but Freddy can.

It just feels like they kind of missed the point of the Marvel Family and Mary's character here.

I like the costume for her though, always liked White over Red for Mary as it sticks out from Billy more and well.. Pants>Skirts just as a matter of practicality (also reading though a bunch of 2000s stuff with Mary Marvel there's a lot of.. artist trying to sneak in upskirts and it was creepy and weird and kinda tainted it).

I don't see how practicality matters for a Heroine who is invulnerable and transforms with magic, especially next to Zatanna who dresses how she dresses, and it's not like anyone would expect an upskirt shot of Mary in this kind of cartoon (or in any cartoon, really).

Like even Doc Shaner kept the skirt for her Shazam look, and the movie did too.

Although I guess this tells me Supergirl might not have her skirt if they ever get around to introducing her.

Also from everything that's been said about Ra's from himself and Vandal I don't think he was kicked out of the Light so much as he left it on his own accord and on good terms after S2, I guess what happened in it and then the birth of Damian changed his perspective on some things. It's pretty clearly brought up in S3 and 4 that his relationship with Vandal is still corrdial while other past members of the Light were basically dumped to the side once they were arrested, kicked out or whatever (I mean they even flat out had Orm killed). Like im sure if Savage wanted to he could get Black Manta and the Brain out of prison but he decided it's not worth it. With Ra's he clearly still sees him as a friend and ally, even offering him a chance to come to War World while this crazy magic battle goes on.

I wonder how much Ra's last on-screen death effected his standing. It seems like losing control of a lot of the League of Shadows to Deathstroke didn't help since he wouldn't be as useful to the Light.

I honestly don't understand Wally superfans. I never cared much about Wally in adaptations until I watched Young Justice. That show made me love him. To the degree that there are online movements for his ressurection (most of these people nerver even read his comics). But most Wally super fans still come out of that show thinking he was disrespected. He's one of the most beloved parts of the show bro.

What I remember about Wally is when him and Dick were discussing how to shut down the Red Tornado Family when they attacked the cave (basically pointing out that him and Robin were the brainiacs of the team). I also remember him makibg the wise decision of wanting to actually lead a fulfilling life as a normal person, and being furious with his friends for putting his soulmate and serious partner in danger. How the hell could anyone blame him for actually wanting to live his life? He always wanted the glory of being a superhero and one season later he's doing the opposite. And then he still dies for a greater cause.

Him being the slowest speedster actually makes me value him more, because he can accept that about himself, and recognize he still has value.

I really liked Wally on YJ too but I still think that, in an overall sense, they shortchanged his character compared to the rest of the cast. And him being the "slowest Speedster" is tainted by it being the cause of his death and how they treated it up until that point, especially in comparison to comic Wally.

[Rend20]

He's one of the most beloved parts of the show bro.

Being "beloved" by the fandom and treated well by the show aren't the same thing. Most people wanting him back have also been incredibly critical of how the show handled him as well from what I've seen.

And Wally is probably the most divisive character within the fandom aside from M'Gann.

How the hell could anyone blame him for actually wanting to live his life?

The problem with the retirement is the show made it clear helping those he didn't know wasn't a big factor behind him doing the hero thing in season one. So the retirement and sitting on the sidelines during the invasion because it interfered with his normal life just doubled down on his primarily self-serving motivation as a hero instead of showing him to be a better one like the end of "Coldhearted" indicated he would become.

Him viewing delivering the heart to a little girl as not being a real mission because he wanted to do something else unfortunately best summed up the type of hero he was in the series. Despite this, Weisman tries to play up the hero angle as being the strength of his character.

Him being the slowest speedster actually makes me value him more, because he can accept that about himself, and recognize he still has value.

Aside from the bloody nose when vibrating line from Dick to score points with M'Gann, I don't recall his inferiority being hinted at, much less explored, in the first season? Then it was used as a prop in Bart's debut episode, as a joke we weren't supposed to take seriously, and as the reason he died while the others survived.

When did the show ever actually explore how it made him feel and the impact it had on him? Because if we use "Bloodlines", then it means the show killed him off for the same reason it "humiliated" him earlier. The actual substance of his death was no different from Bart mocking him for not having the superior speedster genetics.

But most Wally super fans still come out of that show thinking he was disrespected.

So what exactly did the show give his fans to hold onto in terms of actual substance beyond tacking the idea of a sacrifice on at the very end?

Him being the type of hero who viewed delivering a heart to a little girl as not being a real mission? His inferiority only being actively used to have some fun at his expense and serve as the reason he died? That he was constantly shown to be a roadblock that Artemis had to get over in each season? None of that sounds great.

I think his story would have been fine if they actually committed to him being a better hero or established his heroic outlook as a strength in season one, explored the inferiority in terms of his own character, and provided some balance to his conflict with Artemis in season two. All they really had to do was commit substance to the ideas they tried to present.

[Frontier]

Being "beloved" by the fandom and treated well by the show aren't the same thing. Most people wanting him back have also been incredibly critical of how the show handled him as well from what I've seen.

And Wally is probably the most divisive character within the fandom aside from M'Gann.

I wasn't aware of that...was it partially because of how aggressively he flirted with her in season 1?

[Rend20]

I wasn't aware of that...was it partially because of how aggressively he flirted with her in season 1?

That's part of it.

His aggressive flirting with M'Gann, him being a "jerk" to Artemis that made her doubt herself and her place on the team, him holding Artemis back from the hero life that she wanted, and him complaining about people who are actually trying to do something about the invasion while he wants nothing to do with helping are the most used complaints about him.

I don't necessarily agree with all of those things, but I certainly understand why people would see it like that.

[Frontier]

That's part of it.

His aggressive flirting with M'Gann, him being a "jerk" to Artemis that made her doubt herself and her place on the team, him holding Artemis back from the hero life that she wanted, and him complaining about people who are actually trying to do something about the invasion while he wants nothing to do with helping are the most used complaints about him.

I don't necessarily agree with all of those things, but I certainly understand why people would see it like that.

Well, at least the complaints were somewhat justified because of how Dick and co. were handling it but then nobody else really calls them out on it after it's all revealed.

[Rend20]

Well, at least the complaints were somewhat justified because of how Dick and co. were handling it but then nobody else really calls them out on it after it's all revealed.

Yeah, Wally usually comes across a being wrong and/or the bad guy in conflicts no matter how reasonable his takes are.

Like, Artemis is every bit as awful to him as he is to her in season one, while she's often the instigator, but the show uses his hostility towards her to make her doubt herself where her equally terrible treatment has no impact on Wally. And if we use "Denial", the show pretty much said he needed that. So viewers automatically sympathize with Artemis while Wally comes across looking bad because of how the show portrayed things.

[Thezmage]

Yeah, Wally usually comes across a being wrong and/or the bad guy in conflicts no matter how reasonable his takes are.

Like, Artemis is every bit as awful to him as he is to her in season one, while she's often the instigator, but the show uses his hostility towards her to make her doubt herself where her equally terrible treatment has no impact on Wally. And if we use "Denial", the show pretty much said he needed that. So viewers automatically sympathize with Artemis while Wally comes across looking bad because of how the show portrayed things.

I mean the other thing is that Artemis is mean to Wally because he doesn’t treat her or M’gann with respect, while Wally is mean to Artemis because she’s there instead of his friend. Her anger is much more excusable and justified while his is just petty and mean