Renew Your Vows Sales Predictions

[Kevinroc]

You don't think there could be another name of two thrown into that mix in 40 years time? People could be talking about whether Black Widow or Psylocke are Spidey's best loves by then.

I don't think any possible love interest will have the kind of introduction that MJ had. Even Spectacular Spider-Man's Greg Weisman said that MJ's intro was "one of the great, classic introductions of all time."

First impressions are really important. Even Gwen Stacy's intro was pretty mediocre. (If you forgot, Harry Osborn was introducing himself and Gwen to Flash Thompson on their first day at College.)

Besides, Aunt May likes MJ. You gonna argue with Aunt May?

[Zeitgeist]

Not if she's being played Marissa Tomei...

I don't think any possible love interest will have the kind of introduction that MJ had. Even Spectacular Spider-Man's Greg Weisman said that MJ's intro was "one of the great, classic introductions of all time."

Well sure, it was a great set-up and pay-off. And I'd never say Mary Jane could be replaced in terms of who she is. She's always going to be one of Peter's gals, much like Gwen was, and even Felicia. But like I said, these comics aren't written with an end in sight. Between now and ______, who's to say there may not be some new upstart love interest who makes her own kind of memorable impact?

(We've already met her by the way. Her name is Norah Winters)

[Vortex85]

Marriage isn't a pre-requisite to a great love story.

Didn't say it was. Though it will take a considerate amount of anti-MJ bias to go down and stick it out to where another love comes close to replacing her as Peter's greatest love. Especially if marriage is now off the table. I dont think Marvel are anti MJ. They still advertise her as Peter's true love on their website.

[Kevinroc]

Well sure, it was a great set-up and pay-off. And I'd never say Mary Jane could be replaced in terms of who she is. She's always going to be one of Peter's gals, much like Gwen was, and even Felicia. But like I said, these comics aren't written with an end in sight. Between now and ______, who's to say there may not be some new upstart love interest who makes her own kind of memorable impact?

(We've already met her by the way. Her name is Norah Winters)

I would think, no matter what you do in the comics, that the movies, video games, and other forms of media not representing whoever the new character is would really underscore how "important" she is supposed to be as a great love.

It's one thing when a comic book is playing up Peter's relationship with _____, but when a Spider-Man movie comes out and Peter wants to kiss MJ, it really makes the comic relationship seem more insignificant.

[cyberhubbs]

Not if she's being played Marissa Tomei...



Well sure, it was a great set-up and pay-off. And I'd never say Mary Jane could be replaced in terms of who she is. She's always going to be one of Peter's gals, much like Gwen was, and even Felicia. But like I said, these comics aren't written with an end in sight. Between now and ______, who's to say there may not be some new upstart love interest who makes her own kind of memorable impact?

(We've already met her by the way. Her name is Norah Winters)

I hope not! I like Norah too much to ever wish a relationship with Peter on her.

[Zeitgeist]

Didn't say it was. Though it will take a considerate amount of anti-MJ bias to go down and stick it out to where another love comes close to replacing her as Peter's greatest love. Especially if marriage is now off the table. I dont think Marvel are anti MJ. They still advertise her as Peter's true love on their website.

Did you consider Carlie Cooper's time as Peter's girlfriend to be "anti-MJ"? Pursuing new relationships and liking Mary Jane as a character doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

It's one thing when a comic book is playing up Peter's relationship with _____, but when a Spider-Man movie comes out and Peter wants to kiss MJ, it really makes the comic relationship seem more insignificant.

Well we just had two Spider-Man movies in a row with zero MJ, so I'd say nothing is definite.

I hope not! I like Norah too much to ever wish a relationship with Peter on her.

where is the like button

edit: WHY IS THERE NO NORAH WINTERS APPRECIATION THREAD

[Mister Mets]

Did you consider Carlie Cooper's time as Peter's girlfriend to be "anti-MJ"? Pursuing new relationships and liking Mary Jane as a character doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.



Well we just had two Spider-Man movies in a row with zero MJ, so I'd say nothing is definite.



where is the like button

edit: WHY IS THERE NO NORAH WINTERS APPRECIATION THREAD

If you want a Norah Winters appreciation thread, you can always start one.

[Vortex85]

Did you consider Carlie Cooper's time as Peter's girlfriend to be "anti-MJ"? Pursuing new relationships and liking Mary Jane as a character doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

No, not really. There is writing a new love interest because someone new is expected after something like OMD... you can't just go right back to MJ. So you are required to come up with new and different women to fill the void until her eventual return. This isn't anti-MJ.

Then there is writing a new love interest with the intention that MJ is exclusively in the past, and this new love intrest will supplant her and be Peter's new greatest love. This, to me, is anti-MJ, as the author would not want her to return to promenence or her former glory in favor of someone else who he deems more fitting to be Spidey's great love, which would go against her historical relevance and well deserved place at Peter's side.

[Kevinroc]

Well we just had two Spider-Man movies in a row with zero MJ, so I'd say nothing is definite.

Now this is something that should be discussed because considering how those movies went down, do they think that was a mistake? Because Sony rushed off to make a deal with Marvel Studios after these two films. Do you think that would have happened if Emma Stone played MJ?

[Zeitgeist]

Then there is writing a new love interest with the intention that MJ is exclusively in the past, and this new love intrest will supplant her and be Peter's new greatest love. This, to me, is anti-MJ, as the author would not want her to return to promenence or her former glory in favor of someone else who he deems more fitting to be Spidey's great love, which would go against her historical relevance and well deserved place at Peter's side.

Interesting.

Now this is something that should be discussed because considering how those movies went down, do they think that was a mistake? Because Sony rushed off to make a deal with Marvel Studios after these two films. Do you think that would have happened if Emma Stone played MJ?

Lol yes, undoubtedly. The name of Spider-Man's girlfriend had absolutely nothing to do with why both the Amazing films underperformed.

[boots]

I appreciate the perspective you bring as both a fan and a professional, but I think we're just going to disagree here. No harm no foul.

For what it's worth, when OMD happened, I remember reading many detailed and thoughtful arguments on both sides. Does that mean bias was not involved? My bias, freely stated, is that I like MJ and think her presence (in whatever capacity) enhances the quality of the spider-mythos. This is going to color how I see things. But I also like Black Cat and Gwen Stacy. Everyone has biases, even the people working Marvel. That doesn't invalidate the quality of an argument, though it is important for context.

i'm wondering where we disagree? nobody is objective it's true- but if you can understand and value all points of view it can only add to your own.

[jimishim12]

The the issue is to me wheter Marvel gives a crap about romance in a Spider-Man title and wants it promoted, Peter Parker inevitably is just like any other basic superhero protagonist that has to be excitable and full of action, his slice of life soap opera aspects were second fiddle compared to the actual focus of Peter's power and force of role with them, the drama especially with romance shouldn't be equally correspondent to the true essence of the series which is Spider-Man executing great responsibilty with his great power as Spider-Man, and they're has been so many stories where Peter is doomed to have no stable happiness as Spider-Man and Peter with MJ or a family without retiring or quitting as Spidey which means the end of Peter's stories as a hero, this hammers in the message that Peter is a coming of age character and only progress as far as fundamentally as learning can take him not actually being at the peak of maturity and growth.

Peter is like Ryu from Street Figthter in a sense, he will never stop trying to yearn for actual progress, potential and enlightenment due to feeling himself not complete nor ready to take on his ultimate path as a man who is free from his self inflicted guilt and conscience from failure and a existential crisis.

[Kevinroc]

The the issue is to me wheter Marvel gives a crap about romance in a Spider-Man title and wants it promoted, Peter Parker inevitably is just like any other basic superhero protagonist that has to be excitable and full of action, his slice of life soap opera aspects were second fiddle compared to the actual focus of Peter's power and force of role with them, the drama especially with romance shouldn't be equally correspondent to the true essence of the series which is Spider-Man executing great responsibilty with his great power as Spider-Man, and they're has been so many stories where Peter is doomed to have no stable happiness as Spider-Man and Peter with MJ or a family without retiring or quitting as Spidey which means the end of Peter's stories as a hero, this hammers in the message that Peter is a coming of age character and only progress as far as fundamentally as learning can take him not actually being at the peak of maturity and growth.

Peter is like Ryu from Street Figthter in a sense, he will never stop trying to yearn for actual progress, potential and enlightenment due to feeling himself not complete nor ready to take on his ultimate path as a man who is free from his self inflicted guilt and conscience from failure and a existential crisis.

I can't wait for the day Spider-Man shows up in Super Smash Bros. I wonder what his final smash would be.

Agree to disagree about retelling of origin. I was just using Daredevil's TV show as an example of telling the origin while remaining engaging for the people who already know the story. I wasn't even thinking about the movie, honestly (willful amnesia?).

I can see both sides of the Richard/Ben argument. It's possible that the writers wanted to give a twist to the origin/motivations, perhaps because of the issue we are discussing: overkill of the same old straightforward "lack of responsibility leads to Ben's death" origin. Although we are still shown how Peter blames himself for Ben's death, if I recall correctly.

On the other hand, if you prefer that the movies stay very close to the original comics, I can see how you wouldn't care for it. I personally like it when we get twists/re-imaginings in the movies. I don't want to see a shot for shot remake of a story I already know. I think "Guardians" was a great example of staying true to what worked in the comics while adjusting the story smartly for the screen. I just look at the comics being an inspirational source for the movies, not as a bible or strict set of guidelines. It lets me enjoy the movies a lot more, without worrying about what matches or what doesn't fit or whatever.

I liked Ant-Man quite a bit. And it does what you're talking about staying true to what worked in the comics. When Scott Lang talks about how important his daughter is to him, I felt like that was the character from the comics on the screen, even though the circumstances to his becoming Ant-Man were different.

The Amazing films did not do that. And I point to Richard Parker as an example of that. Peter in the comics has never had this obsession with his biological father that these movies portrayed him as. We can see why it didn't work. Peter had all but seemingly forgotten Uncle Ben by ASM 2. (When Aunt May says Uncle Ben should be the graduation, Peter chimes in and says Richard Parker should be there too. That is not Peter Parker. I wanted to see that character get slapped for that disrespectful comment.)

[Tuck]

You said if catering to a vocal section of the audience would guarantee sales and was the "least risky idea", then why not do it.

That's not what I said.

I was basing it on sales, not "vocalness".

[Zeitgeist]

My Peter Parker doesn't think Prometheus was that bad of a film, but is afraid to like it's Facebook page out of fear what people will think.

are spider-man fans more inclined to squeeze tightly to a preferred depiction? i thought it was just a general fan thing across the board.

Filmwise it's generally hard to say, but there was a lot of people who seemed to considered bringing Miles into the MCU before Peter was the breaking of the first seal of the apocalypse.

That's not what I said.

I was basing it on sales, not "vocalness".

You didn't mention sales ("money to be made") specifically until after what I referenced. The initial discussion was about how vocal fandoms were. *shrug emoticon*