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[Robanker]

+ Veronica Cale, who is Lex but also a lady so even more interesting in this day and age of fake "girlboss" corporate feminism.

She actually has a more robust rogues gallery than Supes IMO.

I like Cale, I do. I think she is a great addition to Diana's rogues gallery.

She's not Lex Luthor. Sorry, but she just isn't. They haven't done enough with Cale for her to be as interesting as Lex. Yes, she likely dealt with sexism her entire way up the ladder but that doesn't automatically trump all the qualities that made Luthor a compelling character for eight decades. Certainly not when you consider he's one of the most well-known villains in fiction, opposite to THE superhero who by all rights should have no problems with him and yet amongst Brainiac, Zod, Parasite and many others, Luthor is Superman's most dangerous foe.

Veronica Cale isn't even in the conversation for Diana's, and I wouldn't say that Diana's rogues are significantly more dangerous than Clark's. If we're being fair, they're probably equal even if DC pretends she doesn't have one.

[Alpha]

The difference is Cale has more of a point when she says it because it is more difficult for a woman to make it in Man's World. Of course, that only underlines her hypocrisy in alienating and trying to bring down other powerful women. So I think she is different enough.

I'll get straight to the point, I don't like that Cale is a total copy of the Supes-Luthor dynamic. Despite the small nuances (that don't actually create a distinct dynamic) it's still another element that makes Diana's world less unique and memorable. I don't like reading it nor do I liketelling people about this character that is a cheap knock off. It makes Diana look like Superman in a corset.

Beyond that, I just don't ser the appeal of Diana vs the corporate world. She's an adventurer and a politician. Corporate CEO's are the least interesting foil for her. I mean, who actually wants to see a princess from a female utopia with a magic lasso fight corporate greed? Everything Cale does would be improved if it was Dr Poison.

In a cutthroat professional environment, they would be rivals to each other and may even want to see the other dead. But the presence of these god like figures that intimidate both of them forces them to cooperate, so it could be interesting.

My point is that they have the exact same type of speech, strategies, and desires. The only way I would enjoy this story is if Lex Luthor faced an alternate universe version of himself and it became a battle of egos that ended with Lex killing the other dude because there can only be one if him, and he realized how sad this was, but still didn't change or evolve.

You just described Doctor Psycho, minus the overt sexism. Though the Harley Quinn animated series succeeded in giving him a personality different enough from The Joker.

The only similarities between Dr Psycho and Joker are that they are both sadistic creeps. Psycho doesn't even have that deluded notion of him and Diana needing each other.

Whereas Cale and Luthor have the same job, dress the same way, have the same resources and strategies, have the exact same personality and dynamic with their arch enemies.

[Alpha]

She's a member of the Newsgirl Legion.

Where did you hear that? It sounds great.

[Frontier]

Where did you hear that? It sounds great.

I think it was part of a panel that showed off some footage?

[John Venus]

I mean, if we overthink to that degree, then Lex leading the Legion of Doom supervillains easily falls apart as well. With her resources, it made sense that Cale would be the one to organize and bring together Godwatch.

Barbara's fateful expedition that got her her powers was funded by Cale. Dr Cyber is Cale's assistant/lover. Dr Poison works for Cale. Circe showed up thanks to Cale. See the problem?

I don't mind her influencing some of the villains. Especially the lesser known ones but having all these villains who had individual reasons for targeting WW but now being adjacent to Cale's plot felt too much for me.

[Confuzzled]

Beyond that, I just don't ser the appeal of Diana vs the corporate world. She's an adventurer and a politician. Corporate CEO's are the least interesting foil for her. I mean, who actually wants to see a princess from a female utopia with a magic lasso fight corporate greed? Everything Cale does would be improved if it was Dr Poison.

Diana's politics majorly involve empowerment, and Veronica Cale is the perfect symbol of superficial corporate "feminism" propping up just one woman to a powerful position but doing nothing for other women (or in Cale's case, that same woman is fine exploiting other women and people who are below her power rung). So Diana vs. Veronica Cale is an interesting commentary on true feminism vs. "girlbossing".

And asking who is interested in watching Wonder Woman fight corporate greed is like asking who is interested in Superman fighting corporate greed for Superman vs. Lex. Cale like Luthor can obviously be used in stories where she is funding nefarious plans and villains. Doctor Poison is a totally different trope (the mad scientist or at times, the assassin) so I don't see how she is interchangeable with Veronica Cale either.

Also, is only ONE major corporate villain allowed in comics?

[Alpha]

Diana's politics majorly involve empowerment, and Veronica Cale is the perfect symbol of superficial corporate "feminism" propping up just one woman to a powerful position but doing nothing for other women (or in Cale's case, that same woman is fine exploiting other women and people who are below her power rung). So Diana vs. Veronica Cale is an interesting commentary on true feminism vs. "girlbossing".

I get the themes, I'm saying that I don't think a story about " Who does empowerment right" makes for an appealing concept, specially with someone like Wonder Woman.

And asking who is interested in watching Wonder Woman fight corporate greed is like asking who is interested in Superman fighting corporate greed for Superman vs. Lex. Cale like Luthor can obviously be used in stories where she is funding nefarious plans and villains.

Superman is the protector of Metropolis and the biggest public figure in the DC universe. That's why Lex Luthor works, because Superman's public image is crucial to Clark. Heck, it's also why I think Clark should be the one attending U.N. meetings instead of Diana, and maybe do the Calvin Ellis plot except with mainstream Superman.

Doctor Poison is a totally different trope (the mad scientist or at times, the assassin) so I don't see how she is interchangeable with Veronica Cale either.

Dr Poison was never an assassin before Rebirth (and it's a very bad take on the character). And I'm saying that Dr Poison is much better as a sadistic scientist with global pans and schemes to hurt Diana personally, by mutating her closest allies and creating tragedies that turn them against her. Imagine if during Rebirth you had Dr Poison do everything Cale was doing to Diana. Heck, that daughter plot could've worked just as well with an alternate origin story for DrPoison.

Also, is only ONE major corporate villain allowed in comics?

I think it's fine for Green Arrow and Batman to fight those villains, but Wonder Woman already has to fight the notion that she is just a female Superman. That's why I hate Genocide/ Doomsday and Veronica Cale/ Lex Luthor.

Green Arrow doesn't need a Joker. Wonder Woman doesn't need a Lex Luthor. Static Shock doesn't need a Venom.

[John Venus]

Nearly every WW villain is some kind of embodiment or reflection of a real world problem.

Ares/Mars: War
Hercules: Toxic Masculinity
Duke of Deception: Fake News
Dr Psycho: Misogyny
Eviless: Fascism
Zara: Cultism
Queen Clea: Slavery and Misandry
Giganta: Barbarism
Silver Swan: Rigid Beauty Standards
Dr Cyber: Technology based terrorist
Cheetah/Barbara Minerva: Colonizer/Evil Lara Croft

Cale completes the roster by being a corporate villain, something WW doesn't have before. Her Rogues Gallery has never had limitations. Aliens, sorcerers, Atlanteans, Norse deities, evil archaeologists, she's fought them all. A corporate villain is very relevant to what a modern day Wonder Woman would face.

[Vordan]

I thought pre-FP Cale was just a lame copy of Lex but Rucka’s Rebirth run dramatically improved my opinion of her and now I rather like her. Her daughter needs to be a key part of whatever it is she’s up to though. I like that she brings in a twisted mother-daughter dynamic in that she loves her daughter and is willing to commit heinous acts for her, a nice dark parallel to how Hippolyta feels about Diana. I think Cale fits that model better than pre-FP Circe did who I’d prefer to be childless for reasons of my own.

If they did do a WW:TAS show, what would you guys want to see? Set it in the present day? Would she be able to go back to Themyscaria?

[Alpha]

Cale completes the roster by being a corporate villain, something WW doesn't have before. Her Rogues Gallery has never had limitations. Aliens, sorcerers, Atlanteans, Norse deities, evil archaeologists, she's fought them all. A corporate villain is very relevant to what a modern day Wonder Woman would face.

Fine, then make her something totally different from Lex Luthor. Aside from their origin story during Rebirth, they have the exact same speech pattern, dynamic and type of disgust for their arch enemy.

I remember when Apollo was rocking a business suit during the Azzarello run. I liked that concept. Or maybe Maxie Zeus, a sexist delusional tool that literally thinks he is Zeus.

[Alpha]

If they did do a WW:TAS show, what would you guys want to see? Set it in the present day? Would she be able to go back to Themyscaria?

We have a thread about that in the Wonder Woman forum. Seems more appropriate.

[John Venus]

If they did do a WW:TAS show, what would you guys want to see? Set it in the present day? Would she be able to go back to Themyscaria?

Set in the present day. Absolutely no to the idea of her not being able to go back to Themyscira.

Donna Troy, Artemis, Nubia, Cassie, Phillipus and Etta Candy are all essential and no arguments otherwise.

[John Venus]

Fine, then make her something totally different from Lex Luthor. Aside from their origin story during Rebirth, they have the exact same speech pattern, dynamic and type of disgust for their arch enemy.

I remember when Apollo was rocking a business suit during the Azzarello run. I liked that concept. Or maybe Maxie Zeus, a sexist delusional tool that literally thinks he is Zeus.

lol, that's not as hard as you think.

She's a corporate shark who wants to tear down WW and every thing she stands for out of a twisted sense of revenge for her daughter getting caught in the cross fire between Diana's fight with the Greek Gods. On top of that, I would just pattern her off of the cosmetic industry, a more sinister and dangerous Gwyneth Paltrow type who takes advantage of women's insecurities about a literal Goddess walking the earth and lures them in with the promise of great power and beauty only to dupe them into being dependent on her and turning them into her henchwomen.

[Drako]

Nearly every WW villain is some kind of embodiment or reflection of a real world problem.

Ares/Mars: War
Hercules: Toxic Masculinity
Duke of Deception: Fake News
Dr Psycho: Misogyny
Eviless: Fascism
Zara: Cultism
Queen Clea: Slavery and Misandry
Giganta: Barbarism
Silver Swan: Rigid Beauty Standards
Dr Cyber: Technology based terrorist
Cheetah/Barbara Minerva: Colonizer/Evil Lara Croft

Cale completes the roster by being a corporate villain, something WW doesn't have before. Her Rogues Gallery has never had limitations. Aliens, sorcerers, Atlanteans, Norse deities, evil archaeologists, she's fought them all. A corporate villain is very relevant to what a modern day Wonder Woman would face.

Evil Lara Croft might be the worst real world problem.

[I'm a Fish]

Nearly every WW villain is some kind of embodiment or reflection of a real world problem.

Ares/Mars: War
Hercules: Toxic Masculinity
Duke of Deception: Fake News
Dr Psycho: Misogyny
Eviless: Fascism
Zara: Cultism
Queen Clea: Slavery and Misandry
Giganta: Barbarism
Silver Swan: Rigid Beauty Standards
Dr Cyber: Technology based terrorist
Cheetah/Barbara Minerva: Colonizer/Evil Lara Croft

Cale completes the roster by being a corporate villain, something WW doesn't have before. Her Rogues Gallery has never had limitations. Aliens, sorcerers, Atlanteans, Norse deities, evil archaeologists, she's fought them all. A corporate villain is very relevant to what a modern day Wonder Woman would face.

Shouldn’t we start calling Lara Croft “Good Barbara Minerva” since she beat her to the British/archeologist who uses pistols by a decade :P

Especially since all of her (admittedly few) live action ventures have barely used her villains. I just saw a comment on YouTube the other day of someone under the impression that Wonder Woman doesn't have a Rogues Gallery at all... which is stupefying because Villainy Inc. was the first supervillain team-up in all of comics!

A WWTAS would definitely do for the Wonder Villains what BTAS did for Batman's Rogues Gallery. And show people that there are more female supervillains beyond Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn.

Someone show this YouTuber WW: Bloodlines, quick!

The soul purpose of that movie is to show her villains, lol. Wish the movie was longer so it could have done a better job but now no one can say she doesn’t have a rouge’s gallery.