DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[Vordan]

I don't know if I'd call it a "serious" push but it's probably the most significant they've done with animation in a while.

Granted, without seeing the actual shows it's hard to gauge if they'll be quality or on par with some of the best DC shows. Like, What If was pretty inconsistent and hopefully Marvel Zombies will have a better tonal balance than the actual Zombies episode, they're making yet another high school Spider-Man cartoon this time even more derivative of the MCU, and we have to see whether they can make a revival of the 90's X-Men cartoon work.

So, like, it's cool, but it's not like they're making A-tier Avengers, Spider-Man, X-Men, and FF cartoons yet either.

Yeah, but Avengers was also a pretty big misstep. I know with Gotham Knights and SS we view that as Bat-Focused but I'm not expecting those to be bombs like Avengers.

Here’s the difference: Marvel is still taking risks in the video game arena and DC is not. Where’s the non-Batman solo game? Because even with Avengers flopping Marvel isn’t just going back to only doing Spidey like you know they’ll do with Batman if GK and SS flop. Both look pretty bad to me by the way, utterly done with GAAS.

Marvel recently hired folks who worked on Legend of Korra. Yeah, they're serious about animation. What If was their warm up. We are probably going to get some seriously good shows in the upcoming years.

Since D+ just announced a continuation of the 90's X-Men show with some of the cast members returning, WB is probably going to do some rush cash grab attempt by reviving B:TAS and it will be polarizing.

Batman: The Caped Crusader is already exactly that, it’s a spiritual sequel with Timm in charge.

[John Venus]

Eh I feel like the overall quality of the recent DC animated movies has decreased over the years. It's not really like the 2000s where they were legit really good. There's def a vacuum there to slot into

Same. DC was always ahead in animation. But they really dipped in quality during the Nu52 movies. They rarely adapt anything besides Batman and Superman and their recent outings have looked cheap. They seriously need to invest more in their roster. We barely got a JSA movie and it was more about Flash, WW, Aquaman, oh and an evil Superman plus 'Knightmare' like teases of future movies rather than anything really concrete about the JSA.

[Rac7d*]

Yeah, let's continue to pretend those films are as good as they were 10+ years ago.

Granted, Injustice being bad was well-earned egg in the face moment for that franchise.

Why would you stay somewhere your not having a good time

[Confuzzled]

Marvel recently hired folks who worked on Legend of Korra. Yeah, they're serious about animation. What If was their warm up. We are probably going to get some seriously good shows in the upcoming years.

With the exception of 90's X-Men*, they are all MCU tie-ins. So apparently Marvel has just about given up on everything that's not MCU related in some way or the other.


*And the X-Men show also seems like a stop gap effort to reintroduce the franchise to people before the MCU X-Men are introduced, after which it will probably be replaced with the MCU X-Men tie-in show.

[The Kid]

Marvel recently hired folks who worked on Legend of Korra. Yeah, they're serious about animation. What If was their warm up. We are probably going to get some seriously good shows in the upcoming years.

Since D+ just announced a continuation of the 90's X-Men show with some of the cast members returning, WB is probably going to do some rush cash grab attempt by reviving B:TAS and it will be polarizing.

I think Caped Crusader will probably be the B:TAS revival. I actually this and the new Superman show so far look great. But more DC related shows featuring other characters would be nice

[SiegePerilous02]

Most of the DTVs are Batman and to a lesser extent Superman related, and they are not that good and are more niche than they used to be. We could certainly aim higher.

If the success of Aquaman only resulted in this weird thing that's coming out for him now and we still haven't ever gotten a Wonder Woman cartoon by now, I doubt any DCEU inspired cartoons are going to ever happen.

The new Superman cartoon seems to be shaping up to be the biggest breath of fresh air in the animation department, but it is still starring a character who has a long history of cartoons while others have none (as badly as he needs another one). Caped Crusaser will likely be a huge hit, but considering it's going to be Bruce Timm unleashed with no checks and balances, I'm wary of some of the creative decisions that might occur.

[Confuzzled]

I think Caped Crusader will probably be the B:TAS revival. I actually this and the new Superman show so far look great. But more DC related shows featuring other characters would be nice

There are a TON of non-Bat/Supes shows out now actually. They just aren't animation (though Young Justice, Harley Quinn, Aquaman: King of Atlantis, and for the younger crowd, DC Superhero Girls and Teen Titans Go! are around, so it's not like they are non-existent). It's still a far more diverse offering than MCU! MCU! MCU! that Marvel is heaping on.

[John Venus]

With the exception of 90's X-Men*, they are all MCU tie-ins. So apparently Marvel has just about given up on everything that's not MCU related in some way or the other.


*And the X-Men show also seems like a stop gap effort to reintroduce the franchise to people before the MCU X-Men are introduced, after which it will probably be replaced with the MCU X-Men tie-in show.

If in 5-6 years if all they're doing is MCU tie ins, I would agree with you. But given their track record, we will probably get content that's not directly tied into the MCU as well. They would have to since tying into the MCU would be creatively limiting. As you yourself stated, the X-Men show is not tied into the MCU.

There are a TON of non-Bat/Supes shows out now actually. They just aren't animation (though Young Justice, Harley Quinn, Aquaman: King of Atlantis, and for the younger crowd, DC Superhero Girls and Teen Titans Go! are around, so it's not like they are non-existent). It's still a far more diverse offering than MCU! MCU! MCU! that Marvel is heaping on.

We are talking solo shows though. We get solo Batman and Superman content and then shows or movie that may as well be titled 'And Every One Else' whether that takes the form of Justice League Action, Young Justice or the Super Hero Girls (Teen Titans are an established team so that's different).

While I appreciate shows targeted at younger audiences, like Aquaman: KoA, when are we going to get a something akin to B:TAS and S:TAS for Flash, Green Lantern (we got a one season show that was cancelled), Green Arrow, Black Canary, John Stewart and most importantly WONDER WOMAN?

[Frontier]

And two of those are Batman or Batman related usually! They still haven’t made a Flash solo film ffs. And even then the quality of those films has been uneven ever since they slashed the budget post Flashpoint

They had a JSA movie with Flash and Wonder Woman. They're doing Super Sons, Catwoman, Green Lantern, DC Showcase, etc. Even uneven they've churned out better animated works than the entire Loeb era of Marvel Animation.

It's like Marvel does a few things and suddenly all the good stuff DC does gets negated or forgotten about just because of a few Batman works.

Marvel recently hired folks who worked on Legend of Korra. Yeah, they're serious about animation. What If was their warm up. We are probably going to get some seriously good shows in the upcoming years.

I think people from Korra are working on DC cartoons too, although I might be thinking of the She-Ra staff on My Adventures with Superman.

What If was also pretty inconsistent so I don't know if we have a good barometer for quality at this point.

Since D+ just announced a continuation of the 90's X-Men show with some of the cast members returning, WB is probably going to do some rush cash grab attempt by reviving B:TAS and it will be polarizing.

Well, they did a comic revival that's now on its second season.

Here’s the difference: Marvel is still taking risks in the video game arena and DC is not. Where’s the non-Batman solo game? Because even with Avengers flopping Marvel isn’t just going back to only doing Spidey like you know they’ll do with Batman if GK and SS flop. Both look pretty bad to me by the way, utterly done with GAAS.

They might but I don't think it'll mean they won't produce DC games with other characters.

Batman: The Caped Crusader is already exactly that, it’s a spiritual sequel with Timm in charge.

Emphasis on spiritual successor, so that even if it's still evocative of B:TAS it's still newer than, say, wholesalereviving the 90's X-Men cartoon. But I'm still looking forward to that.

Same. DC was always ahead in animation. But they really dipped in quality during the Nu52 movies. They rarely adapt anything besides Batman and Superman and their recent outings have looked cheap. They seriously need to invest more in their roster. We barely got a JSA movie and it was more about Flash, WW, Aquaman, oh and an evil Superman plus 'Knightmare' like teases of future movies rather than anything really concrete about the JSA.

People talk about the animated movies looking cheap and while they have their animation issues I feel like people give them a bad rep compared to how cheap Marvel Animation has looked for a while. Especially when we still get some good looking films.

I don't think Marvel is that better with all the MCU derivative stuff or how often they shake things up with characters.

If in 5-6 years if all they're doing is MCU tie ins, I would agree with you. But given their track record, we will probably get content that's not directly tied into the MCU as well. They would have to since tying into the MCU would be creatively limiting. As you yourself stated, the X-Men show is not tied into the MCU.

Why would they want to though? All DisMarvel ever are is gung-ho about the MCU and expanding on that universe rather than doing something new and original with their IP's outside of, maybe, video games.

We are talking solo shows though. We get solo Batman and Superman content and then shows or movie that may as well be titled 'And Every One Else' whether that takes the form of Justice League Action, Young Justice or the Super Hero Girls (Teen Titans are an established team so that's different).

While I appreciate shows targeted at younger audiences, like Aquaman: KoA, when are we going to get a something akin to B:TAS and S:TAS for Flash, Green Lantern (we got a one season show that was cancelled), Green Arrow, Black Canary, John Stewart and most importantly WONDER WOMAN?

GL:TAS was short-lived but it was basically the equivalent for the GL properties unless because Hal was the lead it's automatically discredited from counting.

The only solo's Marvel produces these days are Spider-Man and Disney+ MCU spinoffs.

[John Venus]

They had a JSA movie with Flash and Wonder Woman. They're doing Super Sons, Catwoman, Green Lantern, DC Showcase, etc. Even uneven they've churned out better animated works than the entire Loeb era of Marvel Animation.

It's like Marvel does a few things and suddenly all the good stuff DC does gets negated or forgotten about just because of a few Batman works.

Batman:
7 Solo Animated Shows
14 Solo Animated Movies
8 Solo Live Action Movies
3 Live Action Shows ('66, Gotham, Pennyworth)

Superman:
1 Solo Animated Shows
8 Solo Animated Movies
6 Solo Live Action Movies
5 Live Action Shows (Superboy, Lois & Clark, Smallville, Supergirl, Superman & Lois)

Wonder Woman:

0 Solo Animated Shows
2 Solo Animated Movies
2 Solo Live Action Movies
1 Live Action Show (from the 70's)

Green Lantern:

1 Solo Animated Show
3 Solo Animated Movies (counting the upcoming movie )
1 Solo Movie (that was horrible)
1 Upcoming Live Action Show


Flash:

0 Solo Animated Shows
1 Solo Animated Movie
0 Solo Movie (the upcoming Flash movie is not a solo movie since it's got Keaton and Supergirl in it)
2 Solo Live Action TV Shows


This does not include the Superman/Batman animated movies as well as Justice League, Suicide Squad and Justice League Dark wherein Batman and Superman plays an important role.

Trust me, I would be here complaining about the Superman and Batman proliferation even if Marvel never bothered to animate any of their characters. And no it's not a case of fanboys getting riled up because Batman and Superman got a 'few' movies. It has always been an issue of a couple of characters getting an overwhelming amount of attention compared to the others.

Showcase is literally just scraps at the audience. Ensembles are fine but characters also benefit from solo outings where they aren't fighting for screen time and can flourish. You're telling Flash and WW can pull 700+ issues of comics but their only place is an ensemble setting.

I think people from Korra are working on DC cartoons too, although I might be thinking of the She-Ra staff on My Adventures with Superman.

A director from the Avatar-verse worked on GL:TAS which DC cancelled. Lauren Montgomery and Joaquim De Santos who worked on the Avatar verse, JLU and the early good stuff from the DC DTV line are working on Voltron now. The only tangential connection to Korra and DC is that Studio Mir is currently animated Young Justice.

What If was also pretty inconsistent so I don't know if we have a good barometer for quality at this point.

We'll have to wait and see.

They might but I don't think it'll mean they won't produce DC games with other characters.

Why haven't they yet?

Emphasis on spiritual successor, so that even if it's still evocative of B:TAS it's still newer than, say, wholesalereviving the 90's X-Men cartoon. But I'm still looking forward to that.

Lets just hope Timm doesn't burn all the good will he's earned from the DCAU.

People talk about the animated movies looking cheap and while they have their animation issues I feel like people give them a bad rep compared to how cheap Marvel Animation has looked for a while. Especially when we still get some good looking films.
I don't think Marvel is that better with all the MCU derivative stuff or how often they shake things up with characters.

Why would they want to though? All DisMarvel ever are is gung-ho about the MCU and expanding on that universe rather than doing something new and original with their IP's outside of, maybe, video games.

This is not about Marvel vs DC. Even if you take Marvel out of the equation all together, the fact is, the animation side of the DCU has been on a downward slope since the Nu52 movies. There is some hope with the Tomorrowverse but is this really the best that can be done with these characters. Whats happening is that Marvel making a push into animation is bringing up already existing grivenaces with DC Animations. Criticisms that would be valid even if Marvel never did animation at all.

GL:TAS was short-lived but it was basically the equivalent for the GL properties unless because Hal was the lead it's automatically discredited from counting.

The only solo's Marvel produces these days are Spider-Man and Disney+ MCU spinoffs.

The problem is they never bothered to try again after the series went under. It was only recently they announced another GL movie.

Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk, X-Men, Avengers, Silver Surfer, Guardians of the Galaxy, Miles Morales Spider-Man, Big Hero 6 have all had their animated shows/movies. Some more than one. The fact is even if Spider-Man gets a lot of love in adaptations, it has never felt like the others were neglected. Marvel has always been equitable with their properties than DC.

[Frontier]

This does not include the Superman/Batman animated movies as well as Justice League, Suicide Squad and Justice League Dark wherein Batman and Superman plays an important role.

Trust me, I would be here complaining about the Superman and Batman proliferation even if Marvel never bothered to animate any of their characters. And no it's not a case of fanboys getting riled up because Batman and Superman got a 'few' movies. It has always been an issue of a couple of characters getting an overwhelming amount of attention compared to the others.

But that doesn't mean other characters never get content though. Maybe not solo stuff (although Flash got a Lego movie), but still.

Showcase is literally just scraps at the audience. Ensembles are fine but characters also benefit from solo outings where they aren't fighting for screen time and can flourish. You're telling Flash and WW can pull 700+ issues of comics but their only place is an ensemble setting.

Showcase is awesome though. Green Arrow? Jonah Hex? Phantom Stranger? Adam Strange? Death? It's a great spotlight in a short format.

I'm not saying characters should be relegated to an ensemble (although I feel like The Flash TV show might have some impact there) but they can be nicely displayed in said ensemble.

A director from the Avatar-verse worked on GL:TAS which DC cancelled. Lauren Montgomery and Joaquim De Santos who worked on the Avatar verse, JLU and the early good stuff from the DC DTV line are working on Voltron now. The only tangential connection to Korra and DC is that Studio Mir is currently animated Young Justice.

I think some storyboard artists and producers still make the rounds too but I might be wrong.

Why haven't they yet?

We can't say for certainty, any more than we can say for certainty that they aren't currently producing stuff we don't know about.

Lets just hope Timm doesn't burn all the good will he's earned from the DCAU.

It's not just him at least. I feel like it's as much James Tucker show as it is Timm's.

This is not about Marvel vs DC. Even if you take Marvel out of the equation all together, the fact is, the animation side of the DCU has been on a downward slope since the Nu52 movies. There is some hope with the Tomorrowverse but is this really the best that can be done with these characters. Whats happening is that Marvel making a push into animation is bringing up already existing grivenaces with DC Animations. Criticisms that would be valid even if Marvel never did animation at all.

I think people are a little too hard on the animated movie line after the initial New 52 animated films. I'm not saying there haven't been clunker's but I think there have also been plenty of genuinely good movies to still come out of the line. And stuff we would probably never have seen from Marvel.

The problem is they never bothered to try again after the series went under. It was only recently they announced another GL movie.

Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk, X-Men, Avengers, Silver Surfer, Guardians of the Galaxy, Miles Morales Spider-Man, Big Hero 6 have all had their animated shows/movies. Some more than one. The fact is even if Spider-Man gets a lot of love in adaptations, it has never felt like the others were neglected. Marvel has always been equitable with their properties than DC.

Because of the stink of the live-action movie.

Marvel is nowhere near as experimental as they were in the 90's when it comes to cartoons and stuff like Miles is Sony, not Marvel.

And even so, the X-Men and FF were basically persona non grata in the cartoons for years because of the movie rights issues and the Avengers and Guardians had to deal with having cartoons produced under the Jeph Loeb era which I don't think DC's TV animation has ever been as low level in quality.

[Vordan]

I think the big difference for me Frontier is that I believe that Marvel cares about the Marvel Universe as a whole, is willing to take risks to bring lesser known corners of it to the mainstream, and won’t just give up and fall back on the A-Listers after one failure. In contrast DC seems utterly uninterested in anything outside of Gotham at best and outright contemptuous at worst. The GL movie flopping has caused them to treat the GL franchise as tainted, they’ve completely failed to take advantage of the Flash TV’s show popularity at its height, or make a WW TAS even after her first movie’s success, and they have made zero signs in being willing to make a video game that doesn’t center Batman or Batman characters in some way. It’s just frustrating as hell

[Rac7d*]

Could any flash material ever surpass flashpoint?

Wonder Woman Bloodlines is the least grossing solo animated films of the animated DCU. Wonder Woman is a trinity member, who was on deck for another live action movie after a successful first. What's gonna make DC give someone less know a chance after something like that. Marvel can take risk, because they have built up enough GOOD WILL and Audience Trust, that they will try something new without judgement. DC animated films are famous for early leaks and being the top pirated. Honestly, at the price of hbomax all the movies should land their after a month.

Since the DC sucks mentality is lodged into everyone's brain, combined with multiple company scandals, and surely a tightened budged after the HBOMAX failed day and date releases why are they gonna test unknown waters. Their is not logical explanation or debate that would convince anyone to invest their money into somthing like that..... at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Uni...riginal_Movies

I believe opportunity's will arise its just gonna take some time, between the , getting out the next 4 big films, the merger and relaunch of the HBOMAX

[Gaius]

Why would you stay somewhere your not having a good time

Oh, I did give up on those movies a long while go. Only came back for Bloodlines and to have a good laugh at the reactions to Injustice.

[John Venus]

Because of the stink of the live-action movie.

We know. The point is they chickened out after one failure and didn't try again in animation for years. They also failed to capitalize on their successes. We would be complaining regardless of whether Marvel makes a new show or not. So getting defensive 'oh but Marvel made clunkers' too doesn't really help DC's case. It's also hard to accept 'shorts' when even lesser known characters from the competitions side is getting entire big budget tv shows. We are supposed to just settle with a SHORT starring Ray Palmer (along with an ensemble appearance in CW's DC TV verse) while freaking Ant-Man is about to complete a solo trilogy?