Who is DC more protective of? Superman, or Batman?

[DS1]

We know DC considers these two it's most important characters, and with it comes the risk of the favored characters getting absurd wins over other characters. But is one more protected than the other?

In my opinion, yes, and it's Batman. Superman might be overpowered, but Batman's got a long history of convenient PIS and jobber aura when fighting much more powerful characters, including Superman himself. DC's need for Batman to be able to hang in with the supercrowd ironically makes him more of a superman than Superman.

I've heard more stories of absurd Batman victories than Superman ones. Has Superman at full-strenght ever had any silly wins against anyone even more ridiculously powerful than he's ever been?

[Den]

I tend to agree that Batman has just as much 'writer's fiat' protection as Superman, if not more. It isn't always DC's fault though. Some Batfans (Not all, nor even the majority) are very vocal in their fandom and will not tolerate anyone out showing him. That's true for a section of any character's fandom, but since Bats has such a LARGE fandom, his extremists are in greater showing too.

I remember when Johns had Hal Jordan actually land a punch on Batman, and some batfans went NUTS about how it wasn't possible. Hal didn't knock him out, he just landed a punch, and even that was too much for some to accept. It was in Green Lantern Rebirth, Hal's own comic... he was therefore, the star of it. But cries of favoritism went up as if the title wouldn't give a clue that yea, this might be Hal's story

So I can see why some DC writers would be a bit nervous about rattling the cages in some areas.

That said, Batfans also include some truly awesome people who will happily tell you the best creative teams, relate to you lore about obscure 3rd tier villains, and be happy to introduce you the flavor of Gotham they'd think you'd like. Many of them dislike "Batgod" as much as the next reader, and what they love about Bruce include his mortality, flaws, and failures.

I'm not a Batfan myself (I prefer Nightwing) but I think for every really over the top Mary sue story he's had, he's had at least 5 awesome ones that fit very nicely indeed.

[Starchild]

I honestly look at all Batfans in a bad light now. And to answer the OP, they're protective over Batman the most. They don't care for Superman anymore.

I tend to agree that Batman has just as much 'writer's fiat' protection as Superman, if not more. It isn't always DC's fault though. Some Batfans (Not all, nor even the majority) are very vocal in their fandom and will not tolerate anyone out showing him. That's true for a section of any character's fandom, but since Bats has such a LARGE fandom, his extremists are in greater showing too.

I remember when Johns had Hal Jordan actually land a punch on Batman, and some batfans went NUTS about how it wasn't possible. Hal didn't knock him out, he just landed a punch, and even that was too much for some to accept. It was in Green Lantern Rebirth, Hal's own comic... he was therefore, the star of it. But cries of favoritism went up as if the title wouldn't give a clue that yea, this might be Hal's story

So I can see why some DC writers would be a bit nervous about rattling the cages in some areas.

That said, Batfans also include some truly awesome people who will happily tell you the best creative teams, relate to you lore about obscure 3rd tier villains, and be happy to introduce you the flavor of Gotham they'd think you'd like. Many of them dislike "Batgod" as much as the next reader, and what they love about Bruce include his mortality, flaws, and failures.

I'm not a Batfan myself (I prefer Nightwing) but I think for every really over the top Mary sue story he's had, he's had at least 5 awesome ones that fit very nicely indeed.

[The Darknight Detective]

I honestly look at all Batfans in a bad light now.

You do? Interesting...

[The Darknight Detective]

I tend to agree that Batman has just as much 'writer's fiat' protection as Superman, if not more. It isn't always DC's fault though. Some Batfans (Not all, nor even the majority) are very vocal in their fandom and will not tolerate anyone out showing him. That's true for a section of any character's fandom, but since Bats has such a LARGE fandom, his extremists are in greater showing too..

IOW, the more popular a character is, the more likely he will be portrayed in the best light.

[Ascended]

I tend to agree that Batman has just as much 'writer's fiat' protection as Superman, if not more. It isn't always DC's fault though. Some Batfans (Not all, nor even the majority) are very vocal in their fandom and will not tolerate anyone out showing him. That's true for a section of any character's fandom, but since Bats has such a LARGE fandom, his extremists are in greater showing too.

I remember when Johns had Hal Jordan actually land a punch on Batman, and some batfans went NUTS about how it wasn't possible. Hal didn't knock him out, he just landed a punch, and even that was too much for some to accept. It was in Green Lantern Rebirth, Hal's own comic... he was therefore, the star of it. But cries of favoritism went up as if the title wouldn't give a clue that yea, this might be Hal's story

So I can see why some DC writers would be a bit nervous about rattling the cages in some areas.

That said, Batfans also include some truly awesome people who will happily tell you the best creative teams, relate to you lore about obscure 3rd tier villains, and be happy to introduce you the flavor of Gotham they'd think you'd like. Many of them dislike "Batgod" as much as the next reader, and what they love about Bruce include his mortality, flaws, and failures.

I'm not a Batfan myself (I prefer Nightwing) but I think for every really over the top Mary sue story he's had, he's had at least 5 awesome ones that fit very nicely indeed.

This sounds about right to me. DC certainly prefers Batman over Superman, and Didio himself has admitted that he doesnt really get Superman as a character. I think the company is protective of both franchises, but Batman has, for the last twenty or thirty years, generally had better creative teams, a larger role in Events, and more titles, not to mention more cartoons and movies, and therefore more toys and related merchandise.

[Nite-Wing]

They aren't protective of Batman at all they do whatever they want with his character now partly because they realize Batman can fit in a lot of genres now.
if they were protective of Batman they wouldn't let someone like Johns consistently try to downplay his character so much

[daBronzeBomma]

Considering that Batman's meteoric rise from clear-cut #2 to undisputed #1 started with his character pooping all over Superman in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS (and then having the effects of that non-canon story leak into the canon Post-CoIE stories, leaving the casual fan thinking that Batman can whip out kryptonite anything and Superman is too stupid/weak-hearted to ever lift a finger against his so-call "friend") ....

Wait, how is this even a serious question again?

It's Batman. Batman is DC's Golden Boy, and has officially been so since 1989 (with a 3-year ramp-up before that starting in 1986).

[Starchild]

You do? Interesting...

They bought it on themselves really.

[Powerboy]

I tend to agree that Batman has just as much 'writer's fiat' protection as Superman, if not more. It isn't always DC's fault though. Some Batfans (Not all, nor even the majority) are very vocal in their fandom and will not tolerate anyone out showing him. That's true for a section of any character's fandom, but since Bats has such a LARGE fandom, his extremists are in greater showing too.

I remember when Johns had Hal Jordan actually land a punch on Batman, and some batfans went NUTS about how it wasn't possible. Hal didn't knock him out, he just landed a punch, and even that was too much for some to accept. It was in Green Lantern Rebirth, Hal's own comic... he was therefore, the star of it. But cries of favoritism went up as if the title wouldn't give a clue that yea, this might be Hal's story

So I can see why some DC writers would be a bit nervous about rattling the cages in some areas.

That said, Batfans also include some truly awesome people who will happily tell you the best creative teams, relate to you lore about obscure 3rd tier villains, and be happy to introduce you the flavor of Gotham they'd think you'd like. Many of them dislike "Batgod" as much as the next reader, and what they love about Bruce include his mortality, flaws, and failures.

I'm not a Batfan myself (I prefer Nightwing) but I think for every really over the top Mary sue story he's had, he's had at least 5 awesome ones that fit very nicely indeed.

In fairness, unless Hal's speed was being augmented by the ring, that was stretching credibility. But then, almost every time Batman gets one up on Superman or Green lantern or any character of that level (except in things like detective work), it's sheer nonsense.

I think that, ever since DKR and Batman's explosion of popularity, there's been a DKR-like animosity and competitiveness between Batman and other characters. Unfortunately, in any sort of hero gathering, the low level characters tend to be pushed to the extreme of their abilities and the high level characters get powered down and dumbed down. That's as true of Captain America as of Batman.

But I do think DC is more likely to be protective of Batman and allow Superman to be put into more humiilating situations. I saw one cartoon where kryptonite was used and Superman was captured by the League of Assassins, bound and led around on a leash by Talia al Ghul until Batman saved him. True Superman later saved Batman but that was more *poof* it happens as opposed to minutes of character humiliation.

I suspect this is a sort of writing descendant of DKR which has sort of defined how Superman can be presented and, sometimes, degraded in a way I think they won't do to Batman.

Now someone may well show me something where similar things have been done to Batman. It may be because Batman's concept is that he's just a highly trained guy, there isn't the expectations that one has with Superman.

Personally, the one thing that irks me is that, since around the mid-1980s, we think in terms of Superman and Batman as existing in an adversarial situation or at least conflicting. That was fine for a while but I'd prefer we see them as best friends again who we don't even think about things like one being favored or them being at each others' throats.

[True Herald]

IOW, the more popular a character is, the more likely he will be portrayed in the best light.

Popularity Power

[Blacksun]

They aren't protective of Batman at all they do whatever they want with his character now partly because they realize Batman can fit in a lot of genres now.
if they were protective of Batman they wouldn't let someone like Johns consistently try to downplay his character so much

well johns is one of the guys that has powers to downplay him. Johns also have powers to up characters like barry, hal and aquaman

[Doctor Cosmic]

DC has no clue what to do with Superman. Jeph Loeb's tweak way back in the early 2000s began a shameful trend of hemming and hawing about Superman's origin, his role in the DCU, and how he should be portrayed.

Just look at the list: Loeb/Birthright/Infinite Crisis/OYL/John's Action run/Secret Origin/New 52

Seven reboots/tweaks whatever you want to call them in a decade. Only Birthright and Morrison's opening Action arc was was truly great, followed by Up, Up, And Away. Secret Origins had some great moments, but was hindered by its lateness (both production wise and timing-wise within the overall arc Johns was doing) and its bizarre adherence to the Donnerverse. The less we say about Loeb's admittedly fun but failed retcon the better.

Batman, on the other hand, has had little to no tweaks to his origin or core characteristics outside of what IC did with Joe Chill. Batman and GL (no longer the cash cow it used to be) was virtually unchanged until Snyder's recent and for some reason lauded Zero Year revamp.

And that's just comics...look at Hobo of Steel and the animated films for how uncertain DC is of who and what Superman should be.

Batman sadly surpassed Superman as the premiere character of DC Comics, and I say this as a HUGE fan of the character without whom I'd never have become the devoted comic book fan I am.

[twobit]

Superman. DC really controlled the new52 version like crazy. Kept changing stories, driving talent off the books, forcing WW and Supes together, and butchering Lois. Only Morrison, Johns, and now Synder and Pak can get away with anything with Superman. Everyone else...we saw everything before hand

[manofsteel1979]

I'd say DC is more PROTECTIVE of Batman, as he is their cash cow, and has been for nearly 30 years. The problem with Superman is you've had people in charge since at least 2003 (and some could argue much further back than that) that don't get or particularly LIKE the character, leading to confusion, indecision and extreme editorial interference. As Doctor Cosmic has said above, just look at all the origin revamps, tweeks, reboots etc we had in just the time between 2001-2011.

I've often wondered if Superman wasn't the cash cow he is in licensing (that "S" shield is on EVERYTHING it seems) thus important to Warner Bros' bottom line, that the current regime at DC would even publish Superman comics, or that Superman would have even been a part of the New 52. I get the feeling from most of the powers that be at DC that they don't see publishing Superman comics as a privillage and a joy, but as almost a burden and taking up valuable publishing slots that could be used to make more Batman books. However, since WB makes money off that "S" shield and the iconography on merchandise and in other media, DC has to publish new Superman material. Thus, he is more prone to more micro managing than any other character in DC's canon, as he is torn between editorial interferrence by people who are always trying to "fix" him on one hand, and corporate pressure to keep the Superman brand viable to keep selling Superman t-shirts and PJ's.


Thankfully, right now we've got some good creators turning out good stuff and creatively Superman is doing better than he has in a long time. However, sadly recent history shows that it's just a matter of time before that changes again. I just don't trust the current brain trust at DC to do right by Superman.

Don't get me wrong...I like Batman, and have no issue with Batman fans. I just find it sad that the character that built DC and the Superhero genre in total doesn't get more respect from the people that own him.