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  1. #7021
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    I would love to see a Wonder Woman cartoon that was based on the pre-crisis version. To me she is my preferred version of the character, with boatloads of lore packed into those early Sensation Comics appearances that would be perfect for a TV narrative. With some big fights of course, but also episodes that show off Diana's non-combat related abilities.



    Wonder Woman and her mythology is a goldmine
    James Tucker agrees with you (to some extent):


  2. #7022
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    And also, they get their powers from a mystical item (T'Challa with the heart shaped herb and Mari with the Totem) and are connected to Gods.

    After that though, the similarities end and the characters are complete polar opposites.

    Still, it makes no sense. Wouldn't you want to capitalize on Black Panther's success and show that DC has their own heroes based on African mythology?
    It's even more ironic they wouldn't want to make something with Vixen because it's too similar to T'Challa, yet in the damn movies they made Darkseid be more like MCU's Thanos lol.

    Wonder if they realize this irony, or maybe they do and aren't doing a Vixen movie 'cause racism and are just making up excuses, specially considering they made a Shazam movie (Who's arguably more similar to Superman than Vixen ever was to Black Panther), so yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This is pretty silly.
    "- Bruce, you're a millionaire, you could make donations!

    - NOT NOW JOKER IS TERRORIZING THE CITY!"

    Like, fuck lol.

    I thought kids were flocking to streaming instaed of cable.
    Younger generation definitely has no reason to bother with cable.

    Compare cable, where everything is available at specific time slots, have like 5 minutes of commercial, are grossly expensive, with the convenience of the internet, where you can watch stuff anywhere, whenever you want, with far shorter ads (Which can be removed depending on the service or adblocks), and why the fuck would anyone young give a shit about cable? Lol.

    I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general even if they're not thinking about the bills, man, fuck cable.

    I wouldn't even say Feige is perfect considering the production/scripting issues I've heard of for MoM. Or how Thor got basically turned into Hercules.
    Thor being turned into Hercules is a problem for his comics fans, and maybe people who know Thor from stuff like Avengers EMH, but I'm not sure if that's an actual problem for the movie fans.

    As for MoM, yeah, I know jack shit of MCU's version of Wanda, and that movie wouldn't make me interested in her as a character, or Strange, or Chavez, or anything magic related.

    Think of a B-movie, where stuff is unintentionally fun, now remove the fun aspect, that's what MoM feels in general (There are still fun moments, but in general, meh), at least for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    I would love to see a Wonder Woman cartoon that was based on the pre-crisis version. To me she is my preferred version of the character, with boatloads of lore packed into those early Sensation Comics appearances that would be perfect for a TV narrative. With some big fights of course, but also episodes that show off Diana's non-combat related abilities.



    Wonder Woman and her mythology is a goldmine
    For whatever reason I thought she had to solve this puzzle within or a bomb would detonate lol.

    Yes I know there's no indication of this in these panels, but I just assumed there had to be a contriver reason for her to solve a puzzle, because golden/silver age like to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    James Tucker agrees with you (to some extent):

    That Giganta would probably become the next Alcina Dimitrescu for the internet lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  3. #7023
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    "- Bruce, you're a millionaire, you could make donations!

    - NOT NOW JOKER IS TERRORIZING THE CITY!"

    Like, fuck lol.
    You should read the whole issue. It's basically one long Babs lecture towards everyone in her life while she dates a domestic terrorist who had her dad thrown in prison.
    Thor being turned into Hercules is a problem for his comics fans, and maybe people who know Thor from stuff like Avengers EMH, but I'm not sure if that's an actual problem for the movie fans.
    Well, yeah, I assume most GA eat up whatever the MCU throws at them and imagine how they're presented is how the characters actually are.

    Although now I wonder if the GA thinks of Sharon Carter as a "dumb and unnecessary villain" or Spidey as that "really dorky kid that babbles a lot."

  4. #7024
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You should read the whole issue. It's basically one long Babs lecture towards everyone in her life while she dates a domestic terrorist who had her dad thrown in prison.

    Well, yeah, I assume most GA eat up whatever the MCU throws at them and imagine how they're presented is how the characters actually are.

    Although now I wonder if the GA thinks of Sharon Carter as a "dumb and unnecessary villain" or Spidey as that "really dorky kid that babbles a lot."
    Spidey no, he had 5 movies before the MCU, a ton of video games, a bunch of cartoons, and is either the first or second most popular superhero on the planet. People are well aware that stuff like “Iron Boy Jr.” are deviations from the “norm”. Typically whatever is the first major success outside of comics is what becomes the “baseline” unless there’s an even greater success that dethrones it, that’s why Donner is still the baseline for Supes, and why Jackson is always going to be Nick Fury to people now. Poor Sharon has definitely been dethroned as Cap’s premiere LI by Peggy.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  5. #7025
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Grace Randolph said some WB execs don't want to use Vixen (at least on the movie side) coz they find her to be too much like Black Panther

    I guess on a superficial level but LMAO. I guess Hollywood has room for only one animal-themed superhero from Africa.
    I feel like that's just reeks of racism tbh if it is true. "they are both black, from Africa...WAY TO SIMILAR!"

  6. #7026
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You should read the whole issue. It's basically one long Babs lecture towards everyone in her life
    The worst thing is that the way Batman is talking sounds like he'll do those donations later, or at least is considering to make 'em, but she's still being a pain in the ass because he's not making 'em now lol.

    while she dates a domestic terrorist who had her dad thrown in prison.
    That's not as bad as a millionaire not making donations, clearly .

    And at the risk of reading an entire issue filled with cringe, what issue is it?

    Well, yeah, I assume most GA eat up whatever the MCU throws at them and imagine how they're presented is how the characters actually are.
    Is GA "Greater Audience"?

    And yeah, if the characters aren't A listers, then whatever adaptations can make the general public think those characters were always like that, an easy example is Iron Man, who people think that he never really cared about having a secret identity, when he was almost as bitchy as having one as Spider-Man, to the point that when Tony Stark briefly dated Janet, Cap pointed out he had to reveal to her he's Iron Man, and at least once he did a mind wipe and made most people forget he's Iron Man lol.

    Although now I wonder if the GA thinks of Sharon Carter as a "dumb and unnecessary villain" or Spidey as that "really dorky kid that babbles a lot."
    For Sharon Carter, probably, since Sharon isn't that known in general (And admittedly I don't even know who she is in either comics or MCU lol), for Spidey, they might think Spidey was always dorky kid as a teenager, but stopped that as an adult, considering that MCU has him being like that, but adaptations like Spider-Verse's movie and PS4 Spidey lack that, and they have older Spider-Men, but then that Marvel's Avengers game definitely helps with the dorky kid idea, 'cause the game claims he's an adult, but he talks like the idea someone who forgot what being young is like thinks a shy teenager sounds like.

    Even then there's still stuff besides that that can affect how people see Spidey, I hear that for a while, because of Sam Raimi's movies, there were people legit thinking that Spidey's organic webs were the norm lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  7. #7027
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    I feel like that's just reeks of racism tbh if it is true. "they are both black, from Africa...WAY TO SIMILAR!"
    Oh. Definitely.
    Steve and Diana's story both took place during WW2 and they worked it out by having her in WW1.
    Vixen doesn't even have a kingdom. They don't need to change anything.

  8. #7028
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Spidey no, he had 5 movies before the MCU, a ton of video games, a bunch of cartoons, and is either the first or second most popular superhero on the planet. People are well aware that stuff like “Iron Boy Jr.” are deviations from the “norm”. Typically whatever is the first major success outside of comics is what becomes the “baseline” unless there’s an even greater success that dethrones it, that’s why Donner is still the baseline for Supes, and why Jackson is always going to be Nick Fury to people now. Poor Sharon has definitely been dethroned as Cap’s premiere LI by Peggy.
    Peggy has basically become Cap's Steve Trevor, although just like with Steve they didn't really even bother trying to have the main character move on...although maybe Diana will be more successful than Steve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    That's not as bad as a millionaire not making donations, clearly .

    And at the risk of reading an entire issue filled with cringe, what issue is it?
    Batgirl #50. It was the last issue of Babs' solo run before it became the Batgirls book.
    Is GA "Greater Audience"?
    Yep!
    And yeah, if the characters aren't A listers, then whatever adaptations can make the general public think those characters were always like that, an easy example is Iron Man, who people think that he never really cared about having a secret identity, when he was almost as bitchy as having one as Spider-Man, to the point that when Tony Stark briefly dated Janet, Cap pointed out he had to reveal to her he's Iron Man, and at least once he did a mind wipe and made most people forget he's Iron Man lol.
    Yeah, Iron Man having a secret identity lasted far longer than people introduced in the MCU would probably expect.
    For Sharon Carter, probably, since Sharon isn't that known in general (And admittedly I don't even know who she is in either comics or MCU lol), for Spidey, they might think Spidey was always dorky kid as a teenager, but stopped that as an adult, considering that MCU has him being like that, but adaptations like Spider-Verse's movie and PS4 Spidey lack that, and they have older Spider-Men, but then that Marvel's Avengers game definitely helps with the dorky kid idea, 'cause the game claims he's an adult, but he talks like the idea someone who forgot what being young is like thinks a shy teenager sounds like.
    She's awesome. In the comics that is .

    Let's not forget about Insomniac Spidey's new babyface...

  9. #7029
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Peggy has basically become Cap's Steve Trevor, although just like with Steve they didn't really even bother trying to have the main character move on...although maybe Diana will be more successful than Steve.
    If she doesn't move on after WW1984 then Diana sucks lol.

    Batgirl #50. It was the last issue of Babs' solo run before it became the Batgirls book.
    Thanks.

    I burst out laughing at the "Wait, you guys get allowance?" line, same vibe as this:



    But yeah, I don't know the exact context of every scene but, she mentions that Jason guy having taken over the GPD, and supposedly did that for good reasons but, sounds questionable either way at least, and you calling him a domestic terrorist makes it sound like it was real bad.

    Her talking shit about Dick over his memory loss and being brainwashed also sounded mean spirited, to put it lightly.

    At least her complaining to Gordon makes some more sense since he was just talking shit about Batgirl, but then again, considering how supportive Gordon tends to be of the Bat-family, can only wonder what caused this, either he's being written poorly or she fucked up a lot lol.

    And the complaint to Batman, fuck, when he makes it clear he's making donations around, her point is "Those are obvious donations to make, donate to someone else too!", which, yeah, I can see her point, but can she try to not sound like Batman is wrong by default? Talk about like you're making suggestions to a friend, not a demand from a shitty boss, shit like that can just give him excuses to become Batjerk again, and we don't need more of that.

    Also her mask is stupid, I don't know what DC is thinking lol.

    It's even stupider she talked with that Jason guy as Batgirl, and then talked with him seconds later as Barbara and he can't tell what's up... I mean yeah I know this is a world where Superman exists, but even back when he had a secret identity, he stretched it too.

    Yeah, Iron Man having a secret identity lasted far longer than people introduced in the MCU would probably expect.
    Wonder how many would be surprised at learning his identity only became public only a few years before his movie, and over 40 years after his creation lol.

    She's awesome. In the comics that is .
    Good to known.

    Let's not forget about Insomniac Spidey's new babyface...
    I'll never understand what they were thinking with that.

    Like, the original face had its own issues, but at least he looked like an adult (Though he looks older than he's supposed to), the new one is just awkward, I know there are adults with teenager faces, but it still looks awkward right after the previous face...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  10. #7030
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    If she doesn't move on after WW1984 then Diana sucks lol.
    I like Diana with Steve, but...yeah.
    But yeah, I don't know the exact context of every scene but, she mentions that Jason guy having taken over the GPD, and supposedly did that for good reasons but, sounds questionable either way at least, and you calling him a domestic terrorist makes it sound like it was real bad.
    Yeah, he basically works with the bad guys to discredit and take down the vigilantes because he has a personal vendetta against them.
    Her talking shit about Dick over his memory loss and being brainwashed also sounded mean spirited, to put it lightly.
    Same.
    At least her complaining to Gordon makes some more sense since he was just talking shit about Batgirl, but then again, considering how supportive Gordon tends to be of the Bat-family, can only wonder what caused this, either he's being written poorly or she fucked up a lot lol.
    It was the former though the reason he was anti-Batgirl was just a dumb repeated plot.
    And the complaint to Batman, fuck, when he makes it clear he's making donations around, her point is "Those are obvious donations to make, donate to someone else too!", which, yeah, I can see her point, but can she try to not sound like Batman is wrong by default? Talk about like you're making suggestions to a friend, not a demand from a shitty boss, shit like that can just give him excuses to become Batjerk again, and we don't need more of that.
    Recently I've gotten the sense that people envision Babs as this person who lectures people and always tries to have the high ground.

    I remember in a comic she called out Bruce trying to work with Kate as an excuse to redeem his image of his own mother by proving that Martha Wayne wouldn't be a murderer because Kate, as her niece, wouldn't be...which made no sense.
    Also her mask is stupid, I don't know what DC is thinking lol.

    It's even stupider she talked with that Jason guy as Batgirl, and then talked with him seconds later as Barbara and he can't tell what's up... I mean yeah I know this is a world where Superman exists, but even back when he had a secret identity, he stretched it too.
    I like domino masks but A. Batgirl should wear a cowl and B. no artist could consistently depict how much of her face it covered so it seemed even more ridiculous.
    Wonder how many would be surprised at learning his identity only became public only a few years before his movie, and over 40 years after his creation lol.
    Probably also be surprised that Pepper Potts isn't even his most involved relationship.
    I'll never understand what they were thinking with that.

    Like, the original face had its own issues, but at least he looked like an adult (Though he looks older than he's supposed to), the new one is just awkward, I know there are adults with teenager faces, but it still looks awkward right after the previous face...
    The first face also fit Yuri Lowenthal's voice better. It especially stood out whenever he's hanging around an actual teenager like Miles.

  11. #7031
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    I actually don't mind Spidey's new face. I got used to it after by the second cutscene in the game

  12. #7032
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I actually don't mind Spidey's new face. I got used to it after by the second cutscene in the game
    It just threw me off every time I saw it. Like a completely different Peter.

  13. #7033
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I like Diana with Steve, but...yeah.
    I can understand struggling to move on but, the guy died twice already, it's already questionable she seemingly didn't move on the first time, but hey, fine, shit happens, but not moving on even after that?

    Not saying she necessarily even has to date someone else, just don't do it like WW1984 where she seemingly barely has a life because she's sad that dude died.

    Yeah, he basically works with the bad guys to discredit and take down the vigilantes because he has a personal vendetta against them.
    Is he related to JJ by any chance? Any Scorpion counterpart running around because of him? .

    It was the former though the reason he was anti-Batgirl was just a dumb repeated plot.
    Figures it was bad writing, so it was there just for cheap, ironic drama?

    Recently I've gotten the sense that people envision Babs as this person who lectures people and always tries to have the high ground.
    Man, that automatically reminded me of YJ season 3 lol.

    I'm no Batman fan and I can even react with childlike glee at him fucking up if I feel he got too annoying, but that scene after Anti-Light shit is revealed, where Barbara says that Batman called a bunch of protegés so Anti-Light is basically under his control, was ridiculous, because the others had their own opinions, and people like Dick, M'gann and Kaldur'ahm have shown they'll ignore his orders if they want to do something else (Most obvious example was back in season 1 when they ignored his orders to not investigate where Red Tornado is, and they saved him), plus M'gann and Kaldur'ahm aren't his protegés like actual members of the Batfamily are, so her claim is bullshit, and it makes it look like she's trying to not be as guilty of being involved in Anti-Light nonsense even after claiming she's not doing so.

    I'm not saying Batman wasn't trying to manipulate opinions in his favor, he was, and he's arguably the most guilty of Anti-Light's actions 'cause of that, specially since he defended their actions the most whenever Diana bitched, the problem is that Barbara talks like he was more in control than he really was, because his "protegés" are not a bunch of yes men even if they are used to his methods, and when Diana points out, more than once, how shitty their actions are, it should really make people like Dick and Kaldur'ahm rethink their actions at the very least, by that point, no one else can be excused of being manipulated by Batman that much.

    So yeah, YJ season 3 made me get a low opinion of its interpretation of Barbara real fast, and it also makes me glad her and Dick are together, 'cause I think YJ Dick in season 3 is an asshole too, so them being together means no one else can suffer either of 'em.

    I remember in a comic she called out Bruce trying to work with Kate as an excuse to redeem his image of his own mother by proving that Martha Wayne wouldn't be a murderer because Kate, as her niece, wouldn't be...which made no sense.
    What?

    Seriously, what the hell is this logic... That's not a consistent problem right? Like the YJ case is just another situations where YJ has dumb logic (And Barbara ain't alone in that), does more than one writer do this with her? 'Cause if so she might be screwed if that becomes a consistent trait, if it isn't one already.

    I like domino masks but A. Batgirl should wear a cowl and B. no artist could consistently depict how much of her face it covered so it seemed even more ridiculous.
    I don't mind domino masks by themselves, it just doesn't look fitting with the rest of the costume, since her costume is made to be more like Batman's, but it has a domino mask instead of a cowl? It feels wrong for me lol.

    Also I'm not sure if domino masks are ever that consistent with artists given how different art styles can be lol.

    Probably also be surprised that Pepper Potts isn't even his most involved relationship.
    Or that his best friend for a long time was Happy, 'cause it took forever for Rhodey to be introduced, or that Pepper eventually chose to marry Happy even.

    The first face also fit Yuri Lowenthal's voice better. It especially stood out whenever he's hanging around an actual teenager like Miles.
    Huh, yeah it did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It just threw me off every time I saw it. Like a completely different Peter.
    Blame multiverse for that, maybe in End of Spider-Verse we'll get PS4 and PS5 Spidey as different variations, with the only difference being their faces .
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  14. #7034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post

    I'm no Batman fan and I can even react with childlike glee at him fucking up if I feel he got too annoying, but that scene after Anti-Light shit is revealed, where Barbara says that Batman called a bunch of protegés so Anti-Light is basically under his control, was ridiculous, because the others had their own opinions, and people like Dick, M'gann and Kaldur'ahm have shown they'll ignore his orders if they want to do something else (Most obvious example was back in season 1 when they ignored his orders to not investigate where Red Tornado is, and they saved him), plus M'gann and Kaldur'ahm aren't his protegés like actual members of the Batfamily are, so her claim is bullshit, and it makes it look like she's trying to not be as guilty of being involved in Anti-Light nonsense even after claiming she's not doing so.

    I'm not saying Batman wasn't trying to manipulate opinions in his favor, he was, and he's arguably the most guilty of Anti-Light's actions 'cause of that, specially since he defended their actions the most whenever Diana bitched, the problem is that Barbara talks like he was more in control than he really was, because his "protegés" are not a bunch of yes men even if they are used to his methods, and when Diana points out, more than once, how shitty their actions are, it should really make people like Dick and Kaldur'ahm rethink their actions at the very least, by that point, no one else can be excused of being manipulated by Batman that much.

    So yeah, YJ season 3 made me get a low opinion of its interpretation of Barbara real fast, and it also makes me glad her and Dick are together, 'cause I think YJ Dick in season 3 is an asshole too, so them being together means no one else can suffer either of 'em.
    Bruce was the League member who had the most interaction with the original members of the team since their formation. M'Gann and Kaldur may not be his proteges the way Dick is but that doesn't mean he has no influence on them. Hell, considering the infiltration plan they used in season 2 was straight out of Batman's playbook, it's clearly obvious that his role as their trainer and mission master has given him a strong hold on them. Defying his orders a handful of times doesn't mean they can't be manipulated by them.

  15. #7035

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    I thought the totem was just for focus and that Mari was godkin
    That was a later addition. What I got was that she got her powers from the totem but over time she was able to use them to an extent without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    They definitely hear the fan base, which is why they write stuff in the comics

    Just don’t expect meaningful change

    https://twitter.com/thebat_family/st...ASFOMWrfT-ukuQ
    Those are done by writers as a nod to the fanbase. That's not an indication of what the higher ups want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    I laugh because topics like this shows how out of touch some fans have become
    WB discovery is doing exactly what they should be doing

    All the HBO Max content is being geared at adults because that is what is selling right now. Kids are not paying for streaming services adults are and there are multiple options for them to get free content without having to pay including TV
    Even the content on Netflix made for kids is absolutely doing bad and part of the reason Netflix cancelled a swath of their animated shows

    If anything the only thing the new people in charge seem concerned about is reigning in costs
    Actually, the folks who are out of touch are the ones who can only profit off of 2 characters out of the 10,000 characters they own while tripping up with every other character they own.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Exactly! Vixen has a lot of qualities that can make her an A lister and there are a lot of existing DC villains that could be a part of her rogues gallery (ex: Orca, the Batwing version of Lion Mane).
    Plus she had a cartoon and a live action appearance before T'Challa did. So it's not like folks could claim that DC was just ripping off Marvel when she showed up ahead of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    It's even more ironic they wouldn't want to make something with Vixen because it's too similar to T'Challa, yet in the damn movies they made Darkseid be more like MCU's Thanos lol.
    A well done Darkseid could easily overshadow Thanos. But it's going to be hard to catch up now that Thanos has been in two of the biggest movies of all time.

    But I don't think they were intentionally trying to mimic Thanos. I just don't think Zack Snyder has the talent necessary to bring Darkseid to life and convey to the general audience what Darkseid is all about.

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