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  1. #301
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    I'm really proud of Kamala Kahn fandom for stepping into this debate to stand up against hate, bigotry and genocide, like they've been doing in San Francisco.

  2. #302
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazpocalapse View Post
    I find Inverted Doom no more credible than non-inverted Doom, but that is just my opinion.Was it ever explained how he went from being another person affected by the spell to the mustache twirling mastermind that manipulated her somehow while being under the same spell as most everyone else. House of M basically came about because of a bunch of random actions, Wanda goes nuts disassembles the Avengers asses( that is not a random action however it is a catalyst ). Magneto (who may or may have not been a construct of her mind appears and takes her to Genosha. Quicksilver gives his suggestion to Wanda. Heck i understand that Doom has basically become Mr. Dues Ex Machina but this just looks like we need to take the heat off Wanda so lets add more lazy writing to absolve the lazy writing that got Wanda in this to begin with.
    No one is denying how ill-crafted these stories were.
    My point was: Doom wasn't lying then in CC, and he wasn't lying now in Avengers World.
    The only difference is that in one case he didn't care at all about the people he had hurt and the damages he had caused, while in the other case he felt guilt and remorse over it.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tudors View Post
    Will she stand trial for attempted genocide?
    She shouldn't stand trial for attempted genocide because she didn't attempt genocide.

    She should stand trial for genocide because she committed genocide.

  4. #304
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    No one is denying how ill-crafted these stories were.
    My point was: Doom wasn't lying then in CC, and he wasn't lying now in Avengers World.
    The only difference is that in one case he didn't care at all about the people he had hurt and the damages he had caused, while in the other case he felt guilt and remorse over it.
    don't be absurd. of course he was lying. did you put him through a lie detector session during scarlet's trial?

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    No one is denying how ill-crafted these stories were.
    I deny how ill crafted the story was. It was a perfectly crafted story of a genocidal monster.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdaqiBeauty View Post
    He was scripting her every word, too? When does Wanda actually decide on her own dialogue?
    Don't you know what mind-control IS in the Marvel Universe ?
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Don't you know what mind-control IS in the Marvel Universe ?
    Yes, I do. He brought her hate bubbling to the surface, otherwise she would be walking like an automaton. These are HER feelings.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    don't be absurd. of course he was lying. did you put him through a lie detector session during scarlet's trial?
    Unless there's proof in-story that he was lying, you have no proof that he was lying, you just think it's more likely Wanda would have done it than that Doom would have mind-controlled her.

    But this is silly, because Wanda never in her entire history had any desire to see mutants gone, to stop being a mutant, or have "daddy" pay more attention to her. So since nothing she said is anything the proudly mutant Scarlet Witch would ever say, it can only be mind control.

    If you want to come up with another culprit than Doom, please go ahead and lobby the writers, but it has to be someone who actually makes sense as the culprit, not a great mutant hero like Wanda, who stood up for mutants when the X-Men and Xavier were ashamed of being mutants.

    Quote Originally Posted by just another user View Post
    I deny how ill crafted the story was. It was a perfectly crafted story of a genocidal monster.
    Your standards for a well-crafted story are very low. I'd enjoy a story of a hero turning into a genocidal monster, but not a story where a hero becomes a genocidal monster in the course of one page, with a speech full of things she never said or believed in her 40 year history. That's a really, really badly crafted story. Well-crafted stories should show how a character comes to hate her own people after 40 years of loving who and what she is.

    Quote Originally Posted by IdaqiBeauty View Post
    Yes, I do. He brought her hate bubbling to the surface, otherwise she would be walking like an automaton. These are HER feelings.
    No, mind-control in the Marvel Universe basically just switches you from "good" to "evil." Characters under mind control routinely say and do the opposite of what they believe when they're not mind-controlled. You're thinking of hypnotism, which brings people's repressed feelings to the surface; that's different from comic book style mind control.
    Last edited by gurkle; 02-03-2015 at 12:58 PM.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    don't be absurd. of course he was lying.
    He expressed remorse and guilt over what he did in AW, all the while being inverted.
    The theory that he's been lying all along ended with that issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    did you put him through a lie detector session during scarlet's trial?
    No, it's just that I've read the issues I'm talking about.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdaqiBeauty View Post
    He was scripting her every word, too? When does Wanda actually decide on her own dialogue?
    You do know that writers write dialogue for fictional characters. A work of fiction has no agency at all. Unless you live in a different reality from everyone else.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdaqiBeauty View Post
    Yes, I do. He brought her hate bubbling to the surface, otherwise she would be walking like an automaton. These are HER feelings.
    So do you read the minds of fictional characters now?

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    So do you read the minds of fictional characters now?
    I just know how mind control and hypnotism work at Marvel, and I just Wanda to get off Victor's back.

  13. #313
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    No, it's just that I've read the issues I'm talking about.
    if doom wants to testify on scarlet's behalf at her rightful trial for the genocide of the mutant race, then he is more than welcome to.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    if doom wants to testify on scarlet's behalf at her rightful trial for the genocide of the mutant race, then he is more than welcome to.
    Where does all this trial talk come from anyway, is what I don't get. How many horrible crimes are there in this universe, and how few trials?

    As a founding father of the Marvel Universe explained, most of the horrible things people do in this universe aren't even crimes under the legal system (which is one reason why superheroes, not cops, are needed to fight them):



    Wanda's exile from the comics is a worse punishment (particularly for her fans who never got to read about her for years and years) than most heroes turned bad, or villains, ever get.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by just another user View Post
    I deny how ill crafted the story was. It was a perfectly crafted story of a genocidal monster.
    There was very little craft involved when you conveniently don't include a major reveal of the story you are using as a source, which is Darker Than Scarlet. Immortus was behind her behavior because he was planning to attack the Time Lords.

    There was no transition in Bendis's story to even justify her sudden attack. That would have been a "perfectly crafted story" The only trigger was Jan mentioning her children. Wanda had come to terms with that long ago, even after Agatha had her memory tampered with.

    BTW, whoever said a while back that Agatha had been dead for centuries better read some Fantastic Four where she was introduced and was Franklin's nanny during the Lee/Kirby years.

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