Are the sidekicks and villains more popular than Batman himself?

[LoneNecromancer]

Exactly. Re-reading my Grant/Breyfogle, Englehart/Rogers and classic comics reaffirms that Bruce had an actual personality and interesting character flaws, but they were all sucked out of him in order to make the sidekicks the more "layered" characters in comparison.

Wonder if they'll ever reprint Strange Apparations.

[Aioros22]

Why does upset you if someone prefers Dick over Bat? For a main character to work, it needs surrounding of good secondary characters (hopefully). Either way, if he or she are only a main character in a vacum, they won`t be maleable ficition wise. I prefer the Jason and Grayson over Bruce. Doesn`t make me disliking Bruce or not respecting him as a character.

He`s written and treated and published as the big batboy in town.

[Nite-Wing]

I just find it odd that someone like Dick or even Jason has become somewhat a forum favorite. I mean I get that Bruce isn't for everyone but it seems like people take Bruce to have the worst qualities that are irreconcilable but then take Dick,Jason,or even Tim and say they don't have some of the same in them.

[jules]

But why assume that the characters that people have most to say about are necessarily also their favourites?

Sometimes it's situational. Character X is undergoing changes, and there are mysteries involved, so there's more to say and to speculate about than Character Y, for whom it's mostly business as usual, with the main variable being the current villain they're in pursuit of.

I'd say that I like Bruce and Dick about equally. I like dfferent things about each of them, and I like how they bring those differences out in each other, so I'm always happy to see them make an appearance in each other's book. Neither of them is my favourite DC character; they're just the characters that I'm fond of who happen to be going through a good period at the moment.

Bruce is actually my banker character; the one I return to as a safe haven when dreadful things have been done to other favourites. I appreciate greatly that he's strong enough at his core, and as a concept, and in his popularity, that he generally doesn't seem to get broken in the same way, or at least never for long, and generally not in all the books he appears in simultaneously. I appreciate that he has such strength in depth in his supporting cast that many of them are able to carry their own titles and stand independent of him, because that definitely adds depth and enriches Gotham and his backstory. Of course, I see him more as an introvert than a loner, grumpily pushing other people away when he's in need of his "me" time (and probably wary of fully embracing the Bruce Wayne part of his persona because he plays Bruce as more extrovert and gregarious than he actually feels comfortable with). So the supporting cast helps bring out those aspects of his personality. I enjoy reading his stories, and the many varied ways in which they're told. I just don't always have a lot to say about them.

Dick I like for entirely different reasons. He's gregarious in a way that doesn't come naturally to Bruce, he's a better people person, and he's an all around nice guy. But he hasn't always been well served by the stories that have been told about him. Right now though he's going through a rennaissance, doing new and interesting things, and people are responding to that and discussing it.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

In the comics, I tend to find most writers write Bruce/Bats pretty inconsistently and poorly synergized w/ other supporting characters, and I tend to dislike knowing Bruce's inner monologs - I think the character is given more justice when the reader has to interpret his mentality, thought processes, and psychology. Hence why I don't really like him in comics, except as a supporting/guest character.

But I generally love him in movies, video games, TV shows (especially TAS), etc.

[oasis1313]

I think one reason you see this is that Dick/Jason/Tim/Damian, etc fans are all VERY dedicated to their fave, and more so, extremely protective. Batman/Bruce has many, many, many more casual customers (and his own super-fans) who are buying comics but aren't on the forum.

[The True Detective]

Exactly. Re-reading my Grant/Breyfogle, Englehart/Rogers and classic comics reaffirms that Bruce had an actual personality and interesting character flaws, but they were all sucked out of him in order to make the sidekicks the more "layered" characters in comparison.

That's largely my problem with the sidekicks, the writers spend so much time trying to make them interesting that Bruce's actual characterization suffers. Like in Batman: The Animated Series Bruce had a good sense of humor and could be witty. By the time TNBA came along with Nightwing, Batgirl and Robin being featured more Bruce was Flanderized into being totally grim and serious ALL the time. There was no difference between Bruce Wayne (who was on less than he was in TAS) and Batman. Then on JL/U with the sidekicks out of they way the Flanderization started to wear off and he could joke around again. He was a great straight man to Flash especially. This is part of the reason I like Bruce in JL stories more than when he's with the Bat family, I like his interactions with Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Aquaman, etc more than one's with his Batfamily members.

I don't dislike the sidekicks just in case anyone's wondering. I like Dick, Damian and Barbara but I don't like when Bruce's personality and character are put on the back burner because the writers are more concerned with making the characters around him more interesting.

[Godlike13]

I don't dislike the sidekicks just in case anyone's wondering. I like Dick, Damian and Barbara but I don't like when Bruce's personality and character are put on the back burner because the writers are more concerned with making the characters around him more interesting.

Dude i like the sidekicks, Dick, Damian and Barbara, more than Batman and i don't even like when they do that. Another thing that bugs me is when Batman is used as their punching bag. Oh and not too mention when they talk down to him and try to tell him what to do. That really bugs me. They do it in Eternal and i want Batman to just slap them all.

[Badou]

Well the problem is that Batman/Bruce as a character is spread so thin across so many books, and media really, that it is difficult to get a handle on his character. Each person writing him writes him a little differently and puts their own spin on the character. So in many ways Batman is less of a solidly defined character and more a vessel that the person writing him takes over so they can play in Batman's world. He can be written anywhere and do anything, and when a character is like that it becomes difficult to relate to or become invested in them. They become sort of stagnate and writers start to become more interested delving into the things around Batman rather than Batman himself.

[The True Detective]

Well the problem is that Batman/Bruce as a character is spread so thin across so many books, and media really, that it is difficult to get a handle on his character. Each person writing him writes him a little differently and puts their own spin on the character. So in many ways Batman is less of a solidly defined character and more a vessel that the person writing him takes over so they can play in Batman's world. He can be written anywhere and do anything, and when a character is like that it becomes difficult to relate to or become invested in them. They become sort of stagnate and writers start to become more interested delving into the things around Batman rather than Batman himself.

The same thing could be said of Spider-Man, he appears in just as many books and just as much media as Batman does. But Spider-Man writers never focus more on the characters surrounding Peter than Peter himself. Same thing with Superman, you'll never have a story were Supergirl, Lex, Lois, Superboy, etc are getting better characterization than Clark is, he's always going to be the top focus of his stories. Spider-Man and Superman both have very developed and interesting supporting characters and appear in a lot of media as well but they're rarely not the main focus of their stories. Bruce on the other hand despite being the main character of the franchise gets put in the background a lot in favor of his supporting cast.

[Fuzzy Cactus]

The same thing could be said of Spider-Man, he appears in just as many books and just as much media as Batman does. But Spider-Man writers never focus more on the characters surrounding Peter than Peter himself. Same thing with Superman, you'll never have a story were Supergirl, Lex, Lois, Superboy, etc are getting better characterization than Clark is, he's always going to be the top focus of his stories. Spider-Man and Superman both have very developed and interesting supporting characters and appear in a lot of media as well but they're rarely not the main focus of their stories. Bruce on the other hand despite being the main character of the franchise gets put in the background a lot in favor of his supporting cast.

In what stories? He's certainly not getting shoved into the background in titles like "Batman" or "Detective Comics". He's obviously not going to be the main character in "Batgirl", "Nightwing", or "Grayson".

[The True Detective]

In what stories? He's certainly not getting shoved into the background in titles like "Batman" or "Detective Comics". He's obviously not going to be the main character in "Batgirl", "Nightwing", or "Grayson".

Well like I said sometimes it feels like his characterization suffers because the writers care more about showing off the personalities of those around him than they do showing his. Others have noticed this too, Bruce can actually have a sense of humor and have a more well developed personality unfortunately the writers seem to see him as a prop and develop the others at his expense. It's like they want to tone down Batman to let the others shine when they can easily write both Batman AND the supporting cast to shine. The writers care more about writing a book about Gotham that just happens to have Batman in it when they should be writing a Batman book that just happens to take place in Gotham. Not that the side characters shouldn't get character development or anything but they should never be made more of a priority than the actual main character. In short treat Batman the way Superman and Spider-Man are treated.

[Fuzzy Cactus]

That's certainly not the case with Snyder's title, nor Manapul/Buccellato's.

[Badou]

The same thing could be said of Spider-Man, he appears in just as many books and just as much media as Batman does. But Spider-Man writers never focus more on the characters surrounding Peter than Peter himself. Same thing with Superman, you'll never have a story were Supergirl, Lex, Lois, Superboy, etc are getting better characterization than Clark is, he's always going to be the top focus of his stories. Spider-Man and Superman both have very developed and interesting supporting characters and appear in a lot of media as well but they're rarely not the main focus of their stories. Bruce on the other hand despite being the main character of the franchise gets put in the background a lot in favor of his supporting cast.

Eh, Spider-man just had a story where Doctor Octopus was written to be a better Spider-man than Peter. So I think both of them get stories were their supporting cast are written better from time to time. I mean the majority of Batman stories don't have him in the background, especially the current ones. It's most of his supporting characters that have gotten shafted in the reboot from what I've seen.

Still, to go back to my earlier point I think Batman is more of a vessel for his writers to take over so they can play in Batman's world and less of a solidly defined character. He is whatever they want him to be. He's the smartest person on Earth, richest person, the best martial artists, and he can defeat anyone or do anything. Every woman wants him and every man wants to be him. Batman is the ultimate comic power fantasy. So because of that I don't think it is uncommon for some Batman fans to gravitate to certain supporting characters because they feel they can relate to them more, or find them more interesting because they have more of a defined character. He is still by far the most popular comic character in the world and I doubt that will change any time soon though.

[The True Detective]

That's certainly not the case with Snyder's title, nor Manapul/Buccellato's.

I know but it has happened, the writers shouldn't care more about writing the characters surrounding Batman than they are in writing Batman himself.