Movie Falcon vs. 616 Falcon

[tg1982]

I felt that line was more saying that his thinking is in line with Cap and anything he can do Sam can do as well but just at a slower pace.

From day one of the Captain America and Falcon series they have been equal partners. With the movie version being fresh out the gate, in terms of crazy super plots, he took ques from Cap and Widow. But at the same time he remained an individual and not just a sidekick. In the next movie we will probably see more of Falcon as a hero and character who can stand on his own.

Quoted for truth.

I like both but I prefer MCU Falcon for his background. Mackie's experience playing soldiers really came though and I look forward to see where he will take Sam in future films.

Oh and the "Don't look at me. I do what he does, only slower," line. That's one soldier talking to others (Steve and Nick Fury.) The only difference between Sam and Steve is the super soldier serum, but they are essentially the same on the inside where it counts. And they do have many of the same skills, Sam easily took on the Hydra goons from the causeway, "Go. I got this." I do not see that as a sidekick angle - even with a little bit of cheesy dialog (It happens in every film.)

I do not know Sam's origin in the comics, but I think he's pretty much the same character.

I got to agree. Even with the few differences, the basic character of Sam Wilson was, I think, spot on.

Right now the MCU Falcon and the 616 Falcon are in two different situations. The MCU Falcon is just starting out while the 616 Falcon has been doing this for years and years.

I think the MCU Falcon kicks ass. I never got the feeling that he was Cap's "sidekick" at all. I think a lot of people's comic bias is coming out. Was Black Widow also Cap's sidekick in the movie? Falcon came across as a friend and partner to Cap. Not sidekick. Falcon held his own, gave Cap a place to stay, gave Cap advice about Bucky, and never needed Cap to come save him. That doesn't scream sidekick to me.

Me neither. However, I've never viewed Falcon as a side kick to begin with.

[Lady Warp Spasm]

I got to agree. Even with the few differences, the basic character of Sam Wilson was, I think, spot on.

Me neither. However, I've never viewed Falcon as a side kick to begin with.

Same here. I always saw Sam as an equal not a sidekick. I am really enjoying rereading Brubaker's Captain America run because there is no doubt that Sam is Steve's friend and vice versa. It's nice to see this carry over to the movies too.

[JudicatorPrime]

Hey guys. So, if you've been reading Mighty Avengers, you know that Falcon doesn't like being thought of as just a sidekick to Captain America, yet in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, he's perfectly fine with it, even having this gem of a (paraphrased) line: "Hey, don't ask me, I do whatever he does."

Did anyone else think this was weird?

No, not weird. Pro forma.

It exemplifies my issue with the Falcon. One the hand, I like that the movie version has a far different -- and IMO far better -- backstory than the comic version. It's not even close. Yet on the other hand, Sam Wilson is doomed to be a sidekick in both.

There are, of course, ways to mitigate the perception of being a sidekick. We all know that a god like Thor would follow Cap even to the gates of Hel itself and beyond. Yet no one will ever mistake Thor for a sidekick. Why? Firstly, we all know that Thor is clearly Cap's superior physically and martially speaking. Following a capable leader isn't what makes you a sidekick. It's one thing to be subordinate by choice, but quite another to be the subordinate because you are clearly the inferior person in the partnership and your contributions...even the extent to which you are ALLOWED to contribute... echo that fact.

The only way that Sam loses the sidekick stigma is if Sam clearly becomes Cap's equal or superior in the eyes of their enemies and their audience. How do we establish that? Easy. Instead of Cap being the one to defeat the prime threat, let Sam do it. Instead of Cap barking the orders, let Sam do it. Instead of Cap getting all of the "jobber" benefits and proving victorious as a consequence, let Sam receive it. Instead of only Cap being the greatest living symbol for freedom, identify Sam in equal glory. After all, who better to embody the struggle for freedom than an African American? (It's too late to do so now, but I often thought that Sam's costume name should have been something other than the Falcon. At least in my mind I will always unconsciously link the falcon to the Horus mythos. No, with all due respect to Strongbow, the name that Sam should have been given from the very start was the American Eagle. And Redwing should have been this giant harpy eagle-sized raptor with its own Cosmic Cube-spawned powers. )

Side question: Does anyone remember what Sam's military rank was in the movie? I can't recall.

[Captain Wessex]

don't think his rank was given. as a PJ, though, he may well be only an NCO. Senior Airman, Tech Sergeant or something.

[Lady Warp Spasm]

don't think his rank was given. as a PJ, though, he may well be only an NCO. Senior Airman, Tech Sergeant or something.

You're right, they did not mention what Sam's rank is. With the many missions he and Riley were on though, I'd think Sergeant at the very lest.

[Captain Wessex]

I'd go on him being an E4 pay-grade at the minimum, which is Senior Airman. He could be an E5 Staff Sergeant or if he's a rising star who's been promoted quickly, an E6 Technical Sergeant. He seems too young to be an E7 Master Sergeant. It's more likely that he holds an E5 or E6 rank since he was involved in a R&D programme using the wing-packs and therefore, had probably already served for a while and proved his mettle before being selected for the programme.


Or, I could just be full of BS. Hell, he could be a Warrant Officer or even an actual commissioned officer. I dunno.

[Lady Warp Spasm]

I'd go on him being an E4 pay-grade at the minimum, which is Senior Airman. He could be an E5 Staff Sergeant or if he's a rising star who's been promoted quickly, an E6 Technical Sergeant. He seems too young to be an E7 Master Sergeant. It's more likely that he holds an E5 or E6 rank since he was involved in a R&D programme using the wing-packs and therefore, had probably already served for a while and proved his mettle before being selected for the programme.


Or, I could just be full of BS. Hell, he could be a Warrant Officer or even an actual commissioned officer. I dunno.

I appreciate your knowledge of specific military rank Captain Wessex. Given what you said and Sam's knowledge of the suit, I'd agree on an E6 Technical Sergeant.

[Captain Wessex]

meh, It's guesswork. I've read a load of stuff on the military, US and UK cuz I write GI Joe fan-fic, but i would by no means call myself an expert.

[Thennary Nak]

I think it also depends on what rank he entered with as well. If he went to college before joining and had a BA he would start at E-4 and there are fast track options as well. But I would definitely put him the NCO range if he was enlisted, but the AF is known for being officer heavy so I do not think that can be completely counted out.

[Carabas]

I like the Ultimate version of Falcon. The Movie version is based on him. I wish 616 falcon was more like that version.

Visually, perhaps. Conceptually, not even slightly.

Ultimate Falcon was first and foremost a scientist and explorer.

[Ghostwise]

i think they'd be better off doing a mini-series. and it should be spawned by someone having a very entertaining one-and-done story to tell about Sam. every character wasn't meant for an ongoing format. some characters are actually hurt by it. a good mini would do more for Sam than a prematurely cancelled ongoing (Marvel's m.o with several characters lately). learn from Moon Knight.

My impression was that Marvel was steering away from mini-series since those seldom sell well enough.