Superman & Wonder Woman #8 (SPOILERS)

[brettc1]

I thought the way Diana's God of War "powers" were portrayed was confusing. Being able to influence soldiers' minds isn't something that is going to impact war, because economic distress, religious or other differences, and political and economic forces are generally the roots of war; soldiers are just the pawns that those in power use to achieve their goals. I also think the idea that Diana would influence people to feel differently about war by manipulating their thoughts as directly as she did goes against the idea of free will and getting people to see the value in peace and war as a last resort on their own terms and not by force. So, hopefully, the way Diana used her "powers" in this instance was an exception, and her mission to redefine war as God of War will focus on the systemic causes of war as well as use methods which respect the value of persuasion through force of example and argument rather than the forced removal of free thought/will.

The real question is, if Wonder Woman can command absolute obedience from anyone in a military force, why are there still wars?

[Razor Tiara]

The real question is, if Wonder Woman can command absolute obedience from anyone in a military force, why are there still wars?

Maybe she can only influence soldiers in her immediate presence?

[Razor Tiara]

Okay, but I wasn't discussing Diana's reasons for her behavior. I was questioning your labeling Diana's dodging as "cool." It may be understandable and sympathetic, but cool? I don't see it.

That's fine, what's cool is relative. What may be cool to you, may not be cool to me and vice versa.

[brettc1]

Maybe she can only influence soldiers in her immediate presence?

Guess that will make the next fight with Zod and Faora pretty short.

It also raises some rather interesting theological questions. Such as "If Wonder Woman gives orders to a soldier who is a devout Hindu, does he have to obey her?"

[Lax]

Guess that will make the next fight with Zod and Faora pretty short.

It also raises some rather interesting theological questions. Such as "If Wonder Woman gives orders to a soldier who is a devout Hindu, does he have to obey her?"

I don't see how that would override her authority in and of itself, unless the Hindu god intervened on the followers behalf or something.

[brettc1]

I don't see how that would override her authority in and of itself, unless the Hindu god intervened on the followers behalf or something.

Which essentially means that the soldiers faith in war is paramount over any other considerations.

Oh, this is not going to end well with Steve. Or the rest of the world when they find out Diana can command the absolute obedience of their entire military structure at a whim.

You thought the US government freaked out in JLU when they found out about the League's space gun? Wait til they find out Wonder Woman can take control of every military asset on the planet any time she likes.

[Vanguard-01]

Which essentially means that the soldiers faith in war is paramount over any other considerations.

Oh, this is not going to end well with Steve. Or the rest of the world when they find out Diana can command the absolute obedience of their entire military structure at a whim.

You thought the US government freaked out in JLU when they found out about the League's space gun? Wait til they find out Wonder Woman can take control of every military asset on the planet any time she likes.

First and foremost, that scene in no way proves that Diana can "control" soldiers. She talked to him. She knew his name. She asked him to release Lois. He did so. Diana had already impressed him with her power and her ability to engender his trust. It's entirely possible that Diana didn't MAKE him do anything. She simply asked him to do something for her and he felt inclined to do it.

It's not like the soldier came to his senses a second later and started shouting about how the prisoner has escaped. All we know is Diana had a telepathic conversation with him and asked him to do something for her, which he did.

That's it. That's ALL that scene showed.

[misslane]

Oh come on, there's no need to overthink this. Hades can call upon the dead, Poseidon the fish and the god of war the soldiers.

It's a comic book, if the GoW's power was to influence war though economy and politics alone, there would be no cool action scenes where he/she summons an army and beats up some bad guy. It would be a global political drama by Michael Moore.

Diana herself said that the way she perceived her role as God of War, and what she wanted to do with it, was that it could be used to change perceptions about war. So, if her way of doing that is going to be just getting inside people's heads and rewiring them as easily as she did with the soldiers, not only would it be a short job to be done, it also raises troubling questions about free will. I find it interesting that you mention cool action scenes, because if Diana truly can just order armies to beat bad guys that suggests she could prevent or win every conflict in which she and her teammates -- or anyone person or country -- take part as easily as making one side drop their weapons and sign treaties. But then what? The war is won, but the causes of that war wouldn't have been addressed; so the cycle continues. Accordingly, the specific way Diana used her God of War powers in this issue is a shallow exposure to what the role means and not the insightful and intriguing peek at it that Dr. Poison described it as.

"I can feel war. I understand it. Why it happens, where it happens. [...] I want to change the idea, if I can. In some ways, I get to decide how the world sees war. If I can end it forever, and if I can't, maybe I can pass along some of my understanding. Make if more an an absolute last resort."

In short, I was not questioning that part of the powers one would have as God of War would be to influence soldiers' minds. What I was questioning was the value of the insight into Diana's new god of War status and abilities Dr. Poison praised Soule for providing. Being able to influence soldiers isn't surprising or insightful. Also, contrary to what Dr. Poison believes, it isn't that intriguing either when the real intriguing things about Diana's God of War role were set up earlier by Diana herself and for which ordering soldiers around is not a good illustration. At best, I can say that Dr. Poison would be right that it was insightful and intriguing, but only inasmuch as it exposed some disturbing implications (some of which brett has explained above) of Diana's new powers.

[Razor Tiara]

It's mucn better than swords that pop out of her bracelets like bread from a toaster.

[brettc1]

First and foremost, that scene in no way proves that Diana can "control" soldiers. She talked to him. She knew his name. She asked him to release Lois. He did so. Diana had already impressed him with her power and her ability to engender his trust. It's entirely possible that Diana didn't MAKE him do anything. She simply asked him to do something for her and he felt inclined to do it.

It's not like the soldier came to his senses a second later and started shouting about how the prisoner has escaped. All we know is Diana had a telepathic conversation with him and asked him to do something for her, which he did.

That's it. That's ALL that scene showed.

Diana: These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Soldier: They can go about their business. Move along.

Come on now. She gave him a command to release Lois. He did it. He didn't do it because he felt inclined, and he didn't ask to check her authority. He submitted to her authority absolutely. The fact none of the other troops there questioned this simply proves that her influence was working on all the soldiers present.





Sgt Melicore ignores his standing orders at the request of some civilian woman he has never met before and doesn't have the slightest bit of physical evidence for her authority to give him orders?

He is either a mind controlled puppet of her will or completely incompetent and disgrace to his position.

[Dr. Poison]

It's mucn better than swords that pop out of her bracelets like bread from a toaster.

I was thinking Poptarts myself. :P

[Vanguard-01]

Diana: These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Soldier: They can go about their business. Move along.

Come on now. She gave him a command to release Lois. He did it. He didn't do it because he felt inclined, and he didn't ask to check her authority. He submitted to her authority absolutely. The fact none of the other troops there questioned this simply proves that her influence was working on all the soldiers present.





Sgt Melicore ignores his standing orders at the request of some civilian woman he has never met before and doesn't have the slightest bit of physical evidence for her authority to give him orders?

He is either a mind controlled puppet of her will or completely incompetent and disgrace to his position.

He talked to her IN HIS MIND. He became aware that he was talking to WAR ITSELF. She KNEW HIS NAME. He somehow instinctively trusted her.

He knew damn well this wasn't an ordinary civilian woman.

And I don't see ANYTHING that proves his will was no longer his own. Same for the other troops. There is certainly nothing that PROVES he was mind controlled. YOU are simply jumping to that conclusion because it feeds your "Wonder Woman is ruined forever" mentality.

[DochaDocha]

Basically, I figured the line "I am War. I know all soldiers, and they know me," makes a slight distinction between mind control and powerful persuasiveness. Either way, it sure beats communing with forest animals.

That'd be funny if she and Aquadude had an argument, and both tried to lobby the Atlantean soldiers. Can't wait!

[misslane]

Basically, I figured the line "I am War. I know all soldiers, and they know me," makes a slight distinction between mind control and powerful persuasiveness. Either way, it sure beats communing with forest animals.

Given the more aggressive characterization of Wonder Woman throughout the New 52, it would be nice for her to be associated with something sweet and gentle.

[Vanguard-01]

Given the more aggressive characterization of Wonder Woman throughout the New 52, it would be nice for her to be associated with something sweet and gentle.

She's only more aggressive when Geoff Johns writes her.

In her own book? In SM/WW? She's kind, compassionate, and forgiving. She's only "aggressive" against enemies that threaten her, her friends, or the innocent in general.