As Superman fans, do you think Batman is a nuisance in the Justice League ?

[Blacksun]

double post

[Vanguard-01]

I wish this was the case.

yeah batman overshadow everyone, but ww needs to stand alone and go in her own way

She does go in her own way. She has her own way of doing things. She doesn't let Superman or anyone else tell her how to things. She'll take advice from time to time, because EVERYONE should be willing to listen to what other people think every now and then. But she's hardly on her way toward becoming a clone of any other hero.

[Ascended]

yeah we don't know what batman fans expect from JL. But put him doing little things i don't think will work. there's very good books with batman on action now eternal, 'tec, batman.
last issue of JL wasn't a good example of a good team work:

Well, I dont know about you, but doing things like sneaking past Brainiac's security systems and implanting a virus, or outwitting and distracting The Key, or solving the murder of a rookie superhero don't feel like "little things" to me. They feel like totally badass things that no one else in the League is suited for doing. But if you think those are "little" things without any sort of potential narrative merit, good for you.

And no one said that Batman isn't good at fighting. Just that he's not good (or rather, shouldnt be) at fighting gods who move at the speed of thought. What happens in his own titles is a complete and utter non-issue.

We're also not discussing the League's teamwork as a whole, but rather Batman's role within that framework, so once again, not the point.

[Sacred Knight]

I wish this was the case.

No you don't. When someone reads things that aren't there, and makes false claims, they're doing so because its exactly what they want to see, even though the actual product doesn't support it one iota.

[Blacksun]

Well, I dont know about you, but doing things like sneaking past Brainiac's security systems and implanting a virus, or outwitting and distracting The Key, or solving the murder of a rookie superhero don't feel like "little things" to me. They feel like totally badass things that no one else in the League is suited for doing. But if you think those are "little" things without any sort of potential narrative merit, good for you.

And no one said that Batman isn't good at fighting. Just that he's not good (or rather, shouldnt be) at fighting gods who move at the speed of thought. What happens in his own titles is a complete and utter non-issue.

We're also not discussing the League's teamwork as a whole, but rather Batman's role within that framework, so once again, not the point.

I think that everything has a merit, detective, hacker, or i wouldn't be reading black widow comics. he is also a great fighter and has expensive gadgets. I think all of this can be used on different situations, it's up to the writer use all of this.

No you don't. When someone reads things that aren't there, and makes false claims, they're doing so because its exactly what they want to see, even though the actual product doesn't support it one iota.

It doesn't support? right, everyone have their own bias. I have mine, but letting they aside I still stand by my opinion. There is no franchise going out of WW, almost no role on events. Now johns seems to be getting ww better on JL

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

I think that everything has a merit, detective, hacker, or i wouldn't be reading black widow comics. he is also a great fighter and has expensive gadgets. I think all of this can be used on different situations, it's up to the writer use all of this.



It doesn't support? right, everyone have their own bias. I have mine, but letting they aside I still stand by my opinion. There is no franchise going out of WW, almost no role on events. Now johns seems to be getting ww better on JL

Which is why Batman Incorporated is the place to go for Batman after leaving the Justice League.

[Francisco]

No. Which is why Batman needs to leave the Justice League to restart Batman Incorporated. Batman Incorporated enemies are not godlike beings. So its realistic for Batman to take them down with his martial art and detective skills. Batman being in the Justice League is a horrible mismatch. Its like a 5 footer trying to guard Lebron James. Already sounds silly when you hear and its even more silly when you see it in action. Batman needs to go and the lastest posts prove how piss off people are with Batman being a leaguer.

Batman's entire concept is silly when you think about it. It gets sillier when you watch it in print. The other day I was reading this issue related to the even No man's land. The story was good but the art watching Batman graving his cape a la Dracula and leaping from one rock to the other. It was kind of pathetic. Heroes who can't fly shouldn't use capes.

[dangleo61288]

Batman's entire concept is silly when you think about it. It gets sillier when you watch it in print. The other day I was reading this issue related to the even No man's land. The story was good but the art watching Batman graving his cape a la Dracula and leaping from one rock to the other. It was kind of pathetic. Heroes who can't fly shouldn't use capes.

He glides with it.

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

Batman's entire concept is silly when you think about it. It gets sillier when you watch it in print. The other day I was reading this issue related to the even No man's land. The story was good but the art watching Batman graving his cape a la Dracula and leaping from one rock to the other. It was kind of pathetic. Heroes who can't fly shouldn't use capes.

First, comic book characters are silly. Lest be honest here. We have a flying alien shooting laser with his eye balls. We have a flying Amazon princess with an unbreakable lasso. I mean what is this ? But its all ok for us comic book fans because we accept that comics are not a reaslictic representation of our world. Being unrealistic should always be the way to go when talking about comics. Being unrealistic create more opportunities for original storylines. But I would still prefer to have a drink with Jack Bauer than any comic book character you can think of except maybe for Spiderman because at least Jack Bauer feels real.

Second, yes Batman is a silly concept but at least the concept works in a Batman's world. But Batman being in the Justice League is even more silly because the Justice League does not feel like a world for Batman to evolve in. Put Batman in Batman Incorporated and Batman as a concept is less silly because Batman Incorporated is like an extension of the world of Batman. In short, Batman Incorporated validates the concept of Batman on a global scale in the DC universe making Batman less silly than he actually appears. So I hope people can understand why I need Batman out of the Justice League so he can restart Batman Incorporated.

[Francisco]

He glides with it.

In those awesome Nolan movies. In the comics he grabs it like if He was Dracula and then jumps sideways or covers half his face trying to be mysterious and stuff. Too silly.
At least with Superman, Thor and other super powered guys we know the cape doesn't serve any practical purpose but it looks cool and majestic when the fly.
Batman can be on the Justice League. Just give him a power suit with a jet pack and high tech weaponry all of it customized with little batshaped wings.

[Guy1]

In those awesome Nolan movies. In the comics he grabs it like if He was Dracula and then jumps sideways or covers half his face trying to be mysterious and stuff. Too silly.
At least with Superman, Thor and other super powered guys we know the cape doesn't serve any practical purpose but it looks cool and majestic when the fly.
Batman can be on the Justice League. Just give him a power suit with a jet pack and high tech weaponry all of it customized with little batshaped wings.

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

More like Iron Bat than Batman.

[dangleo61288]

In those awesome Nolan movies. In the comics he grabs it like if He was Dracula and then jumps sideways or covers half his face trying to be mysterious and stuff. Too silly.
At least with Superman, Thor and other super powered guys we know the cape doesn't serve any practical purpose but it looks cool and majestic when the fly.
Batman can be on the Justice League. Just give him a power suit with a jet pack and high tech weaponry all of it customized with little batshaped wings.

That would be cool. And that is just it Batman has access to alien technology, a multibillion dollar fortune, a company with teams of scientists, and a brilliant mind, which would enable him to find ways to fight alongside the league.

[Francisco]

Silliness goes off the window. Now Batman can stand shoulder to shoulder with the other guys and there's no need to turn everyone into blithering idiots so Batman doesn't come up as useless.

[DochaDocha]

Yay, a Déjà vu thread. I regret contributing to the, ahem, sidetracking, but I feel like various points are being misinterpreted.

No proof of that. Diana was in a bad situation, sure. But there's no proof Doomsday would've been able to kill her. Zod and Faora didn't think they could beat Superman and Diana to death while they were unconscious. Doomsday wouldn't have been able to kill Diana quickly. She probably would've healed her arms and fought back, or she could've simply flown away.

Wonder Woman lost that fight to Doomsday. If the fight were allowed to continue, Doomsday would've won handily. However, if I read one more time that Superman bailed out WW at that instance...

I get it. I missed it the first time, but the panels make it very clear once you're willing to read the explanation, or have it told to you, or whatever. Superman had no effect on the fight in #2. Doomsday disappeared spontaneously. So nobody saved anyone there, except perhaps you could say Lady Luck saved WW. I feel like this has been clarified more than once on CBR, perhaps even by Charles Soule himself, but there's a continuing banging the drum that Superman saved her there. False false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false false (each of those 17 "falses" are symbolic, in case you're wondering why I typed it out that many times ). I mean, if you want to complain about that scene, at least make the right complaint!

Screenshot 2015-01-31 00.12.00.jpg
Screenshot 2015-01-31 00.12.04.jpg

See the pink aura around Doomsday in the first pic? See the pink bubble around Doomsday in the second pic? One of the big early plot points about Doomsday was that he would randomly phase back and forth between the Phantom Zone and Earth. That pink light represents the transporting back and forth. So Superman did squadoosh there to turn the tide of the fight.

Now in issue #2, we see Wonder Woman lose a fight, completely luck out, and then hold her badly injured left arm afterward. Then in issue #5, we see Superman lose a fight, completely luck out, and then hold his badly injured left arm afterward. I don't know, but that to me seems like obvious parallelism. Or it's a coincidence, because Charles Soule is no good at his day job (or night job)* and he can't intentionally do juxtaposition, or even spell it.

Doesn't matter. Diana injured Doomsday. She was resisting his poison, and she was looking damn good there. There is no reason at all to believe Diana couldn't have taken Doomsday if Superman hadn't shown up.

I think it was inconclusive. Doomsday got one hit, she got one hit.

I feel like no matter what the topic has been for the last three years, the discussion always heads toward why S/W sucks.

Okay, rant over. That's the last I'll say on that (and CBR cheers!).

Sometimes, I wonder if in the Multiverse, there should be a universe in which Batman is only a member of the JL, and Gotham is patrolled almost exclusively by his proteges, and another universe in which Batman is more grounded, like Nolan-verse, the early days of BTAS, or the Bill Finger comics, and there are no other heroes. The former can go all ape doodoo wild with wacky and crazy inventions, sort of like Iron Man, or a better version of Steel, or a good version of Power Suit Luthor, whereas the latter can do more of the noir, gritty stuff. That sort of disconnect, saying the guy in the down-to-earthish stories is the same guy going off on space adventures, or going to some magical realm, is part of the reason I sighed when they tried to bridge the gap between Mask of the Phantasm with Justice League Unlimited and Batman Beyond. If you told me that Batman in Gotham, working with Commissioner Gordon, and fighting street thugs was not the same guy as the one prancing with the Justice League, I'd probably find Batgod stories a lot more tolerable.


*Being facetious, of course