Tom Brevoort on why Marvel won't undo One More Day

[boots]

I'm not saying it is easy, or that I yet have the answers... I'm mostly just identifying what I view as the problem. Maybe not the most constructive of criticism, but there you have it.

But I think I got distracted from another point I wamtednto focus on. The idea they should write things that are better for the character. This is a tough zone. Because, as we discussed, there is no definitive objective better. However, it is clear that they put aside artistic integrity to write their own stories. I dont always agree with an authors view of what is good for a character, but I can appreciate it, but I have no patience for soneone who ignores that ideal entirely.

yeah, likewise i was pointing out the creative’s dilemma without supplying a solution and just to get others to at least consider the minefield they need to navigate.

there are somewhat established and objective rules for writing (particularly in western fiction) that can provide guidelines. problems have occurred in serialised fiction when you try to change the status quo too much (especially in long running tv shows, though the simpsons navigated this arguably well) and problems pop up when you don’t (what we’re talking about here).

[boots]

I'm pretty sure I understood

that’s worrisome. sure you didn't skim?

it’s still up there if you want to reread.

[boots]

Snapchatting.

Who still posts on message boards?

what’s a message board?

man, DC are going to fall so far behind marvel when this new system gets up.

[AcroBrat]

yeah, likewise i was pointing out the creative’s dilemma without supplying a solution and just to get others to at least consider the minefield they need to navigate.

there are somewhat established and objective rules for writing (particularly in western fiction) that can provide guidelines. problems have occurred in serialised fiction when you try to change the status quo too much (especially in long running tv shows, though the simpsons navigated this arguably well) and problems pop up when you don’t (what we’re talking about here).

Ah yes. Well, I agree... They certainly are navigating a minefield, and I dont envy them.

Again, that is why I just eventually relaxed about continuity and what not. I write some of my own fan stories for myself, and I have my own vision of Spidey from roughly start to finish. Other than that, I just kind of pick stories that look interesting to read :P

[TheObsessor]

How depressing that they still think OMD was good for the character. Sales steadily declined after OMD until Superior revived things. It's a testament to Dan Slott and his big ideas and fanning the hype machine for keeping the book afloat DESPITE One More Day. Just imagine if OMD didn't happen in the first place, sales would be through the roof.

Did they steadily decline? I seem to recall several major story arcs after OMD that went over pretty well, such as Gauntlet.

[boots]

Ah yes. Well, I agree... They certainly are navigating a minefield, and I dont envy them.

Again, that is why I just eventually relaxed about continuity and what not. I write some of my own fan stories for myself, and I have my own vision of Spidey from roughly start to finish. Other than that, I just kind of pick stories that look interesting to read :P

good way to stay sane.

[AcroBrat]

I think so... My overall mental health and well being has definitely improved

I just picked up a hardcover collection of Untold Tales which usually costs 110 bucks, on sale for 24. I'm very excited to see them mess with continuity :P

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

If RYV has tremendous sales I guarantee they will consider undoing it

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'd like to believe that but I have very little faith in Marvel for that to happen.

The thing is, it's effectively saying that those who disagree with OMD are "sick". It's our fault for not being "healthy" by refusing what it resulted in.

You know the funny thing is that in a few years when all the old guard has since left the building you're going to have the reverse happening. People are going to say "Why was the marriage restored." and the response will be "Deal with it."

Not necessarily. It could be explained how OMD is a gigantic Plot Hole that makes little sense and there could be a new marriage that takes place.

The first big problem was that OMD was a terrible-written and horribly-contrived story. Basically if they wanted to break Peter/MJ up, then they picked pretty much the worst way possible to do it. That turned off a lot of fans immediately (hence why I know long-time Spidey fans who have refused to buy a Spider-Man book ever since OMD). And if you're going to do that, then what comes after HAS to be really good and interesting. And a lot of it simply wasn't. We had "bachelor" Peter having a series of ultimately meaningless hook-ups, the complete regression of Black Cat's character, and a "romance" with Carlie Cooper that was controversial to say the very least. And we got more of the "loser" Peter stories that we'd gotten over and over and over again over the years. Basically, it was more of the same and, because he's almost 30 now (by Marvel's own count), it's not longer endearing. It's just sad and pathetic. Basically, you turn people off with the initial premise, and the turn more people off with the subpar aftermath. It took Slott and his big and out there ideas to really make people interested again.

And worst of all, this isn't something that the fans were asking for. This was completely Marvel editorials doing. Basically Joe Quesada and co wanted "their Spider-Man" back. They wanted him back to the way that THEY grew up reading him. THEY hated the marriage, not the fanbase. It's usually not a good idea to force your own personal ideas down a fanbases throats, especially when a lot of them don't come from the same place that you do.

Quoted for truth. Even if they were going to get rid of the marriage for the alleged more potential. They didn't have to go the route they did.

One of the probls is that in some ways he is right. While the stories right away weren't that great, theuchad worked Spidey into such a corner that something as drastic as OMD was necessary. (Of course, this raises another issue, of publishers and writers intentionally sabotaging books into to make their sweeping reforms seek desirable.) They had to recover from the unmasking and the Back in Black travesty, and decided to bring the marriage with it.

I think the overarching issue here though, is that characters like Spidey have been around for so long, that the people writing them now grew up as fans. That sounds great in theory, but they are essentially just writing company sanctioned fan fiction. There head can on is no more valid than yours or mine, bit they get to publish it with Marvel's name on it. If they never liked a certain aspect of a character, or thought something was stupid, they can exert that will over the rest of the fans, regardless if it is "objectively" (in so far as such a thing can be objective) better for the characterbor the stories.that kind of flagrant fanboyism comes along with that sense of superiority that you guys were talking about. They are the sanctioned fans. They can be bullies with a badge, and all of our wailing doesn't do anything to negate the fact that they got their power trip.

I disagree entirely that OMD was neccesary. It could have and should've been avoided. It was poorly thought out and handled which only adds more fuel to the fire and the plotholes that Marvel has shown have proven that OMD was unnecessary.

Part of the job of editorial is to figure out what's best for the character, even if it's not what the reader say they want.

The problem is that what the editors think is best isn't always right. They are just as humans and can make mistakes. It doesn't help if both the issue and the fallout are poorly handled.

Absolutely... But most of the modern editors force what THEY want, still not what is best for the character. Which isn't any better. A lot of fans actually want some stupid stuff, but when those fans are the people calling the shots, and they still want stupid stuff... Well...

Which is part of the glaring problem. The editors seems to think thier opinion is above what the audience wants. I'm not denying some fans want stupid things. There are those that want something that seems just as dumb as OMD. The attitude theditors give is that they find the opinion of the fans inferior. As if the fans who disagree are beneath them.

I don't think they should make it so they need to "adapt" the timeline. Just accept that the timeline was altered, and define the future from that point going forward.

Actually figuring this out is a bit easier than one might think IMO as a majority of the stories could've been told with Peter as either married or single. Just say the relationship stuff didn't happen.

[boots]

The problem is that what the editors think is best isn't always right. They are just as humans and can make mistakes. It doesn't help if both the issue and the fallout are poorly handled.

this is the inverse of the terrible "if you think you can do better- go write a comic then" line of logic.

of course editors are just humans. and they're humans who've been hired to do a job because of their knowledge and skillset. does it make them infallible? no. does it make them more of an authority on the subject than a fan? yes. is it an editors job to say nice things to fans? no.

editorial interference forced the marriage to happen and then forced it to unhappen. such is marvel.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

this is the inverse of the terrible "if you think you can do better- go write a comic then" line of logic.

of course editors are just humans. and they're humans who've been hired to do a job because of their knowledge and skillset. does it make them infallible? no. does it make them more of an authority on the subject than a fan? yes. is it an editors job to say nice things to fans? no.

editorial interference forced the marriage to happen and then forced it to unhappen. such is marvel.

I'm not trying to say it's thier job to say nice things to the fans. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like They're saying that anyone who doesn't like what they like in this case OMD is an idiot for not agreeing with them IMO.

[boots]

I'm not trying to say it's thier job to say nice things to the fans. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like They're saying that anyone who doesn't like what they like in this case OMD is an idiot for not agreeing with them IMO.

is he doing that here? to me it just reads like a poor analogy, with no reference to idiots.

he's attempting to create an understanding of "need over want" and that's a hard thing to express without the go-to references of doctors or mums or law enforcement. all of which can be construed as condescending.

i can agree that it wasn't well thought out though from a PR point- he should be aware that he's dealing with an antagonistic (or antagonised) section of the audience.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

is he doing that here? to me it just reads like a poor analogy, with no reference to idiots.

he's attempting to create an understanding of "need over want" and that's a hard thing to express without the go-to references of doctors or mums or law enforcement. all of which can be construed as condescending.

i can agree that it wasn't well thought out though from a PR point- he should be aware that he's dealing with an antagonistic (or antagonised) section of the audience.

Maybe not intentionally but calling OMD medicine implies that the Marriage was a sickness. The main problem is he's saying this to people who liked the marriage. If he's trying to create an understanding it's not working IMO.

[boots]

Maybe not intentionally but calling OMD medicine implies that the Marriage was a sickness. The main problem is he's saying this to people who liked the marriage. If he's trying to create an understanding it's not working IMO.

ha, fair enough. it's not great pr as i said.

but you raise a decent point- what is his aim here? to create understanding with unhappy fans (almost a lost cause in itself) or to justify marvel's position?

[SuperiorIronman]

One thing and to be honest the only thing I'll give credit to One more day is that it managed to give Peter his idenity back. It doesn't however change how awful and idiotic the execution for doing it was.

Let's look at this from another perspective. Peter Parker does not have life insurance. He never gave thought to what might happen to his family should he be killed while wearing the costume. Peter at the end of the day was willing to make it all about his guilt and defy the wishes of his dying Aunt and rewrite reality removing an innocent child from existence. Peter continues to spend more time as spider-man than helping his own company willing to cross all of New York to return a phone, when just returning it to the company or asking his company to help him return it would have been just as easy.
Peter Parker is an adult. He has been an adult for decades now. And still despite it all he is still approaching problems like he was in High school.

[Darth Phoenix]

I do not miss MJ but if u jump to them in their 30's with a child (powered or not} to worry about instead of an acting careear It would make for better stories. He was a grate choice for a role model for kids BUT making a deal with the Devil, leave that crap in Ghostrider and other more fitting books.