REVIEW: New Avengers, #29

[Reviresco]

I'm not that surprised about the lack of reaction because in one respect I think they probably knew it was coming eventually but suspected it might have been the rest of the Cabal that would turn on him.

I don't understand what you are saying. Plenty of people know their friends or loved ones are going to die. It doesn't make one's feelings or reactions any less, when it happens. Plus, I'd be pretty damned pi$$ed if someone murdered someone I knew, much less a friend, even if they were dying of a terminal illness.

[ShaunN]

I've got to go back and re-read my "New Avengers". I honestly don't remember the Cabal capturing and imprisoning Tony Stark. I take it that it is Stark's prison cube the Illuminati are standing next to and thinking "something bad happened here"?

Franklin is not dead, but he was hurt. I love the bit with the Celestials - I'm a big fan of the Celestials and that was always going to be my question: this is an event of universal significance (to put it mildly). Why aren't the Celestials not doing anything? Now we know that, for some reason, they are choosing not to act. More ominously, they may have been "taken out" by someone - presumably the Great Destroyer.

One thing I don't like about this storyline is the fixation on Earth. Earth is, literally, the focus of the entire universe. What I don't get is this: the Illuminati considered destroying Earth and evacuating the whole planet. Not having an Earth around would, apparently, make an Incursion impossible and buy them time. There must be many beings in the universe who know what is happening and who don't have any sentimental attachment to Earth. Why haven't they come along to blow up the Earth and save the entire universe?

Last point: I also think that the Beyonders have followed Hank back to Earth and that he brought them there deliberately. I'll have to go re-read to see the stuff about the Beyonders being a problem, but that is what the Black Swan says on the recap page. Was she lying or is there more going on than anyone knows (as with the Priests)?

[Reviresco]

Franklin was proven to be alive a few issues ago, in passing mention by Sue.

I'm not sure which is more surprising, that people think Hickman off-screened Franklin, or that people actually think 616 Reed is capable of sacrificing his family.

I mean, I hate Kev Walker's monkey art ruining my favorite Marvel title (I will never understand how Marvel's most important title doesn't have a better artist) as much as the next guy, but this isn't a time where he has failed to convey what is going on.

Blame Hickman. He's the one that has Reed strapping his son into some weird device, and writing that the Illuminati "paid higher costs" with Reed crying over Franklin.

I really don't get the Kev Walker hate. I like his art. It looked a bit rushed in places, but I don't think that's entirely his fault. Rags Morales art was much worse.

Though, I agree. You'd think the Avengers, of all books, could get a consistent art team.

[Mary Jay]

Hey Mary Jay. How do you feel about Hank being back in the Yellowjacket suit? It makes sense with Lang having his Ant Man book. Also I'm glad the Illuminati asked Pym to help out.

Not sure yet how I feel about it. I guess it'll depend on how Hickman writes him going forward (if he does at all). I would hate to see all the work that Pym has done on himself get pushed aside for no good reason. I read Brevoort saying that the only reason YJ was back was because Hickman liked him, which is kind of the worst reason to have him back, because story-wise it makes no sense at all. I personally always preferred the Giant-Man look (as in Av. Academy and going forward) So right now I'm... very cautious in my hopes for the character.

I guess it sort of explains why we didn't see Pym in Axis... he was scouting the multiverse (since we see a non-inverted Tony in NA #8, where we believe Pym left to go run Tony and Reed's errand). I don't think he would have been very happy about what was going on... come to think of it, why do horrible things always happen when he's not around? Civil War, Secret Invasion, heck even AoU!, and now Axis.

Although I don't agree fully with everything the Illuminati have done, this is the first time (to my knowledge) that we see them having ASKED someone for help, so I guess that's always something

[vitruvian]

I've got to go back and re-read my "New Avengers". I honestly don't remember the Cabal capturing and imprisoning Tony Stark. I take it that it is Stark's prison cube the Illuminati are standing next to and thinking "something bad happened here"?

You won't find the issue where it happens, since like so many things, Hickman only tells us about it after the fact.

Franklin is not dead, but he was hurt. I love the bit with the Celestials - I'm a big fan of the Celestials and that was always going to be my question: this is an event of universal significance (to put it mildly). Why aren't the Celestials not doing anything? Now we know that, for some reason, they are choosing not to act. More ominously, they may have been "taken out" by someone - presumably the Great Destroyer.

Hurt at least to the extent of partially burning out his powers, at least for now. We know he's able to hug Reed back right after the attempt, and Sue tells Reed that Franklin feels like he disappointed his father.

As for the Celestials, yeah, they apparently are unable to intervene.

One thing I don't like about this storyline is the fixation on Earth. Earth is, literally, the focus of the entire universe. What I don't get is this: the Illuminati considered destroying Earth and evacuating the whole planet. Not having an Earth around would, apparently, make an Incursion impossible and buy them time. There must be many beings in the universe who know what is happening and who don't have any sentimental attachment to Earth. Why haven't they come along to blow up the Earth and save the entire universe?

As of this issue, it appears that not having an Earth no longer buys you much time at all, as they say there are 22 universes left, all with Earths. So, something got rid of all the Earthless ones, or they'd add to that count. However, this is a new development, as up till now everybody from Black Swan to Reed to the Builders to what they observed using the Bridge was pointing at blowing Earths as the way to survive for a good deal longer, even if not a permanent save.

And your point about others within the universe being perfectly willing to sacrifice the Earth for the rest of the universe, is precisely what the Builders were supposed to be after doing in Infinity. Of course, they approached it in the most roundabout way possible, rampaging and conquering around all of known space on their way to Earth rather than just warping an armada there and blowing the place up, then worrying about the rest of the universe.

Last point: I also think that the Beyonders have followed Hank back to Earth and that he brought them there deliberately. I'll have to go re-read to see the stuff about the Beyonders being a problem, but that is what the Black Swan says on the recap page. Was she lying or is there more going on than anyone knows (as with the Priests)?

I initially thought they were on Pym's heels through the portal as well, but upon rereading I think it's a holographic recording Pym has brought as well. Either way, hope to see his encounter with them in the next issue.

[JJ Fiegel]

Blame Hickman. He's the one that has Reed strapping his son into some weird device, and writing that the Illuminati "paid higher costs" with Reed crying over Franklin.

I really don't get the Kev Walker hate. I like his art. It looked a bit rushed in places, but I don't think that's entirely his fault. Rags Morales art was much worse.

Though, I agree. You'd think the Avengers, of all books, could get a consistent art team.

Yes, the narration and the paneling doesn't make it seem so. That part is wonky. However, as someone who loves Reed and the FF, I took it to mean the disappointment, grief, anguish, over what Reed made Franklin try to do and Franklin unable to do, the real meaning behind it. Remember, Franklin was upset that he disappointed Reed. Maybe, in context, Franklin is crying, upset that he failed, and Reed cries with him, upset that he has caused that grief in his son. He's not holding a dead Franklin, he's consoling him.

Although, Hickman also wrote the line in the previous issue of Avengers. "Franklin is still upset that he disappointed you". Present tense - "is". Franklin is alive. Blame the reader for not being diligent enough and not needing everything spoonfed.

Note of course it's nearly impossible to remember one line from an issue three or four months ago. I'm merely exaggerating. But Franklin was already proven to be alive.

Also, Walker's first issue was incredibly rushed. Such a core, important issue in the series, almost ruined by it. He also draws a completely awful Reed Richards. We started this series with Epting (who draws my favorite Reed (yes I judge this series for how well the artist draws Reed fight me)), and sadly have to end it with Walker.

[glennc]

I'm happy to buy the arguments that franklin is still alive but it is not clear the order of events here.

Sue told reed that franklin thought he had disappointed him. At some later point reed and tchalla recall the efforts they have made, one of which involved franklin and ended with reed hugging / cradling franklin crying his eyes out and saying ominously that huge costs have been endured.

Its not totally clear that these events haven't occurred since reed and sue talked.

On reflection I think this scene (clumsily) is meant to take Franklin off the table as he is an obvious solution to both this current storyline and the upcoming Secret Wars fun and games.

[DrTraveler]

Hickman didn't convey that very well either. His words lead one to believe that Franklin died (or suffered great harm) in that attempt.

It was already established prior to this that Franklin survived his attempt to solve the problem. Not sure what everyone is going on about.

[DrTraveler]

Two things I think should be corrected in the review:

1. Franklin not being dead

2. Nowhere is said in this issue that the Beyonders "are the last hope the universe", while Strange in a previous issue said the Great Destroyer and The Beyonders were both after the End of Everything.

Also, Hank didn't bring the Beyonders back with him. I was confused by that too, but he's actually showing us a recording of them.

[glennc]

The confusion comes from Reed being portrayed as still visibly upset and the phrase about enduring great costs.

Why is Reed still so upset? What great costs? When did this attempt with Franklin occur? Are we sure it happened before Reed and Sue talked?

Thought the whole 'we tried this' bits were rushed. What happened to captain Britain? What happened to franklin? Lots of room for speculation.

[vitruvian]

I'm happy to buy the arguments that franklin is still alive but it is not clear the order of events here.

Sue told reed that franklin thought he had disappointed him. At some later point reed and tchalla recall the efforts they have made, one of which involved franklin and ended with reed hugging / cradling franklin crying his eyes out and saying ominously that huge costs have been endured.

Its not totally clear that these events haven't occurred since reed and sue talked.

On reflection I think this scene (clumsily) is meant to take Franklin off the table as he is an obvious solution to both this current storyline and the upcoming Secret Wars fun and games.

That would require there to have been two separate attempts to use Franklin's powers to solve things. Also, corpses don't hug back. Also, there doesn't seem to have been a large time gap between Reed and Sue meeting and the final confrontation where Reed runs down everything they've tried over the course of months.

[davewire]

I think one of the surprising things about this issue is how few earths remain in the multiverse. With less than 24 worlds left, the number of universes has surprisingly dropped below DC's 52. I'm trying to wrap my head around this and figure out possibly just which worlds may remain.

Clearly Earths 616 and 1610 (Ultimate) still exist. Also, Earth-1218 should still be around, I hope, or else I'd have a hard time writing this post. 1218 is Marvel's designation for our world. I also presume the cinematic universe of Earth-1999999 has stuck around and will make it out of Secret Wars intact or else Marvel will suffer millions of dollars in defecit. Spider-Gwen's Earth-65 would have to survive the incursions, given how close to Secret Wars her series is being released. The Guardians of the Galaxy's future world of Earth-691 may be collapsing, but for now is still around, as is Spider-Man 2099’s Earth-928, but they may not necessarily be so as of Richards' announcement. Finally, there is the earth belonging to those shows on Disney XD.

Anyone else have thoughts on this revelation?

[bandoogiemanz]

I think one of the surprising things about this issue is how few earths remain in the multiverse. With less than 24 worlds left, the number of universes has surprisingly dropped below DC's 52. I'm trying to wrap my head around this and figure out possibly just which worlds may remain.

Clearly Earths 616 and 1610 (Ultimate) still exist. Also, Earth-1218 should still be around, I hope, or else I'd have a hard time writing this post. 1218 is Marvel's designation for our world. I also presume the cinematic universe of Earth-1999999 has stuck around and will make it out of Secret Wars intact or else Marvel will suffer millions of dollars in defecit. Spider-Gwen's Earth-65 would have to survive the incursions, given how close to Secret Wars her series is being released. The Guardians of the Galaxy's future world of Earth-691 may be collapsing, but for now is still around, as is Spider-Man 2099’s Earth-928, but they may not necessarily be so as of Richards' announcement. Finally, there is the earth belonging to those shows on Disney XD.

Anyone else have thoughts on this revelation?

Yet there are 40 different "domains" that make up Battleworld, so I'm not sure how the numbers work together there. Imo, this slightly solidifies my belief that Battleworld is already in the process of being created, so the number of universes left is kind of misleading. I think 616 and Ultimate U will be the last two domains to be added to a Battleworld that otherwise, is already up and running.

[Iron Maiden]

I don't understand what you are saying. Plenty of people know their friends or loved ones are going to die. It doesn't make one's feelings or reactions any less, when it happens. Plus, I'd be pretty damned pi$$ed if someone murdered someone I knew, much less a friend, even if they were dying of a terminal illness.

What I meant was that once he went to the Cabal to solve the problem, the Illuminati probably thought his days were numbered. Maybe that's why Doom didn't agree to help him either. He called Thanos and his confederates sub-human. I think Reed suspected that if Namor would show any weakness or try to leave the Cabal they would have killed him for it. They had proven to be ruthless killers.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

Pym handed Reed a device. Reed was shown to be manipulating equipments to show Beyonders.

Either they were showing the recordings of Beyonders, or they just made contact with them without any briefing and prep.