DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[Vordan]

They have a surprisingly lot in common.

Zod is too much of a supremacist and OP for the Light to trust him. I don't think he'd ever lower himself to Savage's level.

There's a lot we don't know about Jason. I'm kind of curious if they had Bad Samaritan talking into Mary or Kara's ears to help sell them on this.

It would be them “trusting” Zod like they “trust” Darkseid. They know he’s going to betray him at some point but they work with him to beat Darkseid first. Basically the Light does to Darkseid what he was trying to do to them by making a deal with Lor. There needs to be some tension in the Light, why the hell is everyone on board for the Caveman’s master plan? You telling me Lex doesn’t want to be on top? Pffft I don’t buy that.

Mary was an addict and Granny preyed on that. Kara like I said probably suffered from Zone sickness given she was likely on her own, making her easy prey for Granny’s brainwashing.

[Frontier]

It would be them “trusting” Zod like they “trust” Darkseid. They know he’s going to betray him at some point but they work with him to beat Darkseid first. Basically the Light does to Darkseid what he was trying to do to them by making a deal with Lor. There needs to be some tension in the Light, why the hell is everyone on board for the Caveman’s master plan? You telling me Lex doesn’t want to be on top? Pffft I don’t buy that.

I agree on the Light needing tension instead of being these uber methodical and successful villains who always work well together but I really think Zod is too powerful and too committed to want to deal with them unless they literally forced him to comply.

Mary was an addict and Granny preyed on that. Kara like I said probably suffered from Zone sickness given she was likely on her own, making her easy prey for Granny’s brainwashing.

Man, I hate how this show depicted Mary. But I guess it makes sense if they were planning to do Black Mary from the start. Even her costume is better.

[phonogram12]

They have a surprisingly lot in common.

I mean, so do Batman and Elektra and Peter Parker and Jessica Drew, but that doesn't mean either of those pairs necessarily have chemistry, either. *shrugs*

[TheCasualReader]

It would be them “trusting” Zod like they “trust” Darkseid. They know he’s going to betray him at some point but they work with him to beat Darkseid first. Basically the Light does to Darkseid what he was trying to do to them by making a deal with Lor. There needs to be some tension in the Light, why the hell is everyone on board for the Caveman’s master plan? You telling me Lex doesn’t want to be on top? Pffft I don’t buy that.

Mary was an addict and Granny preyed on that. Kara like I said probably suffered from Zone sickness given she was likely on her own, making her easy prey for Granny’s brainwashing.

Mary wasn't an magic addict: she was power hungry.

Basically, she liked being Sergeant Shazam - powerful, beautiful etc. - so much that her own identity as Mary felt inferior by comparison, so she stopped turning back into Mary until her family staged an intervention. She became Zatanna's apprentice, so she could find a way to feel like a powerful hero as Mary without turning into her Shazam self. Her using magic wasn't portrayed as the problem (which was why nobody had a problem with her still using her Shazam magic) Granny Goodness' speech (and what Zatanna says) also basically confirms it was about power, not addiction.

I'm not a Mary Marvel fan and I know really nothing about her, except that artists and writers have really creeped on her in the past. I don't have an opinion on the show's choice of characterization for her, but it did make her unsympathetic character (which doesn't necessarily translate to an uncompelling character) because she kept draining her friends just to try to feel powerful against foes out of league, even though it was immensely painful for them and in one case, heavily implied to be deadly if she hadn't been stopped. Since she never showed any remorse, even a little, so I didn't feel bad for her at all when she ran off to cry like a spoiled brat after nearly killing her own teammates while they calling for her to stop.

I can't tell if I was suppose to feel sympathy because the writing got really terrible - I still don't know what the writers wanted me to feel about Zatanna.

My only concern is that season five, if there is one, will have Mary pull the old "You failed me!" and the show entertains that nonsense instead of having Zatanna continue to be aware that Mary's problem is Mary and she's the one who needs to see that.

[Frontier]

I mean, so do Batman and Elektra and Peter Parker and Jessica Drew, but that doesn't mean either of those pairs necessarily have chemistry, either. *shrugs*

I don't think those pairings are actually that similar...

Mary wasn't an magic addict: she was power hungry.

Basically, she liked being Sergeant Shazam - powerful, beautiful etc. - so much that her own identity as Mary felt inferior by comparison, so she stopped turning back into Mary until her family staged an intervention. She became Zatanna's apprentice, so she could find a way to feel like a powerful hero as Mary without turning into her Shazam self. Her using magic wasn't portrayed as the problem (which was why nobody had a problem with her still using her Shazam magic) Granny Goodness' speech (and what Zatanna says) also basically confirms it was about power, not addiction.

I'm not a Mary Marvel fan and I know really nothing about her, except that artists and writers have really creeped on her in the past. I don't have an opinion on the show's choice of characterization for her, but it did make her unsympathetic character (which doesn't necessarily translate to an uncompelling character) because she kept draining her friends just to try to feel powerful against foes out of league, even though it was immensely painful for them and in one case, heavily implied to be deadly if she hadn't been stopped. Since she never showed any remorse, even a little, so I didn't feel bad for her at all when she ran off to cry like a spoiled brat after nearly killing her own teammates while they calling for her to stop.

I can't tell if I was suppose to feel sympathy because the writing got really terrible - I still don't know what the writers wanted me to feel about Zatanna.

My only concern is that season five, if there is one, will have Mary pull the old "You failed me!" and the show entertains that nonsense instead of having Zatanna continue to be aware that Mary's problem is Mary and she's the one who needs to see that.

I really don't like the shows' take on Mary.

Also it's funny that you bring up artists creeping on Mary when that was one of the main things behind her villain turn and the existence of Black Mary.

[Primal Slayer]

According to Greg, YJs "ratings" are are very good and its the most watched animated series on a streaming service.

If we get a S5 we better get some Wonder focus!

[Frontier]

According to Greg, YJs "ratings" are are very good and its the most watched animated series on a streaming service.

If we get a S5 we better get some Wonder focus!

We got the Wonder Women all together for one scene but Wonder Woman doesn't even get any dialogue.

[Gaius]

We got the Wonder Women all together for one scene but Wonder Woman doesn't even get any dialogue.

[Frontier]

This is adorable .

[Lukmendes]

!!!Spoilers for episode 26!!
spoilers:

The Markovia episode proved completely irrelevant to the story. It was inserted into the last arc and disrupted its flow for no reason whatsoever. That was almost an entire episode that could have been used for the story and the other characters actually relevant to the story. It's like how the space arc has an episode dedicated to a character from a show that ended nearly a decade ago. Razer was my favorite character and it was a really nice tribute and all, but it becomes part of the show's bad pattern when it speedruns through Rocket's character development. They focused on introducing and providing a satisfying conclusion to Razer's story - a character who doesn't even appear again - while neglected Rocket's story, even though she's the actual show character and the one who's getting marketed on the poster

end of spoilers

Yeah, despite you saying it doesn't spoil much, I didn't really know about Razor, or Rocket not having much development.

And man, that Razor **** was ridiculous, it's the worst "YJ expects you to know this" by far lol.

Usually when YJ does a "YJ expects you to know this", it's among the lines of it expecting you to have an idea of why specific names are important and whatnot, but with Razor, they expect you to know who the **** he is and and his damn story, I never watched the Green Lantern cartoon, and it felt like I was suddenly thrown into the middle of a character's development, it was really dumb, and when he left New Genesis to go back to his home planet I guess, I kinda hoped he'd die on his way there for suddenly wasting my time.

There's a lot we don't know about Jason.

We don't know anything about Jason besides him dying once, and we don't even know if it was by a crowbar + bomb combo.

According to Greg, YJs "ratings" are are very good and its the most watched animated series on a streaming service.

If we get a S5 we better get some Wonder focus!

Sure, they'll get a line or two while Garfield gets way more screen time than he should again .

[Lukmendes]

Anyways, I caught up to the last episodes.

I stopped in Kaldur'ahm's arc before because the first episode was really boring, but I did find the others more interesting, the whole mystery over what's going on with Arion was cool enough, and I didn't expect he would be Orm cloned into him.

It is kinda annoying how much that arc requires you to have watched "Zatanna's" arc to understand what's going on, Arion being Vandal's son? Revealed in the previous arc, that lava underwater tornado? Caused by Child in the previous arc, Atlantis having sunk long ago for them to search for the original crown? Revealed in the previous arc, that flute Arion played that was used to clone him? Revealed in the previous arc, the original crown being an item that was given to Arion by the Lords of Order and that's why they killed Orm's clone? Revealed in the previous arc.

I usually do tend to like stuff being revealed in other arcs, can make a setting feel like a world, but the problem is, "Zatanna's" arc is by far the worst thing YJ has produced, it's really boring and I don't like being reminded of it, not to mention it makes it really obvious that the arc was nothing but setups for later stuff, the Atlantis nonsense, Mary's hack character development, and the characters even wondering if Conner is alive, the reveal that Klarion can even find the Phantom Zone, all starts there, in the worst arc, urgh...

Kaldur'ahm's character development in "his" arc though, what a fucking joke, it was just other characters telling him "Kaldur, you're overworking, take a break", which he refuses to, and then in the last episode, he suddenly decides to take a break, do we see his thoughts in this? Does he screw up and feels like he has to get his head together?

Rocket's was better in that regard, at the very least her experience with Orion made her think about what it must be like to have impulses you can't control, and that they have to be taken care of, that is cool stuff and something her son needs when being taken care of, too bad that's all she gets though, she's mostly sidelined and only gets any real focus in the first and last episodes, it's better than Kaldur'ahm's but that's like saying "It's better than nothing", and Razor **** was stupid, and Tomar-Re's death was also really dumb, he's smart enough to block Lor-Zod's heat vision, but not smart enough to dodge them once he realizes he can't keep the shield and that tube up at the same time lol.

It's also really awkward that Rocket gets Fourth World, Superman and Green Lantern stuff in her arc, not her own Milestone stuff, and while I don't know what her stories in there are like, it's still weird she gets involved in those stuff and only those stuff when M'gann, Artemis, Zatanna and Kaldur'ahm dealth with stuff from their world (Literally in M'gann's case).

Dick got no arc, he was just investigating Conner's circumstances, by the point we get to his arc it's a Team mission.

It's really dumb to watch all episodes and see that while it looked like everyone in the intro would get any character development, the only ones who got anything at all were M'gann, Artemis, and to a certain extent, Rocket, so basically, if you're in that intro, and you're a male character or Zatanna, you're screwed, and I'm being nice by including Rocket at all here lol.

It's specially dumb that M'gann and Artemis got more development than the rest, because they've been getting more development than the rest since forever, in season 1, it was more evenly divided between the Team, with Wally and Kaldur'ahm having it worse than anyone, in season 2, M'gann got most development and Artemis got some moments with Wally, in season 3, they get more development than the rest again, they're the most privileged characters in this damn cartoon when it comes to character focus, and season 4 changes things up by making it be the exact same thing, great...

It's also really odd that for a season all about mental health, they completely skipped over Garfield's recovery, and Conner, despite being mentally fucked by the Phantom Zone for moths, and manipulated by Zod for probably even more months, recovers immediately after M'gann talks with him, because apparently both of these experiences are **** you don't get any sort of trauma.

I chuckled at Garfield listing the number of people he who died around him though, almost every character he lists died offscreen, and the ones who died onscreen, he had no relationship with Conner before season 4, I don't think he actually talked with Wally back in season 2, but the "Souvenir!" habit implies they were friendly, and the last one is his mother, who, did die onscreen, but you have to read a fucking tie-in comic to see it.

I also couldn't care about Conner's character after a while, he became just a puppet for the most part after he met Zod, mostly in a black and white way even when he was hesitating, it's also silly how he went from "I must kill Superman" to "I must not kill Superman", nothing about that felt rewarding for me, Zod himself was cool though.

Ursa became Emerald Empress and that basically meant "She's a better Green Beetle", which's, not a compliment, Green Beetle sucked, and she's only a bit better, despite being what's essentially a villainous, nerfed Sodam Yat, all she does with the Eye of Ekron is shoot some beams with it while flying, and twice using heat vision, boring as ****... Maybe next season can show more though, also, did the cartoon imply that she started Daxamites? 'Cause she goes to Daxam, and it's weird that despite Lor-Zod being Kryptonian, he's identified as a Daxamite.

Malefaak being implied to start the Durlan race is stupid and another case of Weisman liking to connect previously unconnected stuff too much, on the bright side, it wasn't Vandal that started the Durlan race, at least I hope...

Light winning again made me groan, the seasons that had them the least had villains losing the most, even at the end of Kaldur'ahm's arc, Vandal lost very clearly and that mostly hairless ape was pissed about it, that was cathartic, and them winning again at the end ruined it... Weisman just can't help himself.

So yeah, this had a lot of issues, and the decompressed style didn't actually help the character development that much considering only really Zod, M'gann, Artemis, Garfield, Kenny-Girl, Brion and that gauntlet chick get any real development, Kenny Girl's felt like an awkward apology because she was Muslim bait last season, and I have my doubts that Muslim countries will be happy with a non-binary bisexual woman, Brion and that gauntlet chick get something but they're not relevant.

At times the decompressred style made stuff repetitive, Zatanna's arc had it worse because it's a two or three episode arc spread across five episodes, it felt like reading a Bendis comic with better dialogue, and aside from that, episodes 24 and 25 show how repetitive stuff is, because episode 24 end with the heroes losing very badly, and Zod being in a very difficult position to lose, and then episode 25 ends with the heroes losing very badly, and Zod being in a very difficult position to lose, that made me so glad I waited to binge watch because that was stupid.

Where the decompressed stuff worked best was with character moments, where they take a few minutes to talk with each other or think about their lives, but not a lot of characters benefit from that, Garfield had it better than everyone with and even his damn recovery wasn't shown at all.

Mary sucked, don't really have much else to say besides that, even if I cared about the idea of her development, the cartoon pretends we saw her past, and we didn't, and I don't care about pretend development.

Lor-Zod is a pretty cool villain, it was actually fun to see a villain struggle, not know everything, have to improvise, fail a bunch of times until he manages to succeed, he's my favorite YJ villain, and I was surprised spoilers:

he was that corpse that was left after the bomb exploded, I thought he would get away with it, Metron had to pull some villain plan to succeed at that though lol.

end of spoilers

Because of conversations I had in Superman forums about how the last scene has to get a follow up, spoilers:

and how this season has higher focus on Superman related stuff and got the most focus on Apokolips than previous seasons, and how most Kryptonians who survived Krypton showed up here, I correctly deduced after a while that they would adapt post-crisis Kara being a Fury, so I kinda spoiled myself, and honestly don't really care about that development, because I don't trust YJ to follow up on it, it could always be another Jason situation where that **** is shown and implied to affect the plot later on, and then it doesn't, same for Brion. Needless to say I think the same about Mary.

end of spoilers

Speaking of spoilers:

Mary, wasn't she in Conner's marriage? The scene in Apokolips happens a few hours later, so how did that happen?

end of spoilers

Also the fucking last episode having Dinah suggest to make a "sanctuary" for mental health **** made me irk, 'cause it immediately made me think of Heroes in Crisis, couldn't they have picked a better word? For a season that is all about mental health, Weisman definitely wasn't thinking about people who got PTSD from HiC's garbage writing .

Anyways, I'm not sure how to judge this, I think it has higher highs than season 3 (Lor-Zod, his incredibly sexy voice, his adventures with his villain success feeling like he put actual effort, Zod, the first two arcs, Superman's involvement after a while, the decompressed character moments that actually benefit from the decompression), but it also has "Zatanna's" arc, just that alone makes this season not comparable with either season 1 or even 2, 'cause again, worst thing in YJ for me, think I need more time to digest all of this, but maybe it's not a straightup downgrade from season 3 like "Zatanna's" arc made me think it'd become.

[Digifiend]

The spoiler tag here is just spoil, not spoiler. You need to fix that.

Changing the subject. Diggle is in the Superman & Lois season finale.
https://www.cbr.com/superman-and-loi...-diggle-cw-dc/

[Primal Slayer]

Very much agree Lukmendes.

They need to go back to basics like s1/2 if we get a s5.

I noticed that Tim/Stephanie appear to be dating. Gotta love all the off screen storylines that are much more interesting.

[PCN24454]

Very much agree Lukmendes.

They need to go back to basics like s1/2 if we get a s5.

I noticed that Tim/Stephanie appear to be dating. Gotta love all the off screen storylines that are much more interesting.

Nah, go all on the Universe aspect of the series. It’s literally my favorite part. Stuff actually happens.

[Rac7d*]

Zod wanting to keep superboy as a pet for so long was his down fall and it was annoying, why are you so attached to him.

I expect a lot more milestone characters doing somthing next season. If their okay with making Zod and his son black and a tyrants.