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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thane View Post
    There s info on marvel wiki that states it s exactly unlimited.
    Attachment 90088.
    It's exactly the same for Hulks wiki page and guess what, he is not "unlimited" or "infinite" or whatever. Neither of them are and they can't be. Only omnipotent beings can have unlimited anything and if they actually had unlimited strength them just walking would destroy the planet let alone fighting or smashing, we need to use common sense with these things. If Hercules had unlimited strength he wouldn't stalemated Thor on 3 different occasions in arm wrestle or need help from Sunspot to hold the weight of Earth in place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane View Post
    I guess there s popularity and plot factor, which seems
    nearly always goes against herx or juggy.They might be ultra
    Super duper strong, but as long as people like hulk, because of his SMASH and various things like she hulk... That s about popularity.
    Of course popularity plays a role but that's not always an excuse, Daredevil is more popular than Hercules isn't gonna physically overpower Hercules any time soon. Not many people know this but the first superheroes in Marvel were the Fantastic Four and right after them was Hulk(Hulk actually came before Spider-man, Thor, Juggernaut, Hercules, etc...) but the point is Hulk was invented BECAUSE Thing was so popular. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby decided they need a character like the Thing that is super strong and tough and despite Thing being much more popular at the time they made the Hulk and made him STRONGER than Thing, so really popularity only plays a role to a certain extent. Hulk being as strong as he is, has mostly to do with the fact that Marvel always envisioned him as the being that personifies physical strength. And with his ability to grow stronger the angrier he gets, it's really not hard for him to overpower certain characters who just don't have that same ability.

  2. #77
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thane View Post
    I guess there s popularity and plot factor, which seems
    nearly always goes against herx or juggy.They might be ultra
    Super duper strong, but as long as people like hulk, because of his SMASH and various things like she hulk... That s about popularity.
    The beauty of Marvel is that writers have the freedom to establish whatever power levels they like for their characters. They can either go with the established notion of power levels, or completely buck the system. It's not a coincidence that over the past decade or so we've seen so many characters vying for "strongest" character at one point or another. But given that Hulk is likely to have an ongoing series in some shape/form until Marvel shudders its business, good luck keeping him out of the discussion as the strongest ever. The Hulk will always have more opportunities to state his case compared to the field.

  3. #78
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Interesting. No one mentioned Maxam. I'll throw this out there to the group. What do you consider to be "better than Hulk-class strength"?
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  4. #79
    Spectacular Member GigaBalls's Avatar
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    Juggernaut, dude was able to handle World War Hulk and match his strength with his powers weakened. It wasn't until Xavier asked him to stand down because their fight was going to destroy those beneath the mansion that allowed Hulk to use his strength and power against him to toss him away using his own power.

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Interesting. No one mentioned Maxam. I'll throw this out there to the group. What do you consider to be "better than Hulk-class strength"?
    Yes, Maxam was very high strength when he added his minor growth spurt and I remember he was said to surpass Wonder Man, who at that time, "was second only to Thor in strength".

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Interesting. No one mentioned Maxam. I'll throw this out there to the group. What do you consider to be "better than Hulk-class strength"?
    I think it refers to basically lesser Hulk versions(strength wise, not lesser as characters) like She-Hulk, Grey-Hulk, Professor Hulk, etc... Cause i have seen statements like that used before and whenever it came to feats the characters were always far behind someone like Hulk, even Maxam. Just recently Hulk fought 4 beings who all stated to be Hulk class each and have more strength than gods like Thor, but each got one-shot by Hulk.


    Quote Originally Posted by GigaBalls View Post
    Juggernaut, dude was able to handle World War Hulk and match his strength with his powers weakened. It wasn't until Xavier asked him to stand down because their fight was going to destroy those beneath the mansion that allowed Hulk to use his strength and power against him to toss him away using his own power.
    Umm no. Juggernaut when he didn't have his powers got fodderized by WWH, he then went to Cyttorak and asked him to give him the power to defeat him and Cyttorak did so he was no longer weakened there and he and WWH then stalemated each other, until WWH used his momentum to throw him into a swamp. Interesting thing about their brief fight is that it was even confirmed by the writer that the Hulk actually with nothing but pure physical strength managed to stop Juggernauts unstoppable magical momentum. Which actually goes to show just how strong Hulk was at that point even while holding back with pure physical strength he managed to match Juggernauts own physical strength and the unstoppable enchantment.

    In recent years Juggernaut however has been extremely underwhelming, he has been beaten by Deadpool with a cement truck, beaten by Iceman, beaten by Unworthy Thor even though Juggernaut was amped, knocked out by a bazooka, etc... he is far from what he once used to be.

  7. #82
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    I think it refers to basically lesser Hulk versions(strength wise, not lesser as characters) like She-Hulk, Grey-Hulk, Professor Hulk, etc...
    Possibly, except at that time Moondragon wasn't familiar with any of the other Hulks, except She-Hulk. (This all occurred back in the pages of Warlock and the Infinity Watch.) She-Hulk's strength was projected in the 50-85 ton range back then, so I don't think Moonie was including anyone except the Hulk in her assessment. She'd been the Hulk's teammate -- as well as the teammate of Thor, Hercules, and other elite level heavy hitters -- and she's not easily given to hyperbole. I trust her assessment.

    Cause i have seen statements like that used before and whenever it came to feats the characters were always far behind someone like Hulk, even Maxam.
    I know what you mean. This kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier that Hulk will always be strongest because he'll always have an opportunity to put feats on panel. Other characters will be lucky to display one feat of "Hulk level" strength in a decade. And the characters who do have a number of top showings are usually doing so when opposite the Hulk. The narrative rarely changes, and if it ever does, rest assured it won't last for very long. Hulk's writers will set the standard anew.

    I don't think we ever really got to see Maxam's top strength feats. In fact, the writing contradicted itself on a number of occasions. On the one hand he was strong enough to shatter Invisible Woman's force field, but on the other hand, he couldn't break out of steel girders that Moondragon wrapped around him telekinetically. Part of me thinks that's because the series was ending and the writer needed to move the story along to a rapid close. That probably also explains why Moondragon was able to psionically sedate Maxam, as well as induce him into believing her illusion, even though in earlier issues the writer made it a point to establish that Maxam had psionic defenses that allowed him to easily brush off Moondragon's full psionic blast, a devastating attack that was further augmented by the Mind Infinity Stone. It just goes to show you that it's nice to have a decent pen on your side at all times, I guess. Otherwise you get nothing but inconsistent and incongruous scripts.

    Just recently Hulk fought 4 beings who all stated to be Hulk class each and have more strength than gods like Thor, but each got one-shot by Hulk.
    There is a tendency to conflate strength with striking power and invulnerability. True, there are lots of characters who claim to have Hulk level strength, but I would never take that to mean that they can either deliver or take a Hulk-level punch. King Hyperion may be stronger than 3 of the strongest Hyperions ever created. But he can't take a punch. Same thing with Sentry. Arguably one of the strongest beings in the multiverse even without the Void, but we've seen him take a standing 8 count when someone with the Hulk's level of striking power connects cleanly with that jaw of his.
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 12-17-2019 at 03:36 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Possibly, except at that time Moondragon wasn't familiar with any of the other Hulks, except She-Hulk. (This all occurred back in the pages of Warlock and the Infinity Watch.) She-Hulk's strength was projected in the 50-85 ton range back then, so I don't think Moonie was including anyone except the Hulk in her assessment. She'd been the Hulk's teammate -- as well as the teammate of Thor, Hercules, and other elite level heavy hitters -- and she's not easily given to hyperbole. I trust her assessment.
    Yea and the Hulk that was back then was Professor Hulk, not Savage Hulk and Professor Hulk is considered the second weakest version of Hulk due to his limit on anger and strength. I also don't put too much value into character statements, characters can be wrong or have differing opinions. It's not that i don't trust her there it's that i have no idea how she would know to make a statement like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I know what you mean. This kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier that Hulk will always be strongest because he'll always have an opportunity to put feats on panel. Other characters will be lucky to display one feat of "Hulk level" strength in a decade. And the characters who do have a number of top showings are usually doing so when opposite the Hulk. The narrative rarely changes, and if it ever does, rest assured it won't last for very long. Hulk's writers will set the standard anew..
    Yea it doesn't help that most writers nowadays share the mentality that when it comes to pure physical strength Hulk is above pretty much everyone else when it comes to superheroes. Some characters can certainly get to his level but never at the very top of what he is capable.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I don't think we ever really got to see Maxam's top strength feats. In fact, the writing contradicted itself on a number of occasions. On the one hand he was strong enough to shatter Invisible Woman's force field, but on the other hand, he couldn't break out of steel girders that Moondragon wrapped around him telekinetically. Part of me thinks that's because the series was ending and the writer needed to move the story along to a rapid close. That probably also explains why Moondragon was able to psionically sedate Maxam, as well as induce him into believing her illusion, even though in earlier issues the writer made it a point to establish that Maxam had psionic defenses that allowed him to easily brush off Moondragon's full psionic blast, a devastating attack that was further augmented by the Mind Infinity Stone. It just goes to show you that it's nice to have a decent pen on your side at all times, I guess. Otherwise you get nothing but inconsistent and incongruous scripts.
    Unfortunately inconsistancies are part of comics that we just have to learn to live with. It can get frustrating at times, but most writers don't think too hard into actual character feats and when you have 1 character appearing in multiple stories across multiple writers it can get so much worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    There is a tendency to conflate strength with striking power and invulnerability. True, there are lots of characters who claim to have Hulk level strength, but I would never take that to mean that they can either deliver or take a Hulk-level punch. King Hyperion may be stronger than 3 of the strongest Hyperions ever created. But he can't take a punch. Same thing with Sentry. Arguably one of the strongest beings in the multiverse even without the Void, but we've seen him take a standing 8 count when someone with the Hulk's level of striking power connects cleanly with that jaw of his.
    It's kinda impossible to have Hulk level of strength when you think about it, Hulk doesn't have a defined strength level, not even like a general range, his strength can increase EXPONENTIALLY as Stan Lee liked to say, so when i hear someone say they have Hulk level strength i tend to question what they could mean by that, because it doesn't make much sense to me to begin with unless they also happen to be the type of character that has some way to increase their strength on the fly to ridiculous degrees.
    Btw while we are on topic, King Hyperion is such a joke. He used to beat up and kill alternate versions of heroes including Hulks and Thors and according to him even beat/killed alternate version of Galactus and then he appeared in 616 and got beat by BM, broke his hand againsta depowered Juggernaut, got his neck snapped by Namorita, etc... A good reminder not to believe every bit of hype about a character unless they prove themselves in a consistent way.

  9. #84
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    It's kinda impossible to have Hulk level of strength when you think about it, Hulk doesn't have a defined strength level, not even like a general range, his strength can increase EXPONENTIALLY as Stan Lee liked to say, so when i hear someone say they have Hulk level strength i tend to question what they could mean by that, because it doesn't make much sense to me to begin with unless they also happen to be the type of character that has some way to increase their strength on the fly to ridiculous degrees.
    Well, I think the Hulk definitely has a floor. No one will ever say that a person who can only lift 20, 50, 100 tons has "Hulk level" strength. (The gray Hulk maybe, but definitely not the green variety.) It only gets ambiguous when we're talking about the upper limits and the type of feats that go with that. It may be difficult to fully quantify, but I don't think it's all that difficult to classify. If someone says that there's a Hyperion that is strong enough to keep two planets from converging, then we're probably safe in calling that "Hulk level" strength. Or if a god comes along and starts tossing around supertanker ships that weigh hundreds of thousands of tons as easy as you or I might toss a poker chip, then yes, I think we can safely call that Hulk-class strength. We don't really need to know Hulk's exact range to make that sort of ballpark determination.

    By the by, Maxam's strength and invulnerability does scale exponentially according to his size. That said, I highly doubt we'll ever know if Moondragon was right. Of all of the members of Warlock's Infinity Watch, Maxam is the only one that never made another appearance after the title ended 24 years ago. I don't see anyone clamoring to bring him back … ever. (It's a damn shame that Marvel has so many characters wasting away in limbo.)
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 12-17-2019 at 07:15 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Well, I think the Hulk definitely has a floor. No one will ever say that a person who can only lift 20, 50, 100 tons has "Hulk level" strength. (The gray Hulk maybe, but definitely not the green variety.) It only gets ambiguous when we're talking about the upper limits and the type of feats that go with that. It may be difficult to fully quantify, but I don't think it's all that difficult to classify. If someone says that there's a Hyperion that is strong enough to keep two planets from converging, then we're probably safe in calling that "Hulk level" strength. Or if a god comes along and starts tossing around supertanker ships that weigh hundreds of thousands of tons as easy as you or I might toss a poker chip, then yes, I think we can safely call that Hulk-class strength. We don't really need to know Hulk's exact range to make that sort of ballpark determination.
    I dunno, the problem with what some people say is "base level strength" of Hulk is that such a thing doesn't really exist, Hulks starting strength depends entirely on his emotional trigger, if Bruce Banner gets pushed over by someone that could anger him enough to turn into Hulk but it's not gonna anger him as much as seeing something like Betty getting murdered right in front of his eyes. That's why we have a scene where Bruce Banner went from his human self to a Hulk that with his transformation alone almost broke the continent in the span of a single page it all happened almost instantaneously. So his "floor" or starting strength could be all over the place.

    I guess but again it depends on what people mean by "Hulk level", Hyperions strength is still pretty fixated barring outside amps, Hulks isn't, even Hickman who gave Hyperion the 2 planets strength feat came out and said Hulk is straight up stronger than him, so does that mean he is strong enough to be on another level or they are on a similar level it just so happens that Hulk is slightly stronger or something, it gets muddy.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    By the by, Maxam's strength and invulnerability does scale exponentially according to his size. That said, I highly doubt we'll ever know if Moondragon was right. Of all of the members of Warlock's Infinity Watch, Maxam is the only one that never made another appearance after the title ended 24 years ago. I don't see anyone clamoring to bring him back … ever. (It's a damn shame that Marvel has so many characters wasting away in limbo.)
    Yea but not on the level with Hulk and his anger. Maxam could be a cool character to bring back but i think Marvel should focus more on the characters that have shown up in the last decade or two that haven't really gotten much exposure and exist and appear a little every now and then but nothing major. Like i would love to see more from Blue Marvel, Hyperion, Sentry, etc.. I know they unfortunately can't hold their own series because they don't have the same level of popularity but there is no reason they can't on various Avengers or other teams, it's really lame. I remember asking Ewing if we would see someone like Blue Marvel in an Immortal Hulk he did say it was a possibility, hopefully Al has spoken about a few "major Marvel players" appearing around Immortal Hulk 40, so i have my fingers crossed that maybe he would be one of them, i think right about then Devil Hulk will probably be a major threat that needs to be taken out and it will involve the Avengers, X-men and F4. From a pure action perspective it would be cool to see but also because Ewing can write dialogue so perfectly and it would be nice to see them all take jabs at one another and interact.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Hulk is the strongest there is.

  12. #87
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    So his "floor" or starting strength could be all over the place.
    Just to clarify, by "floor" I don't mean to connote his starting point, but rather the minimum that a green Hulk can lift given a diminished excited/enraged Hulk state. No matter how mad he gets initially, the history shows that the Hulk does calm down, and when he does, his strength subsides. That point -- whatever that tonnage is -- would be his floor. Others have tried to quantify that amount in the past, but I'll side with you here that it can be a little difficult to nail down. What we do know, though, is that it's much more than what other run of the mill superhuman types can lift. I mean no one would mistake Tigra for being "Hulk-class strength" worthy.

    I guess but again it depends on what people mean by "Hulk level", Hyperions strength is still pretty fixated barring outside amps, Hulks isn't, even Hickman who gave Hyperion the 2 planets strength feat came out and said Hulk is straight up stronger than him, so does that mean he is strong enough to be on another level or they are on a similar level it just so happens that Hulk is slightly stronger or something, it gets muddy.
    I think those are the types of questions that fans would love to see answered on panel. Not necessarily a "who is stronger" type thing, but a simple illustration of what they mean when they say that someone has "incalculable" or "unlimited" strength. And, absolutely, whenever a writer says that so and so has Hulk level strength, well, they damn well better put a feat to that. Show, don't tell. I think at the end of the day we all want to be awed.


    Maxam could be a cool character to bring back but i think Marvel should focus more on the characters that have shown up in the last decade or two that haven't really gotten much exposure and exist and appear a little every now and then but nothing major.
    I wasn't necessarily championing the return of Maxam, but honestly, I'm not entirely convinced that Blue Marvel and others aren't on the same path that Maxam took into obscurity. But these are all topics for another thread and another day. I will say that I just read the conclusion to Annihilation: Scourge and I'm really disappointed. Void/Sentry is at the heart of the story, by the way.
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  13. #88
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    Hulk is the strongest there is
    I disagree.

  14. #89
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    The Maestro is stronger then savage hulk and thor by the way.

    By the way i want to say something about feats that i said while ago but i almost forgot to mention here or i was just going to leave it alone.

    These are views/comments i have over time when folks talk about feats,statments and bio info etc..


    Wonder woman in the death of superman animated movie.
    GodofBoredom quote-
    If she were physically equal to Superman, she'd make him redundant, considering she's much more skilled, magical, with a sword that cuts through anything, with a bracelet that blocks anything, and with a lasso that bounds everybody.
    She also has no weakness, compared to kryptonite, red sun and magic.
    Give her a GL ring (I'm pretty sure you'd say her willpower should be high enough to handle one), and the Justice League can go on vacation.
    She has never been as strong as Superman. This is consistent, among the entire comic book publishing history, to the point where I'm honestly amazed a small amount people still exist that cling to their internalized fan-fiction. It doesn't matter what writers say, Gladiator was created to be Pre-Crisis Superman, Thor was created to be stronger than Hulk, and much more, what matters is what's published, not what writers say in interviews to stroke egos.
    You're going into 'secret collusion' paranoia that is, quite frankly, embarrassing.
    She's a badass warrior, with OP weapons, tactical ability, fighting ability second to none and physical ability second ONLY to Superman, who has none of the former. The longer you continue this inferiority-complex based "but she also has to be as strong!!!", the more people will face palm.
    Doomsday is a physically nigh-unstoppable being, which makes him tailor made for Superman. Wonder Woman losing to him, when that's not her strength, is not bad. The same way Superman losing to Circe, while Wonder Woman beats her, is not bad for him.
    http://community.comicbookresources....ointment/page9

    Marvel and dc gets the last word by the way and not the writer.
    For example, kevin the creator of blue marvel wanted blue marvel intelligence to be 5 and his speed to be 6 on the marvel power grid,but marvel said no and wanted blue marvel speed to be 5 or not light speed and they gave blue marvel intelligence a 6 instead of 5.
    Anyway officially marvel had blue marvel strength to be equal or greater then wb hulk and odin force thor.

    Worldbreaker hulk by the way is not normal hulk.
    Blue marvel striking strength is more powerful then wb hulk.Blue marvel has enhanced energy punches too.
    I have notice this being downplayed alot in battle forums and other forums when it comes to talking about strength and blue marvel strength and it should not be downplayed.
    Blue marvel has knock out hulks with one punch and sentry as not and hulk has never knock out sentry with one punch like blue marvel does to hulks and what he did to the sentry.
    That's a major feat that is downplayed by certain folks i have notice over the years and i will not let them get away that.
    I am sticking to my views.


    Ice man lgbt talk.

    Killerbee911 quote-

    Sorry the only opinion that matters is Marvel,creators come along saying a character was meant to be something does not matter. Claremont or whatever other writers intended for Kitty doesn't matter she dates guys in the comics, Whatever it is Yost intended for X-23 she still dates only guys, Whatever Rob Liefield intended for Shatterstar and Rictor doesn't matter because Marvel went in a other direction. I would 100% percent bet that Stan Lee never intended for Iceman to be gay but it does not matter because Marvel owns Iceman not Stan Lee. Until it hits the page does not matter and when it does it is canon. Iceman is gay
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-as-the-90%92s
    Last edited by mace11; 12-22-2019 at 07:48 AM.

  15. #90
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    This was posted awhile ago on on another forum comicvine.

    The wiki get it's info from the comics itself for those who do not read them or kept up.So it's futile to tell folks to stop reading bio info.
    The bio tends to get right alot of times or most time.
    This website is feats crazy,that's another reason i STOP posting in the battle forums.
    Showing lifting strength feats is not everything because the character maybe new and needs more time,so that's not fair and there are other ways to find out how strong or how powerful someone is.Just use your common sense,it's not that hard,besides the sentry stalemated the hulk and he was not even trying at the end.
    When he fought the hulk he was kicking his butt and then sentry said come on,hit me etc..
    Sentry did not even fight back and he was was not even at full power.
    Hulk fan boys get carried away at times just like the superman ones.
    So they have nothing to say to me and am not listening to them.
    Thor,sentry and blue marvel start out stronger then hulk anyway and blue marvel is stronger then all of them but we need to see more of him so never say never,besides like i said,he is at least as strong has the hulk.

    Note-
    Even when mentioning the feats it's downplayed.

    This was on marvel.com website a few years ago officially.
    Blue Marvel possess superhuman strength that is equal to Thor and Hulk, high degree of durability. His body can store anti-matter and disperse it to a unknown degree
    http://marvel.com/characters/327/blue_marvel

    It's not there anymore but save it.
    Note- this was at the time when thor was odin force thor or king rune thor hulk was worldbreaker since that bio info for blue marvel was around 2009 and hulk's new bio came out earlier.

    KMC Forums > Comic Book Forums > Comic Book 'Respect' Forum > The Blue Marvel Respect Thread (Updated)
    http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t609332.html

    I will be posting some videos that talking about blue marvel powers and super strength.
    I posted some before in other threads but there is another one i keep forgetting to post when talking about this topic,so take your time to watch them all.
    Thank you.
    Blue Marvel: Does Science Prove That He Is Stronger Than The Hulk?

    Yes blue marvel is stronger then hulk and more powerful then hulk.
    Last edited by mace11; 12-22-2019 at 05:31 AM.

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