Cyborg (a.k.a Vic Stone) Appreciation REDUX!!!!!!

[HereNThere]

So now that we know and addressed why Cyborg has been a disappointment post New 52, what would Cyborg fans do to make this character relevant in the DC Rebirth era?

1. I doubt Johns will allow this to happen but Rebirth his origin. Wonder Woman is about to get her origin reworked, so I think Vic should have his reworked. Detach it from the Justice League and give him more space to develop before he's turned into a cyborg. Honestly, I still feel like we don't know who Vic is as of now. Think about it, we're just now learning of how he interacted with his mom. Secret Origins was a step in the right direction, but it still feels like we focused too much on Vic and father rather than his world.
   
   
2. Ditch the tragedy. Johns keeps pushing that as a large aspect of his character but it's holding his progression back. He's not a member of the Doom Patrol, he's a member of the Justice League. Give him an optimistic outlook on this new life, hell, have him be excited at the prospects.
   
   
3. Commit to his new look. There is no reason why artist should still be inconsistent in his appearance. We still have artist portraying him in a New52esque form. Also, ditch the face plate. Either dial it back to a subtle piece on his face or keep it eye red and give him a C symbol in his eye.
   
   
4. Give him a clearly defined personality that makes him stand out/stand with the other League members. Vic is plain as cardboard in the main Justice League book compared to the other characters.
   
   
5. Reconnect him with the Titans. He needs more connections outside of the League and his own small knit group. On that note, have him be the go to guy for everyone in the universe who wants information. Bring him into their books and let him do what he's good at.
   
   
6. Realistic weakness. He should not be vulnerable to hacking of any kind with the exception of being on his level, like Brainiac. Even then, it should be a crap shoot for both of them should they be hacked. Vic's main weakness should be something his technology can't account for, like magic. If Batman needs to create a contingency plan for him, Vic should also be the one to help Batman create it for himself should something actually go wrong and Vic needs to be taken out.
   
   
7. And finally, yes, a writer who is of a high level. Grant Morrison is a fantastic choice and would, most likely, give Vic some high concept stories that would definitely help him stand out. On the flip side, Reginald Hudlin could also give Vic a well defined universe that would make him seem important and badass, especially if he does something like Who is the Black Panther? Of course, that might come at the expese of other characters in the DCU, but hey, some sacrifices need to be made if you want Vic to succeed. It's not like DC is a stranger to throwing people under the bus anyhow.

Even then, all of these need to be immediately applied outside the comic medium. All promotional material needs to reflect these changes. Direct to video animations, promotional art, etc.

[Iconic]

1. I doubt Johns will allow this to happen but Rebirth his origin. Wonder Woman is about to get her origin reworked, so I think Vic should have his reworked. Detach it from the Justice League and give him more space to develop before he's turned into a cyborg. Honestly, I still feel like we don't know who Vic is as of now. Think about it, we're just now learning of how he interacted with his mom. Secret Origins was a step in the right direction, but it still feels like we focused too much on Vic and father rather than his world.
   
   
2. Ditch the tragedy. Johns keeps pushing that as a large aspect of his character but it's holding his progression back. He's not a member of the Doom Patrol, he's a member of the Justice League. Give him an optimistic outlook on this new life, hell, have him be excited at the prospects.
   
   
3. Commit to his new look. There is no reason why artist should still be inconsistent in his appearance. We still have artist portraying him in a New52esque form. Also, ditch the face plate. Either dial it back to a subtle piece on his face or keep it eye red and give him a C symbol in his eye.
   
   
4. Give him a clearly defined personality that makes him stand out/stand with the other League members. Vic is plain as cardboard in the main Justice League book compared to the other characters.
   
   
5. Reconnect him with the Titans. He needs more connections outside of the League and his own small knit group. On that note, have him be the go to guy for everyone in the universe who wants information. Bring him into their books and let him do what he's good at.
   
   
6. Realistic weakness. He should not be vulnerable to hacking of any kind with the exception of being on his level, like Brainiac. Even then, it should be a crap shoot for both of them should they be hacked. Vic's main weakness should be something his technology can't account for, like magic. If Batman needs to create a contingency plan for him, Vic should also be the one to help Batman create it for himself should something actually go wrong and Vic needs to be taken out.
   
   
7. And finally, yes, a writer who is of a high level. Grant Morrison is a fantastic choice and would, most likely, give Vic some high concept stories that would definitely help him stand out. On the flip side, Reginald Hudlin could also give Vic a well defined universe that would make him seem important and badass, especially if he does something like Who is the Black Panther? Of course, that might come at the expese of other characters in the DCU, but hey, some sacrifices need to be made if you want Vic to succeed. It's not like DC is a stranger to throwing people under the bus anyhow.

Even then, all of these need to be immediately applied outside the comic medium. All promotional material needs to reflect these changes. Direct to video animations, promotional art,

All. Of. This.

Fantastic breakdown. I wish you were the pointman for Cyborg.

[Vic Stoneman]

[QUOTE=darkseidpwns;1967315]Yeah except Deathstroke has found an audience and his appearance in SOB has done nothing to dent him, if anything it increased his profile. Slade is more popular than ever and his popularity is certain to increase over time unlike OM and MM. I'd argue Cyborg and MM are responsible for damaging each other more so than than Damian ever was.[/QUOTE

I believeeve SOB did Deathstroke a huge disservice. There is no way I can accept that the most revered antihero mercenary in the DCU, who has soundly defeated Batman and the TT on various occassions, would concede to a 10 year bratty kid, even if that kid somehow a living weapon at the age of 10. I couldn't sit through Arrow because Slade was being "dumbed down" for Oliver, and GA has always been a favorite of mine. What good is an increased profile when it is at the expense of character assassination.

As I already mentioned above, I don't correlate the success of Damien with the lack thereof with MM and CY. Damien has two major things going for him. He is a Robin. He is the SOB.

[Vic Stoneman]

Yeah except Deathstroke has found an audience and his appearance in SOB has done nothing to dent him, if anything it increased his profile. Slade is more popular than ever and his popularity is certain to increase over time unlike OM and MM. I'd argue Cyborg and MM are responsible for damaging each other more so than than Damian ever was.

After reading my rrsponse to you and being unable to edit, I feel I might be coming off as condescending, and I don't want give that vibe, so please don't take it that way.

[Vic Stoneman]

1. I doubt Johns will allow this to happen but Rebirth his origin. Wonder Woman is about to get her origin reworked, so I think Vic should have his reworked. Detach it from the Justice League and give him more space to develop before he's turned into a cyborg. Honestly, I still feel like we don't know who Vic is as of now. Think about it, we're just now learning of how he interacted with his mom. Secret Origins was a step in the right direction, but it still feels like we focused too much on Vic and father rather than his world.
   
   
2. Ditch the tragedy. Johns keeps pushing that as a large aspect of his character but it's holding his progression back. He's not a member of the Doom Patrol, he's a member of the Justice League. Give him an optimistic outlook on this new life, hell, have him be excited at the prospects.
   
   
3. Commit to his new look. There is no reason why artist should still be inconsistent in his appearance. We still have artist portraying him in a New52esque form. Also, ditch the face plate. Either dial it back to a subtle piece on his face or keep it eye red and give him a C symbol in his eye.
   
   
4. Give him a clearly defined personality that makes him stand out/stand with the other League members. Vic is plain as cardboard in the main Justice League book compared to the other characters.
   
   
5. Reconnect him with the Titans. He needs more connections outside of the League and his own small knit group. On that note, have him be the go to guy for everyone in the universe who wants information. Bring him into their books and let him do what he's good at.
   
   
6. Realistic weakness. He should not be vulnerable to hacking of any kind with the exception of being on his level, like Brainiac. Even then, it should be a crap shoot for both of them should they be hacked. Vic's main weakness should be something his technology can't account for, like magic. If Batman needs to create a contingency plan for him, Vic should also be the one to help Batman create it for himself should something actually go wrong and Vic needs to be taken out.
   
   
7. And finally, yes, a writer who is of a high level. Grant Morrison is a fantastic choice and would, most likely, give Vic some high concept stories that would definitely help him stand out. On the flip side, Reginald Hudlin could also give Vic a well defined universe that would make him seem important and badass, especially if he does something like Who is the Black Panther? Of course, that might come at the expese of other characters in the DCU, but hey, some sacrifices need to be made if you want Vic to succeed. It's not like DC is a stranger to throwing people under the bus anyhow.

Even then, all of these need to be immediately applied outside the comic medium. All promotional material needs to reflect these changes. Direct to video animations, promotional art, etc.

Yes, Yes and YES. I cosign on all of this, too. The only exception is that I wouldn't totally ditch the tragedy. Just minimize it. Drastically. He shouldn't have a storm cloud constantly hovering over him.

In addition to keeping some of his TT connections, I still advocate for a revamped JL Detroit under Vic's leadership (with some members being part of the supporting cast).

[Baseman]

1. I doubt Johns will allow this to happen but Rebirth his origin. Wonder Woman is about to get her origin reworked, so I think Vic should have his reworked. Detach it from the Justice League and give him more space to develop before he's turned into a cyborg. Honestly, I still feel like we don't know who Vic is as of now. Think about it, we're just now learning of how he interacted with his mom. Secret Origins was a step in the right direction, but it still feels like we focused too much on Vic and father rather than his world.
   
   
2. Ditch the tragedy. Johns keeps pushing that as a large aspect of his character but it's holding his progression back. He's not a member of the Doom Patrol, he's a member of the Justice League. Give him an optimistic outlook on this new life, hell, have him be excited at the prospects.
   
   
3. Commit to his new look. There is no reason why artist should still be inconsistent in his appearance. We still have artist portraying him in a New52esque form. Also, ditch the face plate. Either dial it back to a subtle piece on his face or keep it eye red and give him a C symbol in his eye.
   
   
4. Give him a clearly defined personality that makes him stand out/stand with the other League members. Vic is plain as cardboard in the main Justice League book compared to the other characters.
   
   
5. Reconnect him with the Titans. He needs more connections outside of the League and his own small knit group. On that note, have him be the go to guy for everyone in the universe who wants information. Bring him into their books and let him do what he's good at.
   
   
6. Realistic weakness. He should not be vulnerable to hacking of any kind with the exception of being on his level, like Brainiac. Even then, it should be a crap shoot for both of them should they be hacked. Vic's main weakness should be something his technology can't account for, like magic. If Batman needs to create a contingency plan for him, Vic should also be the one to help Batman create it for himself should something actually go wrong and Vic needs to be taken out.
   
   
7. And finally, yes, a writer who is of a high level. Grant Morrison is a fantastic choice and would, most likely, give Vic some high concept stories that would definitely help him stand out. On the flip side, Reginald Hudlin could also give Vic a well defined universe that would make him seem important and badass, especially if he does something like Who is the Black Panther? Of course, that might come at the expese of other characters in the DCU, but hey, some sacrifices need to be made if you want Vic to succeed. It's not like DC is a stranger to throwing people under the bus anyhow.

Even then, all of these need to be immediately applied outside the comic medium. All promotional material needs to reflect these changes. Direct to video animations, promotional art, etc.

Not really sure about this part.I mean usually when DC does shill characters.Its usually because the characters doing the shilling is aleast already somewhat popular to begin with.

However with Cyborg your trying to bring people in.So its seems counter productive risk pissing people off by throwing other characters under the bus to make him look good.

[skyvolt2000]

Not really sure about this part.I mean usually when DC does shill characters.Its usually because the characters doing the shilling is aleast already somewhat popular to begin with.

However with Cyborg your trying to bring people in.So its seems counter productive risk pissing people off by throwing other characters under the bus to make him look good.

John Stewart, Vixen, Static & Wally West say Hi from under the bus.

For many Cyborg has already been pushed at the expense of others.

Everything we have discussed over the past few days about the lack of MOVEMENT with Cyborg-increases the rage that others have. Not only do you lose your favorite but the chosen one is not even a concern for DC.

That makes it worst.

On the flip side, Reginald Hudlin could also give Vic a well defined universe that would make him seem important and badass, especially if he does something like Who is the Black Panther?

To be fair no hero got buried by Hudlin while he was doing BP. However you had a guy with 3 previous runs that accounted for 100+ solo stories. You had material to work with. Right now you have pretty much nothing to work with for Cyborg because you are battling editors (as Walker said) that want a certain direction that seems to involve a pity party about being an early version of Seven of Nine.

[Baseman]

John Stewart, Vixen, Static & Wally West say Hi from under the bus.

For many Cyborg has already been pushed at the expense of others.

Everything we have discussed over the past few days about the lack of MOVEMENT with Cyborg-increases the rage that others have. Not only do you lose your favorite but the chosen one is not even a concern for DC.

That makes it worst.

Only Jordan Stewart ( seemly because of G john fanboyism over Hal) and Wally West(for other version of himself though) fit I what think your trying to say.

Static's bad book was the result of mismanagement.He wasn't thrown under the bus to push anyone.

With Vixen they just weirdly stopped pushing her in comics for some reason.Nobody really took her place.

But I do agree that Cyborg's been stuck for a while now

[Agent Z]

1. I doubt Johns will allow this to happen but Rebirth his origin. Wonder Woman is about to get her origin reworked, so I think Vic should have his reworked. Detach it from the Justice League and give him more space to develop before he's turned into a cyborg. Honestly, I still feel like we don't know who Vic is as of now. Think about it, we're just now learning of how he interacted with his mom. Secret Origins was a step in the right direction, but it still feels like we focused too much on Vic and father rather than his world.
   
   
2. Ditch the tragedy. Johns keeps pushing that as a large aspect of his character but it's holding his progression back. He's not a member of the Doom Patrol, he's a member of the Justice League. Give him an optimistic outlook on this new life, hell, have him be excited at the prospects.
   
   
3. Commit to his new look. There is no reason why artist should still be inconsistent in his appearance. We still have artist portraying him in a New52esque form. Also, ditch the face plate. Either dial it back to a subtle piece on his face or keep it eye red and give him a C symbol in his eye.
   
   
4. Give him a clearly defined personality that makes him stand out/stand with the other League members. Vic is plain as cardboard in the main Justice League book compared to the other characters.
   
   
5. Reconnect him with the Titans. He needs more connections outside of the League and his own small knit group. On that note, have him be the go to guy for everyone in the universe who wants information. Bring him into their books and let him do what he's good at.
   
   
6. Realistic weakness. He should not be vulnerable to hacking of any kind with the exception of being on his level, like Brainiac. Even then, it should be a crap shoot for both of them should they be hacked. Vic's main weakness should be something his technology can't account for, like magic. If Batman needs to create a contingency plan for him, Vic should also be the one to help Batman create it for himself should something actually go wrong and Vic needs to be taken out.
   
   
7. And finally, yes, a writer who is of a high level. Grant Morrison is a fantastic choice and would, most likely, give Vic some high concept stories that would definitely help him stand out. On the flip side, Reginald Hudlin could also give Vic a well defined universe that would make him seem important and badass, especially if he does something like Who is the Black Panther? Of course, that might come at the expese of other characters in the DCU, but hey, some sacrifices need to be made if you want Vic to succeed. It's not like DC is a stranger to throwing people under the bus anyhow.

Even then, all of these need to be immediately applied outside the comic medium. All promotional material needs to reflect these changes. Direct to video animations, promotional art, etc.

Good list. I'd also add that Silas should have more of a role in developing Victor's cybernetics.

[HereNThere]

Yes, Yes and YES. I cosign on all of this, too. The only exception is that I wouldn't totally ditch the tragedy. Just minimize it. Drastically. He shouldn't have a storm cloud constantly hovering over him.

After 5 years, I think Vic's had his fill of tragedy. Let him move past it. If it is brought up, have it be in the past tense. Vic was angry and lost, but he got over it and looked at the positives. He can have other personal issues.

So its seems counter productive risk pissing people off by throwing other characters under the bus to make him look good.

Vic's been tossed under for Bats a couple times now. Let Vic have his moment.


In other new, Vic is basically a cameo in this weeks' Justice League.

As for his own book, I'm surprised that the Techno sapiens were actually still in play. But the resolution was...rushed to say the least. So was it just me or did it seem like the entire Government thing was dropped this issue? I mean, the Bill is still a threat to Vic right?

[vasir12]

Doesn't matter. The plot wasn't that great to begin with. Same with the villains.... who I thought we were done with, but I guess not.

[Vic Stoneman]

After 5 years, I think Vic's had his fill of tragedy. Let him move past it. If it is brought up, have it be in the past tense. Vic was angry and lost, but he got over it and looked at the positives. He can have other personal issues.



Vic's been tossed under for Bats a couple times now. Let Vic have his moment.


In other new, Vic is basically a cameo in this weeks' Justice League.

As for his own book, I'm surprised that the Techno sapiens were actually still in play. But the resolution was...rushed to say the least. So was it just me or did it seem like the entire Government thing was dropped this issue? I mean, the Bill is still a threat to Vic right?

I think we can agree to disagree on this one. The tragedy of what happened to him should be used throughout the series, but instead of the self-pitying aspect that we are used to seeing, he could be written as coping with the ordeal of his transformation by going to group therapy or seeing a psychiatrist. With as much trauma as superheroes go through, I am surprised the topic of PTSD hasn't been touched on more often, especially this day in age. IMO he is the perfect character to approach the topic of PTSD/depression without getting all PSA. Just make it a natural progression and a balanced part of his storytelling, while we see him deal with the Fearsome Five or an invasion from Thanagar.

As far as the other personal issues are concerned, I would not mind it if another story centered on his mother, only this time I would retcon her current history and have her disappear well before Vic’s accident, leading to a mystery about her disappearance, or even having her be some type of anti-hero or villain. What if she is the Mistress of H.I.V.E. or member of Brother Blood? Could be a great opportunity to bring in one of these classic, yet revamped TT villains and rock Vic’s world.

As far as the current story, definitely weak plot with a rushed ending, but glad to see Marv Wolfman write for Cyborg again.

[Vic Stoneman]

Good list. I'd also add that Silas should have more of a role in developing Victor's cybernetics.

Yeah, I would like to see that, too. If Silas is going to be an essential part of this series, I want to see him be more involved in Vic's progression as Cyborg. That is one thing I miss about the original origin.

[Robotman]

The ending to issue 10 definitely seemed rushed but I liked the story overall. It had some nice character moments and we finally got to see Vic flex his cybornetic and digital muscle. He just kind of bitch slapped a powerful tech company that was actually run by alien invaders. We've been waiting for him to show why he's called the most technologically advanced being on earth. He shut them down with a thought. I also liked how he can change his look depending on the type of fight he's in. He has his cool Ivan Reis design but he can also armor up if he needs more fire power. Plus I think he's changed into a normal looking human in every issue since he gained the ability. Hopefully that means it's here to stay.

[Agent Z]

So what other characters would you like to see in Cyborg's book. I'd like Jinx to appear and I'd like to see Takeo Yakata aka Ram. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_(comics)