DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[king of hybrids]

One option is that something will knock out a member of the Light and enable a servant/worshipper of Darkseid that Vandal isn’t aware of to take the empty seat in the Light (Libra’s the obvious on for a FC adaptation, but Alice and Kaizen Gamorra are Darkseid worshippers)

Another is that Vandal has forgotten that the New Gods are still gods, and that pulling their FC possession shtick means Darkseid can move his minions to Earth without it registering to Klarion or any other mystical warnings the Light might have

[TheRay]

First I hear of this, what was that about? Regular Batman cartoon or did it have something else to stand out?

What really sets it apart is that it came about from a line of action figures rather than the other way around. Hence the notion that it was designed to get more eyes on the toy line than anything else.

[AJpyro]

What the show needs is the Secret Six to break up the Light's hold as villains.

[king81992]

Urgh, I hope not, the better of those stories was Final Crisis, and that story is just Morrison's acid trop without the fun part.



If a mind controlling villain is gonna be killed by a hero, it's gonna be Zviad, who's practically villain Maxwell Lord in all but name.

And if a hero is gonna kill someone and be compromised, I don't see it being Diana, much like the "Flash's death" from Crisis they adapted, they didn't kill off Barry in it, because Barry doesn't matter, and Diana is even worse, if a hero is killing someone, it's gonna be an actual character.

And honestly? If they're adapting just the bare minimum of plot points, then we're already in the "Diana kills Maxwell" part, with Brion killing his uncle and him getting compromised, we even have the killing being recorded and shown around, only with the twists that, Diana killed Maxwell to prevent Superman from being Maxwell's puppet anymore, and Geo Force killing his uncle is what made him become Zviad's puppet, and the comics had the public and heroes demonizing Diana for killing Maxwell, while other heroes demonize Brion, but the public openly supports him.



Honestly would be weird to do that now after Black Lightning became the League's leader, and after we put up with two seasons of characters becoming shady assholes.

I guess that would be a way to give actual negative consequences to the bullshit they pulled.

Either way, Darkseid won't just attack Earth for now, both Earth and Apokolips will basically conquer the galaxy, and in the end, it'll be a winner take all battle, something season 3 established, and while it may have been just Olympia's story overrating Vandal's importance, that didn't really feel like a contradiction, and Vandal himself mentions that again in season 4, so basically, if we're getting Final Crisis, it'll take longer for that to happen, and Darkseid won't care if heroes are weakened or not, unless Darkseid manages to get the Anti-Life Equation again, and not just lose it this time, that way he'll break his deal with Vandal again.



I relly don't like how this part sounds so likely... Even though the Light has been getting nerfed per season, this bullshit still sounds likely lol.



I dunno about Conner getting more powers, the Team's members are usually pretty weak intentionally with the nerfs they got, so I don't really see Conner getting more powers.

Maybe we'll get Supergirl here, but eh, she'll probably be a nobody after being introduced, like my boy Static.



I honestly doubt we'll be getting Final Crisis or any sort of battle with Darkseid with anything that isn't a final season, and if what another poster said is true, that YJ's made in a way it can keep going forever, then I doubt Darkseid will be anything beyond a mute, vaguely threatening overlord lol.

If we get Final Crisis or some other Darkseid story like Great Darkness, I doubt it'll last for long, an entire season of just dealing with his stuff, sounds fun, but also sounds pretty unlikely they'd make an entire season be that bleak, maybe at most half of one.

I could see Batman building Brother Eye even if Black Lightning is leading the JL.

[Frontier]

I feel like at this point the show is too in love with the Light and Savage to give them proper comeuppances or permanent harm.

[Alpha]

Reading Historia makes me want a WW prequel show even more, it'd be expensive as hell but I think DC would be able to get it done.

Yeah way too expensive. It's why Wonder Girl was such a great idea, we can have a hero in everyday life and still introduce any element of the Wonderverse in small portions, instead of having to create a fictional nation with an entirely different architectural style from us.

[Lukmendes]

One option is that something will knock out a member of the Light and enable a servant/worshipper of Darkseid that Vandal isn’t aware of to take the empty seat in the Light (Libra’s the obvious on for a FC adaptation, but Alice and Kaizen Gamorra are Darkseid worshippers)

With how most of Light's members are muted, killing and replacing one of 'em wouldn't even be noticed, Queen Bee and Ultra Humanite would be the easiest to replace, with Queen Bee herself being the easiest one, she hasn't talked since season 1 .

But honestly, it's weird how, cooperative, Darkseid is with Vandal, there's no indication he does anything shady to keep track of Vandal's actions or try to take control of Earth, it's only when the anti-life equation became an option that he decided to try to betray Vandal... As far as we know, the only people from Apokolips who went to Earth are Granny, Desaad and Godfrey, and none of them did so in secret...

Another is that Vandal has forgotten that the New Gods are still gods, and that pulling their FC possession shtick means Darkseid can move his minions to Earth without it registering to Klarion or any other mystical warnings the Light might have

Vandal being outsmarted? Perish the thought .

What really sets it apart is that it came about from a line of action figures rather than the other way around. Hence the notion that it was designed to get more eyes on the toy line than anything else.

Yeah I've been told in another page, it's kinda cool, and surprising it got cancelled lol.

What the show needs is the Secret Six to break up the Light's hold as villains.

Well, Light has seven members, Secret Six have, six, what's after 'em? Fatal Five? .

I could see Batman building Brother Eye even if Black Lightning is leading the JL.

I just find it unlikely for it to happen right now 'cause we got two seasons of heroes being shady, season 3 ends with them trying to stop that, Black Lightning asks Batman to be either in or out of the League to not do stuff halfway or behind the scenes, Batman even says Batman Inc will go back to the League in Jefferson's terms, that "it's for the best, for the mission".

Maybe I'm wrong and we'll get Brother Eye in this season or the next, but right now I just feel like it won't happen, plus, while YJ may follow basic plot points, it still does its own thing, like Barbara getting crippled only follows Killing Joke's bare minimum plot point of "Joker was there", and he wasn't even the one who did it, it's at most, indirectly his fault, so we could get something like, the idea of Brother Eye, without even using it.

The Killing Joke one isn't even the only time they did something like this, in the comics, the Invasion crossover is what introduced the metagene, and the Dominators were the ones who found out about it, in YJ? Invasion's bare minimum plot points of "aliens found out about humans having metagene" had the Reach replacing Dominators, Reach itself replaced all the other aliens from the Invasion too, thinking of it like this, the cartoon is adapting just the idea but not the plot exactly, and like I pointed out before, if we're getting Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Countdown and Final Crisis, then we may have already gotten the "Diana kills Maxwell" plot with "Brion kills his uncle", and again, Zviad with his limited mind control is practically Maxwell's own power and role as a villain.

So yeah, short version is, YJ does its own thing, we may get Brother Eye, but maybe we won't, and if we do get Brother Eye, it's possible Batman won't even be the one to make it.

I feel like at this point the show is too in love with the Light and Savage to give them proper comeuppances or permanent harm.

Wouldn't even say "at this point", been like this since season 1, at least they stopped showing that obnoxious end of the episode with "Something something LIGHT" that indicates they managed to achieve their real goal lol.

[TheRay]

Batman: Unlimited was a trilogy of animated films spotlighting a toyline.

It also got a series/some webisodes.

[Frontier]

Wouldn't even say "at this point", been like this since season 1, at least they stopped showing that obnoxious end of the episode with "Something something LIGHT" that indicates they managed to achieve their real goal lol.

It's like Weisman creates one successful villain archetype and he can't get enough of it...

[Lukmendes]

It's like Weisman creates one successful villain archetype and he can't get enough of it...

Definitely, and while a villain being succesful is fine, it gets boring with the way YJ does it, it's just "Haha, my vague plans were a success", and vague plans can work when used sparingly, but used so much to the point it's the only way Light wins, it's really meh.

If we compare with Spectacular Spider-Man, Norman is far, far more interesting than the Light, 'cause while he's a smug asshole who was still clearly feeling overconfident in the end of season 2 despite losing everything, we kinda see what he does as Norman, and he's very active as Green Goblin, and twice he did take a real loss, even if the first one avoided a bigger loss, 'cause the first one had him making Harry think he's Green Goblin, and while that made himself not be arrested, it still meant he couldn't be Green Goblin as long as Harry was away,and the second one, well, he was trying to be the "Big Man of crime" for two seasons, then lost everything in like a week.

Even if Norman didn't take as much damage, he still would be more interesting than the Light just because he's active in the field, so he gets to be a cool character who fights Spidey directly. Making practically invincible characters? That's ridiculously easy, but making interesting characters? That's actually hard.

So yeah, I guess what's going on with Weisman is like, what happened with Frank Miller, only nowhere near as bad, but a still noticeable decline in quality, 'cause Frank Miller had this gritty story telling and then he forgot everything that made it work and now it's gritty for the sake of being gritty, and Weisman, at least by comparing Spectacular with YJ, Weisman had these villains who were really hard to damage, but they were interesting in other ways, and still could be damaged, while YJ's Light is basically invincible, but they aren't invincible in interesting ways.

Stuff like that is why Queen Bee is easily my favorite Light member, her getting directly involved and blackmailing M'gann was creepy and awesome, and her being basically the Orm after season 1 just sucks... At least she didn't leave the Light off-screen like Orm did, so maybe she'll do something, or at least not get unceremoniously killed by Lady Shiva, I hope...

[Frontier]

Definitely, and while a villain being succesful is fine, it gets boring with the way YJ does it, it's just "Haha, my vague plans were a success", and vague plans can work when used sparingly, but used so much to the point it's the only way Light wins, it's really meh.

If we compare with Spectacular Spider-Man, Norman is far, far more interesting than the Light, 'cause while he's a smug asshole who was still clearly feeling overconfident in the end of season 2 despite losing everything, we kinda see what he does as Norman, and he's very active as Green Goblin, and twice he did take a real loss, even if the first one avoided a bigger loss, 'cause the first one had him making Harry think he's Green Goblin, and while that made himself not be arrested, it still meant he couldn't be Green Goblin as long as Harry was away,and the second one, well, he was trying to be the "Big Man of crime" for two seasons, then lost everything in like a week.

Even if Norman didn't take as much damage, he still would be more interesting than the Light just because he's active in the field, so he gets to be a cool character who fights Spidey directly. Making practically invincible characters? That's ridiculously easy, but making interesting characters? That's actually hard.

So yeah, I guess what's going on with Weisman is like, what happened with Frank Miller, only nowhere near as bad, but a still noticeable decline in quality, 'cause Frank Miller had this gritty story telling and then he forgot everything that made it work and now it's gritty for the sake of being gritty, and Weisman, at least by comparing Spectacular with YJ, Weisman had these villains who were really hard to damage, but they were interesting in other ways, and still could be damaged, while YJ's Light is basically invincible, but they aren't invincible in interesting ways.

Stuff like that is why Queen Bee is easily my favorite Light member, her getting directly involved and blackmailing M'gann was creepy and awesome, and her being basically the Orm after season 1 just sucks... At least she didn't leave the Light off-screen like Orm did, so maybe she'll do something, or at least not get unceremoniously killed by Lady Shiva, I hope...

At least you always have the satisfaction of knowing Spidey got to beat up/defeat the Goblin, which is better than nothing, and better than Vandal Savage always sitting back and masterminding...

Queen Bee is one of my least favorite Light members by virtue of being the worst personally and facing virtually no comeuppance for it.

[Lukmendes]

At least you always have the satisfaction of knowing Spidey got to beat up/defeat the Goblin, which is better than nothing, and better than Vandal Savage always sitting back and masterminding...

Yeah that's my point, Spidey actually gets to defeat Norman, so he's less frustrating, and even if that weren't the case, just Norman being around in the field and fighting and having a personality gives him bonus points too.

I think what really benefits Spectacular is the villains being separated, 'cause it means that while Spidey always has to defeat someone else after dealing with a threat (In season 2 he has to go from dealing with Venom, to Otto, to Norman), so while there's always a villain around, they get defeated, even if it looks like they can still return, and YJ, by having everything be so unified, and the villains mostly being part of the Light, doesn't have this "I defeated x villain, but y villain is still around", so the Light never really gets defeated even without the "something something LIGHT" we used to get in season 1.

Queen Bee is one of my least favorite Light members by virtue of being the worst personally and facing virtually no comeuppance for it.

Yeah, I can understand the frustration she can give by getting away with it, but think of it like this, she's being punished by being the new Orm .

[Frontier]

Yeah that's my point, Spidey actually gets to defeat Norman, so he's less frustrating, and even if that weren't the case, just Norman being around in the field and fighting and having a personality gives him bonus points too.

I think what really benefits Spectacular is the villains being separated, 'cause it means that while Spidey always has to defeat someone else after dealing with a threat (In season 2 he has to go from dealing with Venom, to Otto, to Norman), so while there's always a villain around, they get defeated, even if it looks like they can still return, and YJ, by having everything be so unified, and the villains mostly being part of the Light, doesn't have this "I defeated x villain, but y villain is still around", so the Light never really gets defeated even without the "something something LIGHT" we used to get in season 1.

Yeah, like, villains get out of prison or escape and the "top crime boss in New York" is always shifting but Spidey inevitably always beats them in the end either in a fight or by taking down their operations.

So, like, Spidey makes an actual significant difference whereas the heroes in YJ can only seem to make a marginal difference in the grand scheme of things.

I also feel like Spec with it's core, lead, character and supporting cast had a better balance and focus than YJ which shifts around so much and has too many characters that they periodically focus on to really capture that.

Yeah, I can understand the frustration she can give by getting away with it, but think of it like this, she's being punished by being the new Orm .

Fair, although at least she got a focus episode and significant screentime which is more than Orm can say .

[king81992]

At least you always have the satisfaction of knowing Spidey got to beat up/defeat the Goblin, which is better than nothing, and better than Vandal Savage always sitting back and masterminding...

Queen Bee is one of my least favorite Light members by virtue of being the worst personally and facing virtually no comeuppance for it.

Considering how Weissman never forgets a plot point, I feel like Queen Bee will eventually get what's coming to her from Gar, especially if the depression arc ends with him becoming a darker character.

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, like, villains get out of prison or escape and the "top crime boss in New York" is always shifting but Spidey inevitably always beats them in the end either in a fight or by taking down their operations.

So, like, Spidey makes an actual significant difference whereas the heroes in YJ can only seem to make a marginal difference in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, at best, YJ has the heroes only stopping villains' getting what's more or less a win button, but otherwise, Light is hardly ever scratched.

I also feel like Spec with it's core, lead, character and supporting cast had a better balance and focus than YJ which shifts around so much and has too many characters that they periodically focus on to really capture that.

Spectacular definitely benefits from "Less is more", 'cause by having access only to Spidey's world, they had to work with what they had instead of using other stuff from Marvel, and having less characters made their development be more focused, meanwhile, YJ has access to practically the entire DC universe, and they try to use a lot of it, and that makes the cartoon spread itself too thin.

YJ's Season 1 probably had the best balance with this, 'cause while there were plenty of random elements from the comics (And some of that bullshit is what was used to make Starro-tech), it was focused on less characters and didn't go too far with those elements, with season 2 and 3, it felt like they wanted to have too much, and at its worst, it's like eating a pizza of every delicious flavor, but then you take a bite and taste basically nothing.

Stuff like that is probably why season 4 slowed down so much, by picking specific stuff per arc and focusing on fewer characters in those arcs, but even that has its own issues too, 'cause while M'gann's and Artemis' arcs are fine, Zatanna's arc shows how decompression done wrong can be, with a bunch of episodes where basically nothing happens, and other issues like the often parroted problem of Zatanna not doing much in her own arc, which's pretty sad 'cause, M'gann and Artemis are basically the most developed characters in this cartoon, so they get arcs that focuses on them plenty (Even if other characters also get plenty of development), while the blatantly not as favored Zatanna is sidelined.

Fair, although at least she got a focus episode and significant screentime which is more than Orm can say .

Yes, but most of her relevant stuff is in season 1, if you pay attention to her in season 2 and 3, she's basically Orm, with stuff like, them doing horrible things that are not shown, only alluded to, not doing anything in meetings, being mostly irrelevant to the plot and only the location they're from being what matters (Bialya for being where the kidnapped teens are kept before being given to the Reach, and also where they managed to save Jamie and Green Beetle from the Reach's control, and Atlantis for being where Starro is at).

So yeah, she's practically season 1 Orm now, and maybe eventually will become season 2 Orm (Meaning, not there), or even season 3 Orm (Meaning, dead), but I'd say her current situation is punishment enough .

Considering how Weissman never forgets a plot point, I feel like Queen Bee will eventually get what's coming to her from Gar, especially if the depression arc ends with him becoming a darker character.

Good point, he is pushing everyone away like anti-heroes may do, and while this season has the blatant theme of mental health, it's possible he'll be M'gann's opposite, because M'gann seems like she's trying to recover, accept help and move on, while Garfield so far is pushing everyone away trying to help, to the point he essentially told Perdita to fuck off when she was trying to help, so it's possible he'll take a darker path yeah.

I do wonder if he'll focus on Queen Bee though, we had 4 episodes in Mars and despite his blatant PTSD, previous traumas like his mother killing herself because of Queen Bee, and Doom Patrol doing their usual thing and dying, those aren't talked about or even alluded to, the only trauma it shows is Brion killing his uncle, and now Conner's death on top of that.

With how much undeniable focus he's been getting in season 4, it's possible that he'll be a constant B-plot in every arc, and maybe he'll start to do more than just feeling sorry for himself, time will tell.