DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[Lukmendes]

Or like when they show Ice and Isis showing up out of nowhere and give them a significant focus shot...even though they're just there for cleanup duty and have no relevance to the plot, and only hardcore comic fans might even recognize who they are (save for maybe Ice becuase the design isn't immediately recognizable as her unless you remember her cameo in the first episode of season 3).

Or Etrigan's entire presence, or Phantom Stranger suddenly showing up at all lol.

Getting some "illusion of change" vibes.

I mean, Child showed up, did some shit around then left with Klarion still around, so she's not doing the illusion of change, what likely will be an "illusion of change" will be Fate's situation, since Zatanna is so sidelined as is, Fate is even worse, so Giovanni not being Fate's slave anymore may not mean much for the plot, or characters, but we'll see, I don't expect it to matter though lol.

Thinking of it, this cartoon runs on illusion of change more or less since season 2, despite all the nasty bullshit the heroes may do, the relationships stay the same, and Light only really loses irrelevant members nobody cares about, like Orm... Guess the Geo Force situation is a step at avoiding continuing that to such an extent, but we'll see about that eventually, unless YJ gets cancelled, again.

[Frontier]

Or Etrigan's entire presence, or Phantom Stranger suddenly showing up at all lol.

Sometimes I wonder if the show is just checking boxes at this point.

I mean, Child showed up, did some shit around then left with Klarion still around, so she's not doing the illusion of change, what likely will be an "illusion of change" will be Fate's situation, since Zatanna is so sidelined as is, Fate is even worse, so Giovanni not being Fate's slave anymore may not mean much for the plot, or characters, but we'll see, I don't expect it to matter though lol.

Thinking of it, this cartoon runs on illusion of change more or less since season 2, despite all the nasty bullshit the heroes may do, the relationships stay the same, and Light only really loses irrelevant members nobody cares about, like Orm... Guess the Geo Force situation is a step at avoiding continuing that to such an extent, but we'll see about that eventually, unless YJ gets cancelled, again.

You'd think Child would change something but Klarion is back and Savage is still a pretentious tool who can seemingly never really lose in the long-run.

I guess now Dr. Fate can sometimes have boobs depending on who the show wants to be the host in a certain scene. I guess the question is whether different hosts will be effective/less effective but I guess whether they explore that depends on whether they want to show the consequences of what Zatanna did. I think they set up Traci potentially having it the hardest.

I know Weisman believes in the slow-burn but sometimes it gets to be a bit much.

[king of hybrids]

I think it’s a sunk cost fallacy at this point. They’ve either neglected to develop other supervillain threats beyond background info or subordinated them all to the Light vs Darkseid thing; and even if the Light somehow collapses this season, there’s no time to develop alternative threats on earth or space

Honestly, the only other threat would be a confrontation with just how corrupt the superhero community as presented in YJ is

[king81992]

I think it’s a sunk cost fallacy at this point. They’ve either neglected to develop other supervillain threats beyond background info or subordinated them all to the Light vs Darkseid thing; and even if the Light somehow collapses this season, there’s no time to develop alternative threats on earth or space

Honestly, the only other threat would be a confrontation with just how corrupt the superhero community as presented in YJ is

The DC superhero community has been low key corrupt in the comics for a while now. I am not sure if the writers have picked up on it yet. I'm also starting to wonder if Weissman and company realize the superhero community in YJ is corrupt as well.

[Lukmendes]

Sometimes I wonder if the show is just checking boxes at this point.

Etrigan does feel like a box checking situation, 'cause he does fucking nothing lol.

Maybe he'll be relevant in another arc in season 4, I think that maybe it'd be Kaldur'ahm's, but if that's the case, introduce him there, don't use what's supposed to be Zatanna's arc to do that lol.

You'd think Child would change something but Klarion is back and Savage is still a pretentious tool who can seemingly never really lose in the long-run.

Honestly? At best I was considering she'd get rid of Klarion for a while, as in, for more than just this arc, and while that could be a huge blow to Light, it could also be a big case of illusion of change.

'Cause, say, if Klarion disappeared in season 2, it wouldn't make much of a difference, since Klarion is only useful in the last episode so Vandal can escape, and in season 3, all he does is try to make some mutated monster that doesn't matter.

So, basically even if Klarion left for more than just this arc, it could be a big case of illusion of change, just like everytime Light loses one of its leaders, 'cause back in season 2, Light lost the Brain as one of its leaders, what does that change? Absolutely nothing.

I guess now Dr. Fate can sometimes have boobs depending on who the show wants to be the host in a certain scene. I guess the question is whether different hosts will be effective/less effective but I guess whether they explore that depends on whether they want to show the consequences of what Zatanna did.

I'm not even sure if it'll make any difference besides changing Fate's looks once in a while, the problem with the way YJ uses Fate is that Nabu is in full control, so what's the difference between Wally, Kaldur'ahm, Zatanna or Giovanni using Fate's helmet? Well, he gets another voice to echo alongside his own, and uh, Wally is slightly weaker and uh... Yeah.

Maybe these episodes will actually let Fate change the way he acts depending on who's wearing the helmet, but I doubt that.

I think they set up Traci potentially having it the hardest.

Well, Zatanna still didn't really explain to Traci what it means to be Fate's glorified slave, although at least, Khalid says she'll have to talk with her father first, but Zatanna not explaining at all doesn't make Thirteen talking with her father much better, unless he happens to know what's actually going on.

I know Weisman believes in the slow-burn but sometimes it gets to be a bit much.

You mean like this very arc where it felt like a Bendis' style of pointless decompression, only with better dialogue?

I think it’s a sunk cost fallacy at this point. They’ve either neglected to develop other supervillain threats beyond background info or subordinated them all to the Light vs Darkseid thing; and even if the Light somehow collapses this season, there’s no time to develop alternative threats on earth or space

At the very least, this season so far toned down the Light's presence.

The sad thing is, if the Reach is any hint, YJ could have another threat be around if they wanted to, but they always make it more about the Light and Apokolips.

Child unfortunately shows one of the problems with YJ, that if a villain is unrelated with the Light, they'll eventually be rid of, and while it's more understandable in Child's case, since she for some reason is stronger than Klarion and Fate, so she can't stay on Earth, Reach itself stopped being used post season 2, and the only thing we've heard about them is that they're fighting the Green Lanterns in season 3, and Mongul in season 2 was defeated and is basically in jail... The only exception to this kind of thing so far is Malefic, 'cause he was more or less independent in season 2, but did nothing, but then he returns in season 3 as a terrorist, so at least he's still around showing up, and he's even partially the cause of Conner's death, and that is potentially a big deal, potentially 'cause, Conner's death could be like when M'gann destroyed Kaldur'ahm's mind, and as Rend20 put it, made him go into a glorified time-out lol.

Honestly, the only other threat would be a confrontation with just how corrupt the superhero community as presented in YJ is

What, you saying we may get something like Marvel's Civil War? That'd be somethin', and probably not a good somethin' lol.

The DC superhero community has been low key corrupt in the comics for a while now. I am not sure if the writers have picked up on it yet.

Kinda hard to believe they wouldn't notice lol.

I'm also starting to wonder if Weissman and company realize the superhero community in YJ is corrupt as well.

There is some awareness, in season 2, we have Dick saying "They (The Team and the League) may never forgive us" for the whole plan of having Kaldur'ahm pretend to be a villain and Artemis pretend to have been killed, and in season 3, Diana is against Anti-Light, and the last episode quite clearly says that doing Anti-Light stuff means they're losing their way, so yeah, there's awareness of this corruption, the writers just don't seem to be aware how corrupt, and damaging, the heroes are, 'cause whenever they pull these bullshits, the negative consequences are mostly ignored lol.

[Frontier]

Etrigan does feel like a box checking situation, 'cause he does fucking nothing lol.

Maybe he'll be relevant in another arc in season 4, I think that maybe it'd be Kaldur'ahm's, but if that's the case, introduce him there, don't use what's supposed to be Zatanna's arc to do that lol.

I guess "it's an arc about dangerous magic, we need to have Etrigan show up even if he does nothing afterwards."

So, basically even if Klarion left for more than just this arc, it could be a big case of illusion of change, just like everytime Light loses one of its leaders, 'cause back in season 2, Light lost the Brain as one of its leaders, what does that change? Absolutely nothing.

I was just thinking how the Team's "big win" in season 2 didn't even matter that much in the long run because now the Light operate like it basically never happened or really didn't effect them that much. It's basically baked into the show's premise how little progress actually gets made when it comes down to the heroes versus the villains.

I'm not even sure if it'll make any difference besides changing Fate's looks once in a while, the problem with the way YJ uses Fate is that Nabu is in full control, so what's the difference between Wally, Kaldur'ahm, Zatanna or Giovanni using Fate's helmet? Well, he gets another voice to echo alongside his own, and uh, Wally is slightly weaker and uh... Yeah.

Maybe these episodes will actually let Fate change the way he acts depending on who's wearing the helmet, but I doubt that.

I feel like this arc should've gone more into how much of an impact the host makes on Fate, but they really didn't explore it much beyond how parasitic Nabu is and how much he takes away from the host.

Well, Zatanna still didn't really explain to Traci what it means to be Fate's glorified slave, although at least, Khalid says she'll have to talk with her father first, but Zatanna not explaining at all doesn't make Thirteen talking with her father much better, unless he happens to know what's actually going on.

I think the point is definitely that Traci is the youngest and doesn't know what she's signing up for like the rest do but she's too enthusiastic and looks up to Zatanna too much to say no.

Zatanna basically said "you're eighteen, you can make your own decisions even if you can say no" but it definitely felt like she was leading her into it. I mean, she might be a legal adult but she's still a teenager.

Also I find it funny that her dad (Doctor Thirteen) gets mentioned by Khalid even though he was seemingly the only person relevant in her life who wasn't involved in her test at all. I guess she has apparently no hangups with her dad.

You mean like this very arc where it felt like a Bendis' style of pointless decompression, only with better dialogue?

...I hate that this feels accurate.

What, you saying we may get something like Marvel's Civil War? That'd be somethin', and probably not a good somethin' lol.

There is some awareness, in season 2, we have Dick saying "They (The Team and the League) may never forgive us" for the whole plan of having Kaldur'ahm pretend to be a villain and Artemis pretend to have been killed, and in season 3, Diana is against Anti-Light, and the last episode quite clearly says that doing Anti-Light stuff means they're losing their way, so yeah, there's awareness of this corruption, the writers just don't seem to be aware how corrupt, and damaging, the heroes are, 'cause whenever they pull these bullshits, the negative consequences are mostly ignored lol.

I'm not a fan of stretched out hero vs. hero conflicts but considering how this show usually handles it would probably be resolved with a nice bow on top and never mentioned again like most personal conflicts on this show.

For how much this show tries to be "real life" about stuff, things tend to resolve fairly tidily.

[Thezmage]

Those exaggerated designs do look like something made to be toys, surprised it got cancelled, it's Batman and all, maybe the movies weren't that popular? Or the toys didn't sell well?

There definitely seemed to be a case of diminishing returns. The first one came in a blu ray pack with a toy, the second one had a blu ray but (iirc) no toy, and the third one only a standard dvd

[king of hybrids]

Considering the antics so far, I would say that actually addressing the corruption would be closer to Twilight of the Superheroes than Civil War

Superheroes are vigilantes, and like cowboy cops no one ever questions the means when the ends are met; and after a while it’s indistinguishable from Dirty cops that need to be shut down. Hard.

[Lukmendes]

I was just thinking how the Team's "big win" in season 2 didn't even matter that much in the long run because now the Light operate like it basically never happened or really didn't effect them that much. It's basically baked into the show's premise how little progress actually gets made when it comes down to the heroes versus the villains.

Even in season 2 itself it doesn't feel like a real win against the Light, by that point, Light damaged Reach and already got what they wanted from them (Finding out about metagene and kidnapping kids with it, and Reach was also used as glorified bait so Light can get Warworld), and the Team only really got a leader that doesn't matter, and while Vandal says "He (Kaldur'ahm) has caused more damage to my plans than any living creature has wrought in 50 thousand years", it doesn't feel like it when Vandal very quickly recovers himself by taking control of Warworld.

The heroes got a win on the Reach, so it doesn't feel pointless, but ultimately the Light didn't have any real loss, and it's usually how it goes with them, they only really lose when they get something that could be an absolute, guaranteed win, like brainwashing the League in season 1, or the registration business in season 3 to keep heroes under their control.

I feel like this arc should've gone more into how much of an impact the host makes on Fate, but they really didn't explore it much beyond how parasitic Nabu is and how much he takes away from the host.

The thing is that, talking about how much of an impact a host makes to Fate isn't really shown at all, 'cause again, the hosts are completely controlled by Nabu, and at best, he may be willing to listen to 'em, like when Kent told Nabu (off-screen) to let go of Kaldur'ahm, and when Giovanni told Nabu (off-screen) to go join the League, so the biggest impacts are basically the hosts making suggestions and maybe Nabu is willing to listen, something that season 4 continued when Giovanni told Nabu that he has to listen to others and not just work alone.

I guess, you can say that at least Giovanni has that much impact on Fate, but unfortunately it's just Fate willing to listen to someone again and still being in complete control, though, at least Fate listening to someone wasn't done off-screen this time.

I think the point is definitely that Traci is the youngest and doesn't know what she's signing up for like the rest do but she's too enthusiastic and looks up to Zatanna too much to say no.

Zatanna basically said "you're eighteen, you can make your own decisions even if you can say no" but it definitely felt like she was leading her into it. I mean, she might be a legal adult but she's still a teenager.

When Zatanna says that, she looks at Khalid, and his reaction has him clearly not being happy too, so yeah, the show recognizes to an extent that Zatanna is being shitty, but probably not recognizing how much, as usual when characters act shitty lol.

Also I find it funny that her dad (Doctor Thirteen) gets mentioned by Khalid even though he was seemingly the only person relevant in her life who wasn't involved in her test at all. I guess she has apparently no hangups with her dad.

Maybe her father is off-screen too much for her to remember him at that moment .

...I hate that this feels accurate.

This might be a taste of what's to come from Bendis' Legion cartoon .

I'm not a fan of stretched out hero vs. hero conflicts but considering how this show usually handles it would probably be resolved with a nice bow on top and never mentioned again like most personal conflicts on this show.

Yeah, it's very comic book super hero of 'em lol.

For how much this show tries to be "real life" about stuff, things tend to resolve fairly tidily.

The silly thing is that, YJ just reversed who's untouchable while pretending to be more "realistic"

In comics, heroes are practically untouchable, they lose sometimes, but hardly get screwed that much in the long run.

All YJ does is make it so the villains are the ones who are untouchable, the thing is that, it's more frustrating for them to be untouchable, and not because they're evil, because while in the comics, heroes are basically untouchable, they do cool things like fighting, interacting, going on adventures, meanwhile, the Light is untouchable and they... Sit in their asses patting each other in the back, congratulating each other about how their plans are working so well, and that's really boring, plans are only good when we see them in motion, with actual conflicts to 'em, Light generally doesn't have to worry about stuff.

There definitely seemed to be a case of diminishing returns. The first one came in a blu ray pack with a toy, the second one had a blu ray but (iirc) no toy, and the third one only a standard dvd

Damn, guess it wasn't selling as much as expected lol.

Considering the antics so far, I would say that actually addressing the corruption would be closer to Twilight of the Superheroes than Civil War

A quick research into Twilight of Heroes makes it sound like it's potentially worse trash than Civil War with the gritty nonsense lol.

Superheroes are vigilantes, and like cowboy cops no one ever questions the means when the ends are met; and after a while it’s indistinguishable from Dirty cops that need to be shut down. Hard.

That's part of the point of Black Lightning's speech in season 3's last episodes, heroes doing shady bullshit may become the very thing they fight against, though while he is the League's leader now, who knows if it'll do anything to matter, specially with how the League is generally useless.

[TheRay]

I would totally have watched a cartoon set in that universe...

Same, but then Batman just lends himself to cartoons. I don’t see why they keep cancelling his shows.

[John Venus]

The DC superhero community has been low key corrupt in the comics for a while now. I am not sure if the writers have picked up on it yet. I'm also starting to wonder if Weissman and company realize the superhero community in YJ is corrupt as well.

I think they are doing their own version of Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Countdown to Final Crisis and eventually building up to their own version of Final Crisis. Not a direct adaptation but following some of the same beats from the those story arcs.

Zatanna is slowly moving into a darker, morally gray territory. Wouldn't be surprised if the revelation that she tricked Artemis with the help of Megan ends up shattering their friendship much like IdC did between her and the rest of the non-pro mind wipe superhero community. Meanwhile, Mary Marvel gets corrupted by Granny Goodness much like she was in Final Crisis and it's lead up. Wonder Woman ends up killing someone, either Maxwell Lord or a similar mind controlling supervillain which compromises her. Batman builds Brother Eye which gets hijacked. The superhero community ends up falling into disarray which leaves them open to attack from an outside supervillain, in this case Darkseid. He becomes such a huge threat that the heroes have to form an alliance with Vandal Savage, who of course holds the key to saving the day because he has been planning it all along, in order to stop him. The heroes save the day and even think they've defused Savage's own plan until....surprise! That's what he wanted all along. They've only stopped one of his plans but helped move the other forward.

[Mojo]

So like the entire season seems to revolve around Conner, first half was his "Death" and characters reactions to it mourning etc ending with Zatanna's discovery that wait there's more going on here, and second is presumably going to be characters trying to save him and his eventual return.

Basically this season is his Death and Return of Superman lol. Maybe he'll even get a mullet. And this whole sequence of crazy events somehow lets him use the full Krpytonian powerset so they can introduce Supergirl without making Superboy completely redundant with his Golden Age Supes only powers.

And yeah combining hints and stuff from last season and this one it's pretty obvious the end game for the Darkseid storyline is some sort of Final Crisis adaptation. Probably without fiction eating vampires though.

[Lukmendes]

I think they are doing their own version of Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Countdown to Final Crisis and eventually building up to their own version of Final Crisis. Not a direct adaptation but following some of the same beats from the those story arcs.

Urgh, I hope not, the better of those stories was Final Crisis, and that story is just Morrison's acid trop without the fun part.

Zatanna is slowly moving into a darker, morally gray territory. Wouldn't be surprised if the revelation that she tricked Artemis with the help of Megan ends up shattering their friendship much like IdC did between her and the rest of the non-pro mind wipe superhero community. Meanwhile, Mary Marvel gets corrupted by Granny Goodness much like she was in Final Crisis and it's lead up. Wonder Woman ends up killing someone, either Maxwell Lord or a similar mind controlling supervillain which compromises her.

If a mind controlling villain is gonna be killed by a hero, it's gonna be Zviad, who's practically villain Maxwell Lord in all but name.

And if a hero is gonna kill someone and be compromised, I don't see it being Diana, much like the "Flash's death" from Crisis they adapted, they didn't kill off Barry in it, because Barry doesn't matter, and Diana is even worse, if a hero is killing someone, it's gonna be an actual character.

And honestly? If they're adapting just the bare minimum of plot points, then we're already in the "Diana kills Maxwell" part, with Brion killing his uncle and him getting compromised, we even have the killing being recorded and shown around, only with the twists that, Diana killed Maxwell to prevent Superman from being Maxwell's puppet anymore, and Geo Force killing his uncle is what made him become Zviad's puppet, and the comics had the public and heroes demonizing Diana for killing Maxwell, while other heroes demonize Brion, but the public openly supports him.

Batman builds Brother Eye which gets hijacked. The superhero community ends up falling into disarray which leaves them open to attack from an outside supervillain, in this case Darkseid.

Honestly would be weird to do that now after Black Lightning became the League's leader, and after we put up with two seasons of characters becoming shady assholes.

I guess that would be a way to give actual negative consequences to the bullshit they pulled.

Either way, Darkseid won't just attack Earth for now, both Earth and Apokolips will basically conquer the galaxy, and in the end, it'll be a winner take all battle, something season 3 established, and while it may have been just Olympia's story overrating Vandal's importance, that didn't really feel like a contradiction, and Vandal himself mentions that again in season 4, so basically, if we're getting Final Crisis, it'll take longer for that to happen, and Darkseid won't care if heroes are weakened or not, unless Darkseid manages to get the Anti-Life Equation again, and not just lose it this time, that way he'll break his deal with Vandal again.

He becomes such a huge threat that the heroes have to form an alliance with Vandal Savage, who of course holds the key to saving the day because he has been planning it all along, in order to stop him. The heroes save the day and even think they've defused Savage's own plan until....surprise! That's what he wanted all along. They've only stopped one of his plans but helped move the other forward.

I relly don't like how this part sounds so likely... Even though the Light has been getting nerfed per season, this bullshit still sounds likely lol.

So like the entire season seems to revolve around Conner, first half was his "Death" and characters reactions to it mourning etc ending with Zatanna's discovery that wait there's more going on here, and second is presumably going to be characters trying to save him and his eventual return.

Basically this season is his Death and Return of Superman lol. Maybe he'll even get a mullet. And this whole sequence of crazy events somehow lets him use the full Krpytonian powerset so they can introduce Supergirl without making Superboy completely redundant with his Golden Age Supes only powers.

I dunno about Conner getting more powers, the Team's members are usually pretty weak intentionally with the nerfs they got, so I don't really see Conner getting more powers.

Maybe we'll get Supergirl here, but eh, she'll probably be a nobody after being introduced, like my boy Static.

And yeah combining hints and stuff from last season and this one it's pretty obvious the end game for the Darkseid storyline is some sort of Final Crisis adaptation. Probably without fiction eating vampires though.

I honestly doubt we'll be getting Final Crisis or any sort of battle with Darkseid with anything that isn't a final season, and if what another poster said is true, that YJ's made in a way it can keep going forever, then I doubt Darkseid will be anything beyond a mute, vaguely threatening overlord lol.

If we get Final Crisis or some other Darkseid story like Great Darkness, I doubt it'll last for long, an entire season of just dealing with his stuff, sounds fun, but also sounds pretty unlikely they'd make an entire season be that bleak, maybe at most half of one.

[9th.]

Reading Historia makes me want a WW prequel show even more, it'd be expensive as hell but I think DC would be able to get it done.

[SuperX]

So like the entire season seems to revolve around Conner, first half was his "Death" and characters reactions to it mourning etc ending with Zatanna's discovery that wait there's more going on here, and second is presumably going to be characters trying to save him and his eventual return.

Basically this season is his Death and Return of Superman lol. Maybe he'll even get a mullet. And this whole sequence of crazy events somehow lets him use the full Krpytonian powerset so they can introduce Supergirl without making Superboy completely redundant with his Golden Age Supes only powers.

And yeah combining hints and stuff from last season and this one it's pretty obvious the end game for the Darkseid storyline is some sort of Final Crisis adaptation. Probably without fiction eating vampires though.

Basically your whole middle paragraph is having Conner become superman x.