How To Make a Peter Clone/Gwen Clone Relationship Successful

[dddaaavvv]

For those who consider Gwen to be Peter's true love and would like to see at least some form of their relationship played out, perhaps there is an alternative.

Gwen was originally written to be Peter's soul mate so it is possible that whatever cosmic forces brought them together would also apply to their clones. Gwen and Peter's relationship was inevitable and the only thing that could end it was death.

Their clones are basically copies of Gwen and Peter, so the same attraction would exist between their clones. The same cosmic forces that predisposed them to be together would eventually bring the the clones together as well. The difference being, no Green Goblin to interfere with this inevitability. They would meet, fall in love, go through similar dynamics and eventually live out a similar life that Gwen and Peter were denied. It may not be identical but it would be inevitable and similar.

The relationship of either clone, Ben Reilly, or Kaine, with Gwen's clone would not be identical, but similar enough so that they would eventually get married and live out a similar life to what Gwen and Peter's was supposed to be.

They would start off as far apart as Gwen and Peter were originally, but they would be drawn together and their lives would converge in a similar way to the way Gwen's and Peter's were.

What would their story be like? How would it be the same? How would it be different?

More importantly, how could it be made into a successful comic? What would their life be like once it went beyond the point of Gwen's death? How could that part of the story be made to interest and intrigue readers?

This thread was specifically designed to address HOW to make this relationship work, not IF it would work. It was designed to discuss what WOULD happen, not if it SHOULD happen. It was designed to discuss ways to MAKE it work, not reasons why it WOULDN'T work. It was designed to work TOWARDS an objective, not work AGAINST this objective. It was designed to be CONSTRUCTIVE, not DESTRUCTIVE.

There are plenty of other threads to go to to tear down ideas, this was designed to CREATE ideas. Please respect the premise and objective of this thread and post only comments that are CONTRIBUTORY to this.

For those who accept, honor and respect the premise and objectives of this thread I will gratefully and willingly engage in CONSTRUCTIVE discussion. For those who don't, I personally will simply ignore. However, if other members on the thread choose to engage you, that is there prerogative, but I will not.

I want to respect the reason for the reboot of this forum and want keep this thread civilized and amicable. I welcome like-minded people to this thread with open arms. LET'S TALK! :0


Ben Reilly would initially be the most similar to Peter, so he would be an easier clone to work with, but of course he would have to be resurrected in some way (obviously not an impossibility in the Marvel universe!)

Kaine is already available, but would have to undergo a transition to a more Peter-like persona, but with Gwen's love and the cosmic forces to influence him, he would eventually go through this transition.

Who would YOU want to be clone Gwen's mate? Why?

[dddaaavvv]

Let's call this the

"Kaine/Gwen Clone Subthread"

Since Kaine has settled in Houston, this could be where this relationship starts. They meet and since they still have the implanted memories of Peter and Gwen, they would immediately recognize each other. Gwen's clone was drawn to Houston by those cosmic forces and searching for whatever reason she brought her here and she eventually crosses paths with Kaine. They both are unsure of what to do but since they are both clones and have this bond they talk and become acquaintances.

How would things transpire from here?

[dddaaavvv]

"Ben Reilly/Gwen Clone Subthread"

Jackal manages to resurrect Ben Reilly, and he now wants to start life anew in another city. Maybe Chicago, San Francisco or Los Angeles or another city with buildings for web slinging! Meets Gwen's clone in a similar fashion to how Kaine would meet her, and things progress from there. What city should he settle in? How would they meet?

[Sardorim]

No, I wouldn't want to see this. Just because they're clones doesn't mean they cannot also be their own person.

[dddaaavvv]

No, I wouldn't want to see this. Just because they're clones doesn't mean they cannot also be their own person.

That's fine. This thread is for people who DO want to see this.

[TheWonderKid]

I think the most interesting thing they could do with this (and many will disagree), is have a Peter and a Gwen clone living happliy together in some small town. They have regular jobs where they work at a lab, they have kids, they have regular people worries. The clone Peter has no powers, having gotten rid of them years ago. They are also both aware that they are clones, one of the projects of Miles Warren that managed to escape during any of the Spider-Man dust ups that they have had.

When original Peter meets them, it all comes crashing in as to what might have been if he had made different choices. Panals of Peter playing with kids that have his face but Gwen's eyes for example. I think they would be an interesting method of exploring what it is Peter is looking for in life, as oftentimes it seems like he is simply just going from one encounter to the next.

Enter the Jackel. He has tracked down his wayard clones and it is up to Peter to rescue them and keep them safe. I also think it would be interesting to have the Jackel clone some of Peter's enemies, including the Green Goblin and toss Gwen off the bridge again, this time of course Peter catches her. Having to protect clone Peter might be interesting in that he would see just how much confidence and how much of his own self-image is wrapped up in being Spider-Man. Lots of times you see Peter thinking of Spider-Man and himself as two seperate entities, this would be another method to help bridge that gap.

Just some thoughts on it, I have no doubt there are people that would detest this and will probably tear it apart. But I was trying to go with the spirit of the thread

[dddaaavvv]

I think the most interesting thing they could do with this (and many will disagree), is have a Peter and a Gwen clone living happliy together in some small town. They have regular jobs where they work at a lab, they have kids, they have regular people worries. The clone Peter has no powers, having gotten rid of them years ago. They are also both aware that they are clones, one of the projects of Miles Warren that managed to escape during any of the Spider-Man dust ups that they have had.

When original Peter meets them, it all comes crashing in as to what might have been if he had made different choices. Panals of Peter playing with kids that have his face but Gwen's eyes for example. I think they would be an interesting method of exploring what it is Peter is looking for in life, as oftentimes it seems like he is simply just going from one encounter to the next.

Enter the Jackel. He has tracked down his wayard clones and it is up to Peter to rescue them and keep them safe. I also think it would be interesting to have the Jackel clone some of Peter's enemies, including the Green Goblin and toss Gwen off the bridge again, this time of course Peter catches her. Having to protect clone Peter might be interesting in that he would see just how much confidence and how much of his own self-image is wrapped up in being Spider-Man. Lots of times you see Peter thinking of Spider-Man and himself as two seperate entities, this would be another method to help bridge that gap.

Just some thoughts on it, I have no doubt there are people that would detest this and will probably tear it apart. But I was trying to go with the spirit of the thread

Wonderkid, please read my next post as I basically had to make so many additions and changes to my reply that it bears a new post!

Also thank you for going with the spirit of the thread. Your respect is greatly appreciated.

[dddaaavvv]

To WonderKid,

Your idea is an original way to go and a good story in it's own right, however I was thinking they would live out the life that Peter and Gwen were denied to kind of satisfy the "what if" factor. I don't think Peter and Gwen would have settled down in a small town because he still had his vow to Uncle Ben to fulfill, and the same cosmic forces that brought them together IMHO would want Ben or Kaine to continue along those same lines. At least that was the premise that I was trying to express.

Part of the premise was ALSO to make a successful comic out this situation. I get the impression from your story that it is intended to be a story WITHIN the Spider-man franchise rather than being the basis for a standalone comic.

I hadn't thought about the Jackel, or any of Spidey's old enemies. My thought was new comic, new city, new enemies, new adventures. Sure, there could always be crossover stories, but I kind of imagined it as a standalone comic. Kind of like the way they tried to do with Kaine.

I don't know why the "Scarlet Spider" comic, didn't hold an audience. My guess is because he was TOO different from Spider-man. Maybe the readers were expecting Kaine to be a more sympathetic character, different but similar to Peter. When it ended up he wasn't, and the readers didn't find him relatable, maybe they lost interest.

Although Ben Reilly still has a strong following even today, my guess is he didn't work as a replacement for Peter, because Spider-man fans were really Spider-man/Peter fans. It wasn't just about the superhero adventures, it was also about following Peter's personal life. Had they left Peter as Spider-man and given Ben his own comic, I believe it would have worked. This way Marvel would have had TWO everyman superheroes that readers could relate to.

This premise is kind of a gut feeling of mine. My belief is that if you make EITHER clone relatable to the readers, there MIGHT be enough of a following to make the comic successful. Bringing in the Gwen clone would seal the deal. Readers would be drawn in the same way they were to Spider-man back in the 60's and that's what made the comic so popular. It would allow them to experience a similar dynamic to Gwen and Peter, just with different but similarly relatable characters. Instead of starting from scratch and developing new characters, readers could jump in to somewhat of a preexisting situation. The clone's characters would already have a foundation, so there wouldn't be that boring development phase. Kind of like how sequels in movies (if done right) are pretty much assured an audience.

Hell, just thinking about it, it might be possible to make this work with BOTH Ben AND Kaine! Peter would be the East Coast Webslinger, Spider-man, Ben could be the West Coast Webslinger, with some new name, and Kaine could be the South Coast Webslinger, Scarlet Spider!

IF this route were taken (and that's a BIG IF!) I doubt having TWO Gwen clones would work!. My gut feeling says Kaine would be the best candidate for the Gwen Clone and maybe Jill Stacy would work for Ben. But I'm getting WAY ahead of myself!

Having said all this, I do agree with you, WonderKid, that the clone couple(s) would need a personal life, but superpowers would have to be involved in order to make a successful standalone comic viable.

[dddaaavvv]

"Ben Reilly/Gwen Clone Subthread"

New Alter Ego Name For Ben

Coming back from the tangent I went off on, back to Ben and Gwen!!

Let's say he were to settle down in L.A. Since the name Scarlet Spider has been adopted by Kaine, Ben would need to find a new name. I've come to realize that this isn't so easy. Spider-clone wouldn't work even though it's accurate! Black widow Is both feminine and taken. Tarantula is taken and tarantulas don't spin webs. Brown Recluse has a certain dramatic flair but sounds more like a guy hanging out in a basement! There really aren't many dramatic spider names. Garden spider doesn't work, or house spider or any other similar names. "Scarlet" sounds more dramatic than "red" so that's why Marvel went with that. Red is at one end of the color spectrum, and blue is at the other, but blue isn't dramatic. Indigo could work and arachnid is another name for spider.

So Perhaps "Indigo Spider" for Ben. It's kind of an antithesis for Scarlet Spider, and Kaine and Ben have similar but different roles in different locations, so it would be appropriate, but for originality maybe the Indigo Arachnid. A little long but has that dramatic flare.

These are the best I could come up with but I would DEFINITELY be interested in other options! Anybody have any better ideas? If not which one works better for you? Indigo Spider, or Indigo Arachnid?

[dddaaavvv]

Noticing that there is a Debra Whitman Appreciation Page, I got to thinking about another love interest for Ben or Kaine. IMHO a Gwen clone would have the spirit to handle someone like Kaine. But what about poor Ben? As I said Jill Stacy could fill this role, but another possibility would be Debra Whitman. Kaine would be too much for her, but I can see Ben being a good match for her. His temperament is more like Peter's, gentler, more compassionate, so there is another way to go. Kaine gets Clone Gwen and Ben gets Debra Whitman.

[Kevinroc]

Marvel doesn't want Peter (or a clone of Peter) to have a "successful" relationship.

[Sardorim]

That's fine. This thread is for people who DO want to see this.

Point is this. It wouldn't be plausible as Kaine isn't like Peter at all and I don't see him ever getting with any Gwen because he doesn't want to be a mere clone of Peter, heck he doesn't even want to be a Hero atm. All he wants to be is Kaine and Kaine has no romantic feelings for Gwen because he never actually "met" the real Gwen. It's merely false memories, as they aren't his own - they're Peter's, implanted into him that gave him any attachment to Gwen. Same goes for Ben Reily as well.

Besides, despite the memories put into a Clone of Gwen's head the fact of the matter is that she's not the Gwen people know and when she becomes self aware that she's a clone she'll either kill herself or become her own person.

It would be outright torture to force Clones to be mere Clones instead of letting them be their own people, find their own love and make their own decisions as individuals.

That and it would be BEYOND forced and OOC for Kaine to be subjected to this. Heck, it would be FORCED for any clone to end up as such.

Gwen is dead, she isn't coming back. A Clone of Gwen isn't the same Gwen fans fell in love with and any clones of Gwen shouldn't be expected to be their dead Gwen or to replace Gwen.

[Doctor Cosmic]

So...Marvel undoes the death of a character who's death ended up having more of an impact on Spider-Man than her life?

Why not bring Uncle Ben back next?

[dddaaavvv]

Point is this. It wouldn't be plausible as Kaine isn't like Peter at all and I don't see him ever getting with any Gwen because he doesn't want to be a mere clone of Peter, heck he doesn't even want to be a Hero atm. All he wants to be is Kaine and Kaine has no romantic feelings for Gwen because he never actually "met" the real Gwen. It's merely false memories, as they aren't his own - they're Peter's, implanted into him that gave him any attachment to Gwen. Same goes for Ben Reily as well.

Besides, despite the memories put into a Clone of Gwen's head the fact of the matter is that she's not the Gwen people know and when she becomes self aware that she's a clone she'll either kill herself or become her own person.

It would be outright torture to force Clones to be mere Clones instead of letting them be their own people, find their own love and make their own decisions as individuals.

That and it would be BEYOND forced and OOC for Kaine to be subjected to this. Heck, it would be FORCED for any clone to end up as such.

Gwen is dead, she isn't coming back. A Clone of Gwen isn't the same Gwen fans fell in love with and any clones of Gwen shouldn't be expected to be their dead Gwen or to replace Gwen.

Again, the premise is "How To Make a Peter Clone/Gwen Clone Relationship Successful" not why it can't be successful. I specifically worded the title of this thread and laid down the foundation of this thread to avoid these exact debates. I want this thread to be constructive NOT adversarial. I would appreciate if you would respect these objectives. Thank you.

[dddaaavvv]

So...Marvel undoes the death of a character who's death ended up having more of an impact on Spider-Man than her life?

Why not bring Uncle Ben back next?

Clearly you are on the wrong thread. You want the "Anyone Want Gwen Back?" thread.