Superman & Wonder Woman #8 (SPOILERS)

[Vanguard-01]

Gosh that just highlights the silliness of the disposable armor thing even more. What a waste! Also, the timing doesn't matter. Originally, Superman and Wonder Woman went for armor when they had no idea if Doomsday would attack again at any moment, so anytime is a good time. At the very least, additional precautions should have been taken or other armor sought. For example, if Kryptonians benefit from being supercharged with solar energy, find a way to get some of that (maybe from the contraption Superman used to heal).

No denying the disposable armor is silly.

Diana took on Doomsday with nothing but her native power and held her own admirably. Superman beat him without needing to resort to tech. At the end of the day? What does it really matter? They thought they needed additional assistance against Doomsday. Doomsday attacks. No additional assistance is available. They fight like heroes anyway. They win the day. Turns out they didn't need the assistance after all.

I really don't see a problem. Personally I don't like the idea of Superman feeling like he needs to run for his "Anti-Doomsday Suit" every time Doomsday appears. Ditto for Diana. That's Batman's shtick because he NEEDS that shtick. Superman and Wonder Woman are the two most powerful heroes in the DCU. I prefer to see them show everyone that THEY can defeat any threat. Not that they can.....only when they brought their tech.

[Silvanus]

So how does that make sense? Wonder Woman didn't change, but her adversary did into something even more formidable, and yet she fares better? Doesn't seem logical to me. Also puzzling is the whole strategy here. Like, what ever happened to getting and using Olympian made weapons and armor for a fight with Doomsday?

Technically, I suppose she did change, since all of this is happening after she became god of war. Whether that affected her melee fighting ability (rather than just giving her new powers, like telepahtically persuasding soldiers) I don't know.

It could have, but maybe not. This might just a case of "scaling up" characters' powers to fit in different books. Lobdell writes a very powerful Superman (able to bench how many times the weight of the earth), so Wonder Woman should be similarly powerful in his book. I think expecting powers to be logically consistent across books probably rarely leads to much happiness--and it could lead to bad writing, if it leads writers to spend more energy rationalizign everything and being consistent then telling good stories. Different people care about different things, though; if some have a problem with this kind of inconsistency, I don't blame them.

[misslane]

I really don't see a problem. Personally I don't like the idea of Superman feeling like he needs to run for his "Anti-Doomsday Suit" every time Doomsday appears. Ditto for Diana. That's Batman's shtick because he NEEDS that shtick. Superman and Wonder Woman are the two most powerful heroes in the DCU. I prefer to see them show everyone that THEY can defeat any threat. Not that they can.....only when they brought their tech.

I think if one is dealing with one specific threat, especially one that's known to be more challenging, then being properly prepared based on previous precedents is more an issue of consistency for me. As it stands now, Superman and Wonder Woman getting that armor from Hephaestus has become sillier and sillier ever since it happened. At first, it was okay because it was sensible to get prepared for Doomsday, but then the armor is used with Faora and Zod instead of Doomsday, and when it is used it has a strange one use design. I think having armor that absorbs blows then allows one to blast it back is fine, so making that burst destroy the armor after every use seems inefficient. Now, when strategizing with the League about facing Doomsday again, there's no mention of armor or other tools that could be helpful. No discussion of the Phantom Zone, Doom's Door, or solar power ups. I guess I get frustrated seeing something made more difficult and dangerous than perhaps it needs to be.

[Razor Tiara]

Gosh that just highlights the silliness of the disposable armor thing even more. What a waste! Also, the timing doesn't matter. Originally, Superman and Wonder Woman went for armor when they had no idea if Doomsday would attack again at any moment, so anytime is a good time. At the very least, additional precautions should have been taken or other armor sought. For example, if Kryptonians benefit from being supercharged with solar energy, find a way to get some of that (maybe from the contraption Superman used to heal).

It wasn't a waste. That armour was a cool, one time only thing and I loved it.

[Razor Tiara]

This book feels like Superman: Arkham Asylum, you know like the Batman videogames where he encounters most of his rogues gallery in the same night? We also have WW in it, and she provides all the things you mentioned while at the same time the writer is trying to appease her fans by calling her the best soldier and other such fanservice. Using Zod and Faora after the MoS movie is a gimmick too, but it wouldnt have been so bad if they were used well.

What would have been ideal is if they used a secondary SM villain, with a secondary WW villain teaming up against them. Or maybe a villain of the month kind of book with villains from both galleries making appearences.

Right now, it's Superman:Arkham Asylum (which by itself means the plot is a horrible mess that is trying to facilitate all these villains in the same story), and "ssssh WW fans, she's so cool, she beat up Zod and kicked X and punched Y. She's cool you see, sssshh..."

I disagree, because we also got Doom's Doorway, Angle Man, Blue Snowman, the beginnings of Purple Ray technology and an Amazon that's not evil in Superman/Wonder Woman and that's far more Wonder centric than the stuff we're getting in her regular title.

[Vanguard-01]

I think if one is dealing with one specific threat, especially one that's known to be more challenging, then being properly prepared based on previous precedents is more an issue of consistency for me. As it stands now, Superman and Wonder Woman getting that armor from Hephaestus has become sillier and sillier ever since it happened. At first, it was okay because it was sensible to get prepared for Doomsday, but then the armor is used with Faora and Zod instead of Doomsday, and when it is used it has a strange one use design. I think having armor that absorbs blows then allows one to blast it back is fine, so making that burst destroy the armor after every use seems inefficient. Now, when strategizing with the League about facing Doomsday again, there's no mention of armor or other tools that could be helpful. No discussion of the Phantom Zone, Doom's Door, or solar power ups. I guess I get frustrated seeing something made more difficult and dangerous than perhaps it needs to be.

Oh, believe me, I get that.

It all comes back to that age-old fan question of "Well why doesn't [insert hero's name her] do/use that ALL the time?"

Why doesn't Superman go for a quick Sun-Dip EVERY time a powerful bad guy shows up? Seeing as he actually CAN go from the Earth to the Sun and back again in a reasonable amount of time, you'd think he'd just do it all the time. Sure, he CAN beat, say, Mongul at his usual level of power. But why wouldn't he just go for a Sun Dip and take Mongul down quickly, rather than run the risk of a pitched battle that could harm innocent people in the crossfire?

Why doesn't Diana just uncuff and go God Mode in every single battle? Once again, she's more powerful and can likely win most of her battles faster and more efficiently. So why doesn't she? Now, in this case, Azz gave us an explanation: God Mode causes Diana to lose control and go berserk. Not to mention her increased power is crazy unbridled and harder to control. Thus? She doesn't want to go God Mode too often because there's a chance she may hurt people she doesn't want to hurt in addition to the bad guy.

It all comes down to what's good for the story. The armor was a sensible precaution, but it ended up being unnecessary. Also? The story just seems more impressive if no one can say "Oh, Diana only held her own against Doomsday because she was wearing that armor!" Or "Oh, Superman can't beat Doomsday without that armor!" This fight does a better job of showcasing how powerful these characters are to everyone if they're able to win without any outside assistance.

[misslane]

It all comes down to what's good for the story. The armor was a sensible precaution, but it ended up being unnecessary. Also? The story just seems more impressive if no one can say "Oh, Diana only held her own against Doomsday because she was wearing that armor!" Or "Oh, Superman can't beat Doomsday without that armor!" This fight does a better job of showcasing how powerful these characters are to everyone if they're able to win without any outside assistance.

I guess, when I look back at how the armor has been used in the narrative thus far, it seems like a clunky plot device. Every time it was used, it wasn't really necessary. Superman and Wonder Woman could have fought Zod and Faora without special protection and nothing would have changed. Since the armor isn't key to the story and ultimately isn't necessary, then did it ever really need to exist at all? All it accomplished was getting Superman to meet Wonder Woman's family while setting up Apollo's behind-the-scenes maneuvering later. Did they really need the armor as an excuse to get from Point A to Point B?

[Blacksun]

I guess, when I look back at how the armor has been used in the narrative thus far, it seems like a clunky plot device. Every time it was used, it wasn't really necessary. Superman and Wonder Woman could have fought Zod and Faora without special protection and nothing would have changed. Since the armor isn't key to the story and ultimately isn't necessary, then did it ever really need to exist at all? All it accomplished was getting Superman to meet Wonder Woman's family while setting up Apollo's behind-the-scenes maneuvering later. Did they really need the armor as an excuse to get from Point A to Point B?

well they destroy the armor without any reason before a ocasion that they would really need that

I disagree, because we also got Doom's Doorway, Angle Man, Blue Snowman, the beginnings of Purple Ray technology and an Amazon that's not evil in Superman/Wonder Woman and that's far more Wonder centric than the stuff we're getting in her regular title.

nothing impressive, majority of people has no idea who angle man or blue snowman is

[Lax]

I guess, when I look back at how the armor has been used in the narrative thus far, it seems like a clunky plot device. Every time it was used, it wasn't really necessary. Superman and Wonder Woman could have fought Zod and Faora without special protection and nothing would have changed. Since the armor isn't key to the story and ultimately isn't necessary, then did it ever really need to exist at all? All it accomplished was getting Superman to meet Wonder Woman's family while setting up Apollo's behind-the-scenes maneuvering later. Did they really need the armor as an excuse to get from Point A to Point B?

Keep in mind, we know far more now than what Superman & Wonder Woman did at the time they asked Hephaestus to make it.

[Razor Tiara]

I guess, when I look back at how the armor has been used in the narrative thus far, it seems like a clunky plot device. Every time it was used, it wasn't really necessary. Superman and Wonder Woman could have fought Zod and Faora without special protection and nothing would have changed. Since the armor isn't key to the story and ultimately isn't necessary, then did it ever really need to exist at all? All it accomplished was getting Superman to meet Wonder Woman's family while setting up Apollo's behind-the-scenes maneuvering later. Did they really need the armor as an excuse to get from Point A to Point B?

They needed the armor because it initially gave them the upper hand in dealing with an artificially empowered opponent. Besides as was implied by Strife, the hand holding was romantic.

[Razor Tiara]

well they destroy the armor without any reason before a ocasion that they would really need that



nothing impressive, majority of people has no idea who angle man or blue snowman is

We as Wonder Woman fans know and that's enough. It's not like we're getting classic Wonder Woman rogues elsewhere, or Diana giving pep talks to young girls or an explanation for God of War powers either, for that matter. Soule is fleshing out Azz's own concepts and it's refreshing to see.

[misslane]

They needed the armor because it initially gave them the upper hand in dealing with an artificially empowered opponent. Besides as was implied by Strife, the hand holding was romantic.

But that's a contrivance of the plot. They could have gotten the upper hand just by being awesome, and if it actually was the key to their victory I'd think it was worth it. But they still lost, and it could have still given them that upper hand without requiring the contrivance of the armor being one use only and thus only useful for getting the upper hand once in one fight. What I'm saying, in other words, is that making the armor to use with Doomsday, then not using it with Doomsday, then contriving it to be one use only is clunky and contrived writing.

[Blacksun]

We as Wonder Woman fans know and that's enough. It's not like we're getting classic Wonder Woman rogues elsewhere, or Diana giving pep talks to young girls or an explanation for God of War powers either, for that matter. Soule is fleshing out Azz's own concepts and it's refreshing to see.

for me it's not enough, I don't have inferioty complex.
also Soule is getting ideas wrong from Azz, doing no justice in his book

[Dr. Poison]

well they destroy the armor without any reason before a ocasion that they would really need that



nothing impressive, majority of people has no idea who angle man or blue snowman is

The same can be said about Milan, Cassandra, and the First Born but I'd wager to say that more DC readers know who the Angle Man is than any of the first 3 due to how long the character has been around and the fact that he was part of Grodd's Secret Society of Super-Villains.

[Blacksun]

The same can be said about Milan, Cassandra, and the First Born but I'd wager to say that more DC readers know who the Angle Man is than any of the first 3 due to how long the character has been around and the fact that he was part of Grodd's Secret Society of Super-Villains.

but they are fleshed out characters, not just poor cameos without names.

and what about diana saving lois, lois has powers she didn't needed WW to save her. of course another superman writer has to screw on lois. aff. after unchained I would think they would learn their lesson