Are the sidekicks and villains more popular than Batman himself?

[Maxpower00044]

Batman >> Life


/thread

[TheBatman]

Honestly, I can see where the OP is coming from.

As a matter of fact, I've often wondered why there ISN'T a "Bruce Wayne Appreciation" thread.

Superman and Wonder Woman fans are very protective, even insecure, over Clark and Diana. Here, it's not the case. Honestly, I think its due to the fact that Batman is so popular, he doesn't need fans to rally behind him and protect him and form clubs around him.

Still, Bruce is absolutely my favorite character in the Batverse. In fact, many times I find the Batfamily annoying, save for Dick Grayson. I hated how writers would seemingly build up Babs and Tim's intelligence at the expense of Bruce and even Dick. I hated how Batman, who was originally an acrobatic swashbuckling crimefighter, became a bulkier tank like fighter because it was simplest way to contrast him from Dick. I hate how for the past few years, Selina was basically apart of the Batfamily as well. If the Batfamily was just Dick and Alfred, I'd be happy.

One thing I liked about the Nolan trilogy was the emphasis on Bruce Wayne and his personal journey.

[Aioros22]

I agree that the author of the article went too far in saying that he doesn't need his supporting cast, but I think the idea that he doesn't need them in every story is pretty sound. Authors getting inventive by creating compelling adversaries for him to face is probably a bigger part of his enduring popularity than any of the sidekicks.

Him going too far is the sole irksome thing. The idea that Batman (or a major main character) doesn`t need his supporting cast in every storyarc isn`t controversial to me in the slighest. But to me, the cast plays as big a part. Without the adicional voices, Batman wouldn`t be as thriling for a growing audience. The 60`s tv show is a good exemple.

I have a lot of the back issues from the run this article is talking about, and you'd be surprised how many people in the letter columns were overjoyed that Robin was nowhere in sigh..

Followed almost right after the whole call stunt that a good deal bought at the time (I also recall O`Neil claiming there was quite the feedback against it as well) Still, editorial must have felt the majority of the readership wanted Robin back in proper stories because Neal Adams redesign aside and initial arc, that was the run that actually shaped Tim into Robin, by making use of Dick and "ghost" Jason passing the torch.

And while you're right that Rises brought in a supporting cast, it still kept it isolated to Alfred, Gordon, Selina and one Robin-type character. That's quite a bit different than the massive Bat-Family that smothers him in the comics these days.

The movies aren`t a publishing format. It`s mostly a 2 hour venue to show a story. One Robin character that kind of represents the main 3 was more than enough. But I am not talking about sheer quantity here, but really that even a triology that had the "bringing the realism" of Batman as the story, to a new level, still made quite the use of his supporting cast.

Meanwhile, the last comics accurate portrayal of Robin we saw on the big screen is blamed as one of the factors for Batman becoming box office poison.

Almost nothing in Batman and Robin is worth salivating for, iincluding the main character. Batman Forever on the other hand is a good cast and a good film that drew nicely in the summer of its release.

[The True Detective]

If you're going to bring movies into the argument, let's not forget that Captain America: The Winter Soldier is considered one of Marvel's best films, and had more development for Captain America's sidekicks than Captain America himself. Or that the most highly praised character in the Thor movies is Loki. Or the X-Men and Guardians of the Galaxy films, which were all about ensemble casts. Perhaps, you know, the quality of a film depends on the director, the writers, and the actors, and not whether or not sidekicks/villains are heavily featured?

Only Black Widow got as much development as Cap she was basically the co-lead but none else did. The Winter Soldier himself didn't even have a personality just like the mind controlled Hawkeye in The Avengers.X-Men and GOTG movies are different, those are team movies so of course no one character is going to be made more important than the others. Well with the X-Men movie Wolverine is the main character and people criticize that fact because the other characters get their development put on the back burner because the writers care more about Wolverine than them. And some people criticize Marvel for giving so much focus to Loki over Thor, I can see where they're coming from. It's not a team movie, it's not the Loki movie franchise it's about Thor.

Outside of Thor the MCU movies are praised for having the heroes be the one who drives the story even at the detriment to the villains's own characterization. MCU Iron Man's villains and supporting cast aren't more memorable than Batman or Spider-Man's but IM3 made more money than any Batman or Spider-Man movie ever. Of course the quality of the movie isn't entirely dependent on the sidekicks and villains but I'm just saying Batman doesn't absolutely need the sidekicks and villains to be heavily featured to have a good movie. Some people think the villains are actually more popular than Batman, that's crazy. What's next the Bond villains are more popular than James Bond himself? The villains are popular in relation to Batman. If they were Plastic Man villains they wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as they are now. The Joker is the only Batman villain or supporting character who would be extremely popular regardless of his connection to Batman.

[oasis1313]

Honestly, I can see where the OP is coming from.

As a matter of fact, I've often wondered why there ISN'T a "Bruce Wayne Appreciation" thread.

Superman and Wonder Woman fans are very protective, even insecure, over Clark and Diana. Here, it's not the case. Honestly, I think its due to the fact that Batman is so popular, he doesn't need fans to rally behind him and protect him and form clubs around him.

Still, Bruce is absolutely my favorite character in the Batverse. In fact, many times I find the Batfamily annoying, save for Dick Grayson. I hated how writers would seemingly build up Babs and Tim's intelligence at the expense of Bruce and even Dick. I hated how Batman, who was originally an acrobatic swashbuckling crimefighter, became a bulkier tank like fighter because it was simplest way to contrast him from Dick. I hate how for the past few years, Selina was basically apart of the Batfamily as well. If the Batfamily was just Dick and Alfred, I'd be happy.

One thing I liked about the Nolan trilogy was the emphasis on Bruce Wayne and his personal journey.

I think Bruce's fans don't worry about him because they don't HAVE to; he's safe. Even if he gets "killed", he's safe. The only Bat-character who's as safe as Bruce is Tim. Maybe Damian in the second or third tier because he's already been killed once. Your point that writers go for the SIMPLE ways to contrast between characters' ie. Bruce is The Tank, Tim is The Brain, Jason is The Killer, Dick is The Bimbo, Damian is The Son, Barbara/Selina/Talia etc etc etc is The Boobs, Kate is The Lesbian, Lucas is The Minority. Today's writers don't seem to get the basic rule of writing: "Show--don't tell." We don't get to see subtle differences between who these characters are--we're just informed that That's How It Is, these beloved characters are all labelled, compartmentalized, and put in their designated slots. I guess that if I want to read Hemingway, I should go read Hemingway and not "funnybooks."

[bat1987]

Superman and Wonder Woman fans are very protective, even insecure, over Clark and Diana. Here, it's not the case. Honestly, I think its due to the fact that Batman is so popular, he doesn't need fans to rally behind him and protect him and form clubs around him.

This is very true.

[Naked Bat]

I think what makes such characters as batman or superman great characters are the protagonist himself, and his supporting cast. Bruce Wayne is a character I have a deep attachment to. Bu I also think what makes him so great are his interactions with others, like Alfred, Gordon, Dick, Damian... It's like in real life actually, you measure the greatness of a person by observing her interactions with others.

[Agent Z]

Honestly, I can see where the OP is coming from.

As a matter of fact, I've often wondered why there ISN'T a "Bruce Wayne Appreciation" thread.

Superman and Wonder Woman fans are very protective, even insecure, over Clark and Diana. Here, it's not the case. Honestly, I think its due to the fact that Batman is so popular, he doesn't need fans to rally behind him and protect him and form clubs around him.

Still, Bruce is absolutely my favorite character in the Batverse. In fact, many times I find the Batfamily annoying, save for Dick Grayson. I hated how writers would seemingly build up Babs and Tim's intelligence at the expense of Bruce and even Dick. I hated how Batman, who was originally an acrobatic swashbuckling crimefighter, became a bulkier tank like fighter because it was simplest way to contrast him from Dick. I hate how for the past few years, Selina was basically apart of the Batfamily as well. If the Batfamily was just Dick and Alfred, I'd be happy.

One thing I liked about the Nolan trilogy was the emphasis on Bruce Wayne and his personal journey.

The reason you don't see so many fans clamouring to come to Bruce's defense is because he doesn't need them. He is hands down the company's biggest cash cow and the writers have an almost unhealthy love for him. You complained about his intelligence being dumbed down to make others smarter, yet that's exactly what happens to others heroes plenty of times when they team up in Justice League. To DC, Bruce is (and always will be) priority number one.

Furthermore, if you want a Batman appreciation thread, just make one yourself.