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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    No it doesn't, it didn't add Doom to all of those things or show him telling Wanda to go around doing that stuff or utter "No More Mutants". Mind controlled? Wanda sought out Doom than ditched him the moment she got what she wanted.
    Interesting reading of the events.
    Doom himself confirmed the possession though, on panel. The SW had no memories of the events because of that very reason: she wasn't in the driver seat...
    Another fact you ignore to write stuffs like "she ditched him the moment she got what she wanted"... Oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    It's also been years, many years. Adding in a manipulator is a disgusting retcon and wont satisfy any X-Fan as they will all know it's a poor attempt to whitewash something Wanda did of her own free will.
    It's a common trend that writers pander more to the fans of the characters than to their detractors...
    Nothing shocking here.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  2. #512
    Embrace the fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiochene View Post
    ... you do actually know that what you said in your post is incorrect and Cyclops did not have everyone killed, right?
    I think I get it, now. The two of you don't seem to be in synch over the definitions of "depowered", "entire", "having someone killed" and "everyone".

  3. #513
    BANNED ROSA13's Avatar
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    the more recent time when the Apocalypse Twins convinced her it was a good idea to tear every last mutant on earth out of their homes. Not the clearest thinker, our Wanda.Vision, her ex-husband, wasn't having it. Seeing as she was at least somewhat responsible for Avengers Disassembled, that's perfectly understandable.But I can't think of a single mutant who's looked at her the same way since that horrific event. So in the first major arc of Uncanny Avengers (which only wrapped up completely with #22), the Apocalypse Twins were dead-set on transporting every last mutant man, woman, and child off the Earth, to some distant planet to form a new society, far away from the abysmal future in store for them. To wit, they recruited Scarlet Witch to use her crazy reality-warping powers to make this happen. they talk her into it. She agrees to this plan. Not only is segregation the antithesis of everything Charles Xavier worked for, but this elitist "I'm doing it for the greater good" thinking is what's gotten her into trouble before. Still with me? Wanda gets in cozy with the Apocalypse Twins— all the while, plotting to betray them. There's just one problem: they anticipate this. They anticipate that she's going to double-cross them, and work out a way to negate it. Their plan goes off so well, the Avengers need time travel to fix things. So the Avengers show up again (several hours earlier this time) and stop the Scarlet Witch from carrying out her crazy plan... with no repercussions at all. No blame, no "what the hell were you thinking", no "we're gonna have a serious talk about this later". Now I'm not saying she deserves to die. Far from it. She just needs to be removed from any position of influence over anything else. At all. The fact that she means well doesn't counter the damage she's done, nor the aftershocks of what she's done. She's unreliable, unstable, she works poorly with others (or rather, others work poorly with her), and her powers do more damage than good

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    No it doesn't, Wanda still did all of that on her own. Wanda even reveals in her dialogue that she hates her father and Mutants and chooses "No More Mutants" to punish him.
    Nope. Wouldn't have happened without Doom manipulation and the Life Force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    You're trying to pass off her sins, that Marvel APPROVED of, onto Doctor Doom and act like it okay when it isn't.
    No one says it's ok.
    It's just a fact everyone acknowledged and deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    We saw Wanda seek out Doom, we saw her get the Life Force, we saw her kill the Avengers on her own free will, we saw her make House of M, and we saw her berate her father before uttering "No More Humans" to punish him as she knows that he loves Mutantkind above all.
    So she gets the Life Force AND kills the Avengers of her own free will...? See, right there is why I doubt you've read the actual issues we are talking about.
    The Life Force didn't work that way. At all.
    It seems like you've just read HoM and the rest of your knowledge was gleaned out of unreliable internet sources or hearsays...
    I'd like to believe otherwise but you're not proving this feeling wrong, for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    Your deflecting is pointless, this isn't a Cyclops topic. Trying to make Wanda's genocide look "okay" by trashing Cyclops? Strawman. Not to mention that Cyclops had nothing to do with what Wanda did of her own free will.

    If you want a Cyclops topic than make one, stop trying to deflect from Wanda because you cannot realistically defend Genocide.

    Also... "Wanda Accepted Responsibility"? You're kidding right. Where is her trial? Why isn't she in prison or getting mental health help? Oh right.

    When Marvel finally put her on trial is when it will end as she should answer for what she did.
    Yes she did, back in CC.
    If she ever gets a trial, she will be proven innocent AGAIN. I wouldn't mind that at all, but truth is, it's probably not gonna happen, Marvel has moved on with the Decimation storyline, both in-universe and with its management...
    Last edited by People Of The Earth; 02-05-2015 at 11:38 AM.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  5. #515
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    if you all are so confident in doom's alibi, then you'll have no problem with him testifying on behalf of the defence.

  6. #516
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Nope. Wouldn't have happened without Doom manipulation and the Life Force.



    No one says it's ok.
    It's just a fact everyone acknowledged and deal with.



    So she gets the Life Force AND kills the Avengers of her own free will...? See, right there is why I doubt you've read the actual issues we are talking about.
    The Life Force didn't work that way. At all.
    It seems like you've just read HoM and the rest of your knowledge was gleaned out of unreliable internet sources or hearsays...
    I'd like to believe otherwise but you're not proving this feeling wrong, for now.



    Yes she did, back in CC.
    If she ever gets a trial, she will be proven innocent AGAIN. I wouldn't mind that at all, but truth is, it's probably not gonna happen, Marvel has moved on with the Decimation storyline, both in-universe and with its management...
    Well, the Phoenix doenst work that way either, but given the existance of AvX, then there you go................................................ ....

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    if you all are so confident in doom's alibi, then you'll have no problem with him testifying on behalf of the defence.
    I'm fine with Doom testifying, he's kind of the main protagonist since CC.
    I just doubt he will accept any court summoning him to show up. I bet he would come unannounced instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    Well, the Phoenix doenst work that way either, but given the existance of AvX, then there you go................................................ ....
    Except I'm not trying to deny AvX ever happened, or how the Phoenix acted during this event...
    That's that, until it's retconned away eventually it's canon.
    I can understand people saying CC was a clumsy event with a lousy retcon, but to flat out ignore what actually happened in this event to shape up one's argument...is something else imo.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  8. #518
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    Wanda has no choice, but to give the twins what they wanted. They had Wonder Man in prison and the only way out for them and save the world from the twins was what she did. She didn't exactly gave them what they wanted. She in fact, put the heroes in their path so they can be able to stop the Apocalypse twins. If anything, she did save the world. Here is a quote of her saying to Wonder Man.

    "We're going to do what they want. I'll bring the mutants here. But not the way they think. Not into those chambers. As a free army. An army of mutants banded as one... And together, we're all going to take these monsters down."

    And they did. They saved the world and brought Rogue and Scarlet Witch back. There is a reason why she's been an Avengers for almost all her life. Not only cause she's unstable, but rather cause she's a hero.

  9. #519
    Top Class Breeding ;) Mr. Brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnetoWasRight View Post
    Wanda has no choice, but to give the twins what they wanted. They had Wonder Man in prison and the only way out for them and save the world from the twins was what she did. She didn't exactly gave them what they wanted. She in fact, put the heroes in their path so they can be able to stop the Apocalypse twins. If anything, she did save the world. Here is a quote of her saying to Wonder Man.

    "We're going to do what they want. I'll bring the mutants here. But not the way they think. Not into those chambers. As a free army. An army of mutants banded as one... And together, we're all going to take these monsters down."

    And they did. They saved the world and brought Rogue and Scarlet Witch back. There is a reason why she's been an Avengers for almost all her life. Not only cause she's unstable, but rather cause she's a hero.
    Wanda did nothing but exacerbate the problem. She could have said no, let Simon be killed, have a heroes death. She instead fell right into the plan of people who can predict the damn future and to make her failure more hilarious, KANG, enemy of the Avengers, solved the problem. Wanda was dead by that time. Lol, being used (HoM/Apocalypse Now) and disappeared (10years/dead) like as usual, only to have the X-men fix her shizz again ^_^ (Hope/Sunfire and Havok stopping Kang).
    CANON: "Cyclops, the most important mutant in 616" - The scientific community of the 616

  10. #520
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    she threw all mutants in their path! children even! comforted by the assurance from wonder man that the x-men would step in to protect the helpless from those psychopaths. but what does he know about it anyway!

  11. #521
    Top Class Breeding ;) Mr. Brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    she threw all mutants in their path! children even! comforted by the assurance from wonder man that the x-men would step in to protect the helpless from those psychopaths. but what does he know about it anyway!
    *Soothing Shh* Aces. He's gone now. We don't need to worry about him anymore.
    CANON: "Cyclops, the most important mutant in 616" - The scientific community of the 616

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brightside View Post
    Wanda did nothing but exacerbate the problem. She could have said no, let Simon be killed, have a heroes death. She instead fell right into the plan of people who can predict the damn future and to make her failure more hilarious, KANG, enemy of the Avengers, solved the problem. Wanda was dead by that time. Lol, being used (HoM/Apocalypse Now) and disappeared (10years/dead) like as usual, only to have the X-men fix her shizz again ^_^ (Hope/Sunfire and Havok stopping Kang).
    She did saved the world, bought Rogue and herself back, and the twins were gone. Everything went back to normal. What more than that you want from a hero. Yes, she was dying while teleporting them. AND after that... they went to deal with Red Skull.

  13. #523
    Top Class Breeding ;) Mr. Brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnetoWasRight View Post
    She did saved the world, bought Rogue and herself back, and the twins were gone. Everything went back to normal. What more than that you want from a hero. Yes, she was dying while teleporting them. AND after that... they went to deal with Red Skull.
    She didn't do it. Kang's chrono corps sent Wolverine back. He/They were the heroes. Oddly enough the world was saved by STOPPING Wanda. Cap was right to try to stop her from being on the team, too bad he flaked.
    CANON: "Cyclops, the most important mutant in 616" - The scientific community of the 616

  14. #524
    BANNED ROSA13's Avatar
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    Acts of Courage - A trial is good I could respect her we are all responsible for what happens to us in life .. it would be fair for the dead mutants--(even if the court says she is innocent OR NOT ) what if the guilt and remorse come to haunt her ?

  15. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brightside View Post
    Wanda did nothing but exacerbate the problem. She could have said no, let Simon be killed, have a heroes death...
    Ok, full stop.
    She's not X-Force material, she's not wired that way. No way she would ditch a teammate like that, if she could help it.
    I thought you said you were a Wanda fan...?
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

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