DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[Vakanai]

Why do you like the sword? I'm not asking to be condescending or anything like that, I honestly want to know what you find appealing about it for Diana.

Same thing I like about the lasso and bracelets really, it gives her more variety in things she can do in a fight beyond being a flying brick and it looks cool in fight scenes. Lasso, sword, bracelets, that thing where she uses her tiara as a boomerang, that sort of tool and weapon use vs say Superman's many powers kind of adds to her uniqueness. Makes her almost a neat balance and mix of Superman (powers) and Batman (tools).

[Vakanai]

Snyder was involved in the writing for the WW movie so I doubt he didn't want Diana to fly.

Well, being involved in the writing and deciding how fight choregraphy and special effects play out are very different. All I know is in the movies he made she couldn't fly, and in the one he didn't make she did fly, so without further information it's kind of the easy thing to assume.

[Raijin]

Same how Wonder Woman flies (sometimes) or the trunks going away and never coming back.

It is 2019, what does that have to do with anything? That lassos are out and swords are in? lol

She’s been carrying around a sword for a bit now and in 2019 people are still complaining about it. It was my version of saying get over it, but in a nice way. I don’t have a problem with her having a sword, just like others in this thread don’t. Complaining about the sword WOULD have some merit to it if she didn’t have her lasso anymore. But that’s obviously not the case. I’m so very sorry that you don’t like the sword. I think it’s neat. And I also think It’s cool to have both. I’m going to move on now. Not gonna turn this into a big thing with you.

[Raijin]

Same thing I like about the lasso and bracelets really, it gives her more variety in things she can do in a fight beyond being a flying brick and it looks cool in fight scenes. Lasso, sword, bracelets, that thing where she uses her tiara as a boomerang, that sort of tool and weapon use vs say Superman's many powers kind of adds to her uniqueness. Makes her almost a neat balance and mix of Superman (powers) and Batman (tools).

And also if Diana were ever in a situation where she lost her powers. She’d still have an advantage. Excellent strategist, excellent hand to hand fighter, excellent sword fighter. To me, the sword fits her. Even when I was a kid reading comics I always thought she should carry around a sword.

[byrd156]

Same thing I like about the lasso and bracelets really, it gives her more variety in things she can do in a fight beyond being a flying brick and it looks cool in fight scenes. Lasso, sword, bracelets, that thing where she uses her tiara as a boomerang, that sort of tool and weapon use vs say Superman's many powers kind of adds to her uniqueness. Makes her almost a neat balance and mix of Superman (powers) and Batman (tools).

I dislike it for that reason, sorta. Wonder Woman is the Spirit of Truth, she isn't a battle hardened Xena-type. Diana is about compassion, peace, and empathy. Pairing that up a sword flies in the face of that. Violence and killing is a last resort for her.

[Agent Z]

I dislike it for that reason, sorta. Wonder Woman is the Spirit of Truth, she isn't a battle hardened Xena-type. Diana is about compassion, peace, and empathy. Pairing that up a sword flies in the face of that. Violence and killing is a last resort for her.

Just because she's carrying a sword doesn't mean she isn't compassionate or that she'll use it as a first resort. It isn't as if the lasso has been abandoned either, we can see that she still has it. There is nothing mutually exclusive abput being a compassionate person and carrying a sword.

[byrd156]

Just because she's carrying a sword doesn't mean she isn't compassionate or that she'll use it as a first resort. It isn't as if the lasso has been abandoned either, we can see that she still has it. There is nothing mutually exclusive abput being a compassionate person and carrying a sword.

Visually the sword projects that. I don't believe that just because someone has a sword they are somehow not compassionate. I'm talking about visually which affects her image.

[Raijin]

Just because she's carrying a sword doesn't mean she isn't compassionate or that she'll use it as a first resort. It isn't as if the lasso has been abandoned either, we can see that she still has it. There is nothing mutually exclusive abput being a compassionate person and carrying a sword.

Diana can be about compassion and empathy or whatever. But at the end of the day, she's going up against folks who want to hurt her or hurt other people. She still has EVERY right to defend herself. Amethyst carries around a sword. Does that mean she isn't compassionate?

[Agent Z]

Visually the sword projects that. I don't believe that just because someone has a sword they are somehow not compassionate. I'm talking about visually which affects her image.

Here are some images of Diana with a sword.





I fail to see how these images project a lack of compassion from the character.

Also, you weren't talking about visuals in the post I replied to. In fact, this is the first time you've brought up visuals as an argument. And if we're talking about visuals, how does a lasso project compassion and peace when a sword doesn't?

[Vakanai]

I dislike it for that reason, sorta. Wonder Woman is the Spirit of Truth, she isn't a battle hardened Xena-type. Diana is about compassion, peace, and empathy. Pairing that up a sword flies in the face of that. Violence and killing is a last resort for her.

Diana has super strength and is a trained warrior from an island of warrior women, and yet that doesn't take away from her compassion, peace, or empathy. I grew up on myths, and a lot of my favorite mythical characters used swords, but King Arthur was a good king who represented equality to me (hence the round table, can't be a the head of the table when the table is a circle) and my favorite Hercules was Kevin Sorbo, who was all kinds of friendly and great on that show (admittedly he didn't walk around with a sword, but he used one often enough). Her movie really seemed to capture the heart of the character, how she cared about people, despite having a sword (and it breaking in the film wasn't symbolic of how violence wasn't the way or something, but revealing that she was the god killer herself). I'm not saying you should like the sword, but I like her with one and I don't think it reflects anything against her character or message at all. As long as she behaves like Wonder Woman, it really doesn't matter in the least whether the weapon in her hand is a sword or a lasso, it's all about her actions in story.

[Vakanai]

Visually the sword projects that. I don't believe that just because someone has a sword they are somehow not compassionate. I'm talking about visually which affects her image.

Eh, I learned never to debate about what the visual of something represents, because that always turns out to be more subjective than you would think. Mostly learned that from debating Superman's trunks, because there's some fans who go on about what the trunks represent (power, masculinity, alien heritage, meta-comic respect of history, etc.) when to me they only represent, and will always only represent, wearing one's underwear on the outside. Everything represents something entirely different to somebody else, so arguing what a sword represents to Wonder Woman isn't a great place to start, since by the very nature of such things you can only argue what it represents for you personally. At least, that's kind of what I think about it, and why I've started avoiding using such arguments.

[byrd156]

Here are some images of Diana with a sword.





I fail to see how these images project a lack of compassion from the character.

Also, you weren't talking about visuals in the post I replied to. In fact, this is the first time you've brought up visuals as an argument. And if we're talking about visuals, how does a lasso project compassion and peace when a sword doesn't?

Image as in how she is viewed by the mass audience, I'll try to be more clear for you next time.

You had this same argument with someone else about this same subject. You went in circles about it then.

I wasn't saying that because she has a sword she is literally a worse character that doesn't have compassion. To me I view swords as strength or power, I don't see anything inertially compassionate. I view a lasso as restraining which I associate with empathy and submission. Her lasso was literally created as an allegory for feminine charm and those positive effects it has on people and how it relates to submission and truth. That truth is used for justice and freedom. Now to you, you might think as justice as eye for an eye. I don't, I think prison and second chance. I don't see someone fighting her when she has a sword as getting out alive for that second chance.

[byrd156]

Eh, I learned never to debate about what the visual of something represents, because that always turns out to be more subjective than you would think. Mostly learned that from debating Superman's trunks, because there's some fans who go on about what the trunks represent (power, masculinity, alien heritage, meta-comic respect of history, etc.) when to me they only represent, and will always only represent, wearing one's underwear on the outside. Everything represents something entirely different to somebody else, so arguing what a sword represents to Wonder Woman isn't a great place to start, since by the very nature of such things you can only argue what it represents for you personally. At least, that's kind of what I think about it, and why I've started avoiding using such arguments.

All comic opinions represent different things to different people. These heroes were built with symbolism as a part of them. Superheroes are our modern myth. Art is all about what symbols represent, changing those symbols will make a reaction.

[Vakanai]

All comic opinions represent different things to different people. These heroes were built with symbolism as a part of them. Superheroes are our modern myth. Art is all about what symbols represent, changing those symbols will make a reaction.

Yes, but what those symbols represent is subjective, as are the reactions when the image of those symbols change. What the addition of a sword to Wonder Woman means to me is obviously worlds apart from what it means to you, and neither of us is right or wrong beyond saying how it makes us feel. Thus, when it comes to symbolism, how can we possibly debate it if we don't even have the same subjective interpretation or understanding of what those symbols represent? Arguments about stylistic choices, what makes sense given a character's personality or history, and various other such arguments are easier to debate because we can both understand the points the other makes even if we don't agree on the points. What a symbol means to someone else and how they feel about it on the other hand is unique, so arguing about it can only provide insight into that other person, but not into the character we're discussing, Wonder Woman. There is no right or wrong way to interpret a symbol like WW, not a right or wrong way to change that symbol. There are only right and wrong ways to write he character, and for me as long as the core of her character remains intact, then the image of a sword slung on her hip or in her hand is unimportant one way or the other, she's still Wonder Woman, and still feels as such to me. The change in her visual doesn't change her deeper symbolism as I connect to it.

Hope that made sense, that sort of symbolism/philosophy type thing isn't my wheelhouse.

[Mojo]

aannd were back on this argument, I was anticipating this and waiting for it really.