DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[The Kid]

I think the big difference for me Frontier is that I believe that Marvel cares about the Marvel Universe as a whole, is willing to take risks to bring lesser known corners of it to the mainstream, and won’t just give up and fall back on the A-Listers after one failure. In contrast DC seems utterly uninterested in anything outside of Gotham at best and outright contemptuous at worst. The GL movie flopping has caused them to treat the GL franchise as tainted, they’ve completely failed to take advantage of the Flash TV’s show popularity at its height, or make a WW TAS even after her first movie’s success, and they have made zero signs in being willing to make a video game that doesn’t center Batman or Batman characters in some way. It’s just frustrating as hell

This is really it. And it's seen in every piece of media. Film, animation, video game, etc..

[Rac7d*]

I think the big difference for me Frontier is that I believe that Marvel cares about the Marvel Universe as a whole, is willing to take risks to bring lesser known corners of it to the mainstream, and won’t just give up and fall back on the A-Listers after one failure. In contrast DC seems utterly uninterested in anything outside of Gotham at best and outright contemptuous at worst. The GL movie flopping has caused them to treat the GL franchise as tainted, they’ve completely failed to take advantage of the Flash TV’s show popularity at its height, or make a WW TAS even after her first movie’s success, and they have made zero signs in being willing to make a video game that doesn’t center Batman or Batman characters in some way. It’s just frustrating as hell

They only take risks because then can afford too, its not a gamble, when you haul in as much money on them with guaranteed character lines. Who care if antman cant clear 500 mill when you know you have 3 more billion dollar movies in the year.

Wonder Woman basically has to start over
If the Flash film does well, then DC will definitely make solo animated material, right now they know his face front and center with wonder woman did nothing for that JL society film.

[Confuzzled]

If in 5-6 years if all they're doing is MCU tie ins, I would agree with you. But given their track record, we will probably get content that's not directly tied into the MCU as well. They would have to since tying into the MCU would be creatively limiting. As you yourself stated, the X-Men show is not tied into the MCU.

Their track record is cancelling shows that are actually good (Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Spectacular) and replacing them with drivel. And the lesser said about the treatment of the X-Men and Fantastic Four in the 2010's the better.

It's kind of a huge cause for concern that 4/5 of their announced animated shows are MCU tied and hamstrung by the limitations of that incredibly specific world. And as I said, X-Men is just nostalgia grab (hey grown-ups, remember when you first discovered the X-Men?) and a stop gap until they introduce MCU X-Men, after which it will sail away.

We are talking solo shows though.

Then why did the Marvel announcements trigger this discussion as all of those shows save Spider-Man (their literal flagship character) and the Groot shorts are team or universe spanning/non-character specific shows?

While I appreciate shows targeted at younger audiences, like Aquaman: KoA, when are we going to get a something akin to B:TAS and S:TAS for Flash, Green Lantern (we got a one season show that was cancelled), Green Arrow, Black Canary, John Stewart and most importantly WONDER WOMAN?

Does Flash need a live action show AND an animated show at the same time? It doesn't make sense. Ditto for Green Lantern that has its own live action show on the way. Also, it's not like DC didn't try bolstering the GL brand in the late 00's and early 10's with multiple animated movies, an animated show, a live action movie etc.

Black Canary is getting her own film soon, and I don't think she would be the best bet for a solo animated series.

Out of that list, I think Wonder Woman is the only one who deserves a WWTAS to truly define her Rogues and supporting cast as her live action appearances didn't do that and she is only sparingly given solo outings in animation.

[Frontier]

I think the big difference for me Frontier is that I believe that Marvel cares about the Marvel Universe as a whole, is willing to take risks to bring lesser known corners of it to the mainstream, and won’t just give up and fall back on the A-Listers after one failure. In contrast DC seems utterly uninterested in anything outside of Gotham at best and outright contemptuous at worst. The GL movie flopping has caused them to treat the GL franchise as tainted, they’ve completely failed to take advantage of the Flash TV’s show popularity at its height, or make a WW TAS even after her first movie’s success, and they have made zero signs in being willing to make a video game that doesn’t center Batman or Batman characters in some way. It’s just frustrating as hell

I think it's a matter of degrees.

Like, we talk about Marvel caring about their whole universe but they were fine with pretending the X-Men and FF didn't exist in outside media for years and mostly promoted stuff that was in the movies and became popular.

DC had non-Bat stuff on TV with the Arrowverse like, as you say, The Flash.

We know. The point is they chickened out after one failure and didn't try again in animation for years. They also failed to capitalize on their successes. We would be complaining regardless of whether Marvel makes a new show or not. So getting defensive 'oh but Marvel made clunkers' too doesn't really help DC's case. It's also hard to accept 'shorts' when even lesser known characters from the competitions side is getting entire big budget tv shows. We are supposed to just settle with a SHORT starring Ray Palmer (along with an ensemble appearance in CW's DC TV verse) while freaking Ant-Man is about to complete a solo trilogy?

I mean, personally I'm happy with fun DC Nation Atom shorts as much as I would be more Ray Palmer content, but he was also pretty prominent in the Arrowverse. But that's just me.

[John Venus]

They only take risks because then can afford too, its not a gamble, when you haul in as much money on them with guaranteed character lines. Who care if antman cant clear 500 mill when you know you have 3 more billion dollar movies in the year.

Wonder Woman basically has to start over
If the Flash film does well, then DC will definitely make solo animated material, right now they know his face front and center with wonder woman did nothing for that JL society film.

So now the excuse is Marvel afford can to take risks while poor DC/WB is strapped for cash? WB literally made the most profitable R Rated movie with the Joker. They made shows like S:TAS , Batman Beyond, JLU and Static Shock at a time when none of those characters were on the big screen. Some of them were even risky and experimental. The only solid action show we are getting now is Young Justice. The WB/DC of today would have never green lit something like Batman Beyond or Static Shock.

Their track record is cancelling shows that are actually good (Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Spectacular) and replacing them with drivel. And the lesser said about the treatment of the X-Men and Fantastic Four in the 2010's the better.

The terrible MCU cash based shows happened during Loeb's era. We had good animated shows before that. He's out now and they're making an effort to create new animated content.

Then why did the Marvel announcements trigger this discussion as all of those shows save Spider-Man (their literal flagship character) and the Groot shorts are team or universe spanning/non-character specific shows?

Maybe you haven't noticeable but variations of 'WB doesn't give a shit about anybody besides Superman and Batman' discussion happens every other week on this forum. Last time it was triggered by the announcements of new solo shows for Superman and Batman. This time it was triggered by Marvel making new animated and focusing on their animation side.

Does Flash need a live action show AND an animated show at the same time? It doesn't make sense. Ditto for Green Lantern that has its own live action show on the way. Also, it's not like DC didn't try bolstering the GL brand in the late 00's and early 10's with multiple animated movies, an animated show, a live action movie etc.

Why doesn't it make sense? 'Lois & Clark' ran almost concurrently with Superman: TAS. We have Tomorrowverse Superman simultaneously with CW Superman. Animated follow ups to movies used to be a staple. It's weird when we don't get it.

DC did two GL movies and then threw in the towel to do more Superman, Batman and Justice League movies.

They did one GL movie and it flopped. Taking the YJ and the GL animated show with it.

We have nothing concrete on the GL tv show except some casting announcements and they've been teasing GL on tv without delivering since around the time Supergirl debuted.

Black Canary is getting her own film soon, and I don't think she would be the best bet for a solo animated series.

If she is good enough for a live action film or show then she is good enough for animation. Especially with the wealth of source material available.

Out of that list, I think Wonder Woman is the only one who deserves a WWTAS to truly define her Rogues and supporting cast as her live action appearances didn't do that and she is only sparingly given solo outings in animation.

Every character deserves a fair shot at an adaptation (WW most of all considering how far they've lagged behind) and the right creative team can make any character sing.

And how are defining 'deserve'? Is it based on some arbitrary ranking of which characters are A-list or B-list?

I think it's a matter of degrees.

Like, we talk about Marvel caring about their whole universe but they were fine with pretending the X-Men and FF didn't exist in outside media for years and mostly promoted stuff that was in the movies and became popular.

You mean that whole Ike Perlmutter led period where they tried replace the mutants with Inhumans? Fox was still pumping out X-Men movies at that period. Secret Wars event which happened around that time was heavily tied to FF and Doom. We are getting a new FF movie soon and we've had an ongoing since 2018. We had FF and X-Men cartoons during the 90's and 00's. They'll make more once the live action movies roll out. Ultimately in the grande scheme of things, the push to replace X-Men and FF with Inhumans was only a small part of it and will be remembered as another 'Heroes Reborn' or 'The Crossing' style 'what the hell were they thinking' moments of Marvel history.

[Rac7d*]

So now the excuse is Marvel afford can to take risks while poor DC/WB is strapped for cash? WB literally made the most profitable R Rated movie with the Joker. They made shows like S:TAS , Batman Beyond, JLU and Static Shock at a time when none of those characters were on the big screen. Some of them were even risky and experimental. The only solid action show we are getting now is Young Justice. The WB/DC of today would have never green lit something like Batman Beyond or Static Shock.

Call it an excuse or whatever you want its the truth. Why do you think they labled Batgirl Static and Blue beetle as risky films.
Joker is not a risk, a comic book titled Joker, outsells every superhero that is not batman, who does not appear in the joker comic.
They cant predict how others will perform. Its all about a bottom line. Were in Different times, can't be compared to today. Cable is dead, subscription streaming is where it's at, they gonna produce show that they know people are willing to pay to see. Batman and Superman are proven, in animation to be draws, that link I showed you, all superman and batman animated films still make a nifty profit. Wonder woman recently failed twice in animation, so of course its more difficult persuade the studio to give her a chance.

Luckily DC cannot justify only doing Caucasian heroes anymore money be danmed, which is why a static shock show and milestone animation is on the way

[Vordan]

Could any flash material ever surpass flashpoint?

I certainly think so, although admittedly all of the “great” Flash stories are Wally’s. Regardless, animation lets you do long term storytelling in a way movies don’t and they let you go wilder with the designs and powers in a way that isn’t feasible for live action.

[Frontier]

You mean that whole Ike Perlmutter led period where they tried replace the mutants with Inhumans? Fox was still pumping out X-Men movies at that period. Secret Wars event which happened around that time was heavily tied to FF and Doom. We are getting a new FF movie soon and we've had an ongoing since 2018. We had FF and X-Men cartoons during the 90's and 00's. They'll make more once the live action movies roll out. Ultimately in the grande scheme of things, the push to replace X-Men and FF with Inhumans was only a small part of it and will be remembered as another 'Heroes Reborn' or 'The Crossing' style 'what the hell were they thinking' moments of Marvel history.

I was taking about how the X-Men and FF couldn't appear in cartoons or in major promotional stuff for years. Like, to the point where they were phased out of Marvel vs. Capcom and even on posters with every Marvel character.

At best we would get maybe an occasional Wolverine appearance guest-starring but even that stopped for a while. The last X-Men cartoon was in 2009. FF? 2006.

Even Scarlet Witch was, like, the only major Avenger not to appear in the Avengers Assemble cartoon that was all about featuring the movie Avengers because of the rights issues. Which in hindsight is actually a good thing, but still.

I certainly think so, although admittedly all of the “great” Flash stories are Wally’s. Regardless, animation lets you do long term storytelling in a way movies don’t and they let you go wilder with the designs and powers in a way that isn’t feasible for live action.

I would certainly love for a Flash production that can actually do The Rogues justice.

Like I got giddy when they mentioned Weather Wizard in the latest episode of Young Justice but then I remembered they kind of turned their version of Captain Cold into a joke.

[Lukmendes]

So today I learned that YJ's season 4 is out and I watched the episodes, and man, I'm glad my prediction was wrong.

The prediction was that YJ would only get worse per season, 'cause season 1 was pretty good, season 2 was, okay, and season 3 is basically season 2 but without any of the good things in season 2, and Dick's an even bigger unlikable asshole... But watching seaon 4 with this format with separated story arcs and not focusing on too many characters is nice, hope it keeps up.

[Frontier]

So today I learned that YJ's season 4 is out and I watched the episodes, and man, I'm glad my prediction was wrong.

The prediction was that YJ would only get worse per season, 'cause season 1 was pretty good, season 2 was, okay, and season 3 is basically season 2 but without any of the good things in season 2, and Dick's an even bigger unlikable asshole... But watching seaon 4 with this format with separated story arcs and not focusing on too many characters is nice, hope it keeps up.

I'm glad you're enjoying it .

[Rightoya]

Wonder woman recently failed twice in animation, so of course its more difficult persuade the studio to give her a chance.

Is this a joke, how can Wonder Woman fail twice in animation with just a single recent movie, and have you even seen Bloodlines? Even Batman would have probably failed with such a movie, because it was completely overloaded and lacked any focus, and anyone but Batman would have failed for sure.

This excuse sounds almost as bad as what they said about live-action movies back then, that female superhero movies don't work, because trash like Catwoman, Elektra, and Supergirl flopped. And this meta-excuse wouldn't even work for female superheroes in animated series, because it's absolutely proven that they work.

[I'm a Fish]

Call it an excuse or whatever you want its the truth. Why do you think they labled Batgirl Static and Blue beetle as risky films.

All female lead and films with non-Caucasian leads were labeled “risky” until they weren’t. Why? Because the executives chose to blame the gender or skin color of the character instead of the obvious terrible writing. Never mind that Blade was actually a successful franchise.

Joker is not a risk, a comic book titled Joker, outsells every superhero that is not batman, who does not appear in the joker comic.

R rated superhero films were considered risky too. Do you really think Joker would have got made if Deadpool wasn’t a success?

They cant predict how others will perform. Its all about a bottom line. Were in Different times, can't be compared to today. Cable is dead, subscription streaming is where it's at, they gonna produce show that they know people are willing to pay to see. Batman and Superman are proven, in animation to be draws, that link I showed you, all superman and batman animated films still make a nifty profit. Wonder woman recently failed twice in animation, so of course its more difficult persuade the studio to give her a chance.

Isn’t her first animated film in the top 5 best sellers for DC animated flicks?

Luckily DC cannot justify only doing Caucasian heroes anymore money be danmed, which is why a static shock show and milestone animation is on the way

There was no justification. Captain America preformed on the low end at the BO but Marvel didn’t blame the character and green lit a sequel that was successful.

Static prove to be successful in animation upon his debut. So what excuse did WB have for not following up with animated figures like they did with Batman: The Animated Series?

[Lukmendes]

I was taking about how the X-Men and FF couldn't appear in cartoons or in major promotional stuff for years. Like, to the point where they were phased out of Marvel vs. Capcom and even on posters with every Marvel character.

I forgot to reply to this, but I'll say having less X-Men characters in Marvel 3 is at least more understandable, since Marvel 2 was around when the X-Men were huge, by the time of Marvel 3, they weren't as big, and Marvel vs Capcom is a game that is gonna use currently popular characters, and a few B or C listers.

That being said, Infinite went too fucking far, even if we say that X-Men aren't that popular anymore by that time, X-Men characters are a huge part of MvC games, specially Wolverine and Magneto, Wolverine 'cause, he's Wolverine, and Magneto because he was a really popular top/god tier in both Marvel 2 and 3, so at least, at the very least, those two should be in Infinite, but yeah, Perlmutter or Disney was throwing that tantrum made both X-Men and F4 get fucked over, which was really noticeable with the X-Men.

Static prove to be successful in animation upon his debut. So what excuse did WB have for not following up with animated figures like they did with Batman: The Animated Series?

Somewhat unrelated, but I hope Static in YJ's season 4, if he gets screen time, gets to do more than in season 3, where he just whined about not having a girlfriend...

[Frontier]

I forgot to reply to this, but I'll say having less X-Men characters in Marvel 3 is at least more understandable, since Marvel 2 was around when the X-Men were huge, by the time of Marvel 3, they weren't as big, and Marvel vs Capcom is a game that is gonna use currently popular characters, and a few B or C listers.

That being said, Infinite went too fucking far, even if we say that X-Men aren't that popular anymore by that time, X-Men characters are a huge part of MvC games, specially Wolverine and Magneto, Wolverine 'cause, he's Wolverine, and Magneto because he was a really popular top/god tier in both Marvel 2 and 3, so at least, at the very least, those two should be in Infinite, but yeah, Perlmutter or Disney was throwing that tantrum made both X-Men and F4 get fucked over, which was really noticeable with the X-Men.

I was speaking about Infinite specifically.

Somewhat unrelated, but I hope Static in YJ's season 4, if he gets screen time, gets to do more than in season 3, where he just whined about not having a girlfriend...

Hopefully he's doing something original other than dating Cassie.

[Lukmendes]

Hopefully he's doing something original other than dating Cassie.

He's dating Cassie? Huh, didn't get that impression.

May that relationship have more screen time than Tim/Cassie if they're bothering, which shouldn't be too difficult, one minute of both of them on the same scene, not even necessarily talking with each other, is more than what Tim/Cassie got .