Avengers #41 - Spoilers

[Derek Metaltron]

I enjoyed this. Obviously, as a Black Panther fan, it kind of sucks to see a "victory" deflated yet again. Oh well, if we get another brawl it will be with Ribic on deck, but I hope both characters bury the hatchet in the Cabal's back.

Can someone walk me through Ultimate Reed? I have the basic idea that he's an evil/fallen-from-grace version of the character, but I haven't read enough of the Ultimate stuff to really get him. Did he feature heavily in Hickman's Ultimates run?

Haven't read much either but I gather he started being evil when he had Ben 'kill' Doom in Ultimanium, went full bad during a mini called Ultimate Enemy and then was in Hickman's run on Ultimates as the Maker. Then he became kinda good again during Cataclysm.

[XPac]

Absolutely awesome. His kill count has even eclipsed the Cabal. That's a crazy good feat.

I've often said the idea of an evil Reed was somehow scarier than Doom, and in some ways even Thanos. Ultimate Reed did a beautiful job of capturing that.

He's that quiet shy guy next door that's the last person you would expect to be this monster... as oppossed to a Doom who right or wrong wears it on his sleeve. It makes for a great character.

[XPac]

Haven't read much either but I gather he started being evil when he had Ben 'kill' Doom in Ultimanium, went full bad during a mini called Ultimate Enemy and then was in Hickman's run on Ultimates as the Maker. Then he became kinda good again during Cataclysm.

I stopped following the Ultimate Universe towards the end there... so is Ultimate Reed buddies with the heroes again?

[sifighter]

I enjoyed this. Obviously, as a Black Panther fan, it kind of sucks to see a "victory" deflated yet again. Oh well, if we get another brawl it will be with Ribic on deck, but I hope both characters bury the hatchet in the Cabal's back.

Can someone walk me through Ultimate Reed? I have the basic idea that he's an evil/fallen-from-grace version of the character, but I haven't read enough of the Ultimate stuff to really get him. Did he feature heavily in Hickman's Ultimates run?

In Hickman's run of Ultimate Comics Ultimates he was the main antagonist. He was actually a pretty good villain under Hickman but personally I preferred Joshua Hale Fialkov's take on him before the Cataclysm event.

[Double 0]

I stopped following the Ultimate Universe towards the end there... so is Ultimate Reed buddies with the heroes again?

Supposedly. Enough to get Fury on his side, though Fury is a rank bastard too.

[Derek Metaltron]

I stopped following the Ultimate Universe towards the end there... so is Ultimate Reed buddies with the heroes again?

I didn't read Cataclysm so I'm not sure exactly if he became full on good again but I gather he went with Miles to the 616 Universe to learn about Galactus and get help from Spidey or Reed, but Ock was in Spidey's body so he couldn't care and I suppose the FF was elsewhere?

[robreedwrites]

While I really like this issue, does anyone else feel that they have been really short lately? Last New Avengers issue also felt really short, it seems it's all set up for Secret Wars.

Yeah, this issue was particularly short.

Talking heads issues (something Hickman isn't exactly a stranger to) often do tend to feel short. The term decompressed gets thrown around a lot. I personally don't mind, though I understand why some aren't a fan of it.

This sort of thing tends to be read better as a whole, rather than issue by issue. In all fairness though I do think we get a few more action packed issues back to back, so I think this issue is somewhat of a breather before things pick up again.

I'm in the opposite boat here. The slower "talkie" issues tend to go slower for me (as well as have more re-read value), as I like to play with the way the characters "say" things (cadence, tone). Action issues tend to go faster for me unless the art makes it hard to decipher what's going on.

[sifighter]

I stopped following the Ultimate Universe towards the end there... so is Ultimate Reed buddies with the heroes again?

Not really, they still hate him, Invisible Woman especially, but they've managed to tolerate working him lately.

[Mahes]

Supposedly. Enough to get Fury on his side, though Fury is a rank bastard too.

But it'd be in character for Ultimate Fury to have Reed work for him. Who else would you go to to stop future problems?

[AcesX1X]

Ultimately, and I mean this in a literal sense, Namor has no one to blame, but himself given that it was his actions that caused T'challa to try to kill him in the first place.

Now that he's alive, thanks ironically to an alternate version of Reed Richards, it's going to be interesting to see where this feud takes us now.

i vehemently disagree. t'challa carried out an underhanded assassination attempt on namor's life while the sub-mariner was trying to save the world. not only did he let a personal vendetta compromise the illuminati's mission, but he failed at it miserably and has made himself an even worse enemy. namor can decide to be the bigger man and show t'challa mercy (once again) - but IF he decides to execute black panther over this murder attempt then he will be 100% justified in his actions.

black panther should pray for the former.

[Username taken]

In Hickman's run of Ultimate Comics Ultimates he was the main antagonist. He was actually a pretty good villain under Hickman but personally I preferred Joshua Hale Fialkov's take on him before the Cataclysm event.

How was Reed after Hickman?

I think I heard he became a hero or something again.

[jphamlore]

I called Namor surviving. Everyone was freaking out over dead Namor, and here I was going "No body" and "He's on the cover of Secret Wars"

Like I said, the presence of Thanos on the Cabal spoiled any possibility of the Cabal dying. With Infinity Gauntlet being the subject of TWO Avengers movies, Thanos is a more important character than almost all Marvel heroes.

[sifighter]

How was Reed after Hickman?

I think I heard he became a hero or something again.

Well, Fialkov's run on the Ultimates revealed that the reason he had actually turned evil was to save the world, after he had been visited by Kang(a future Susan Storm), who told him he needed to speed up the creation of the Infinity Gems which in the Ultimate Universe are created from significant traumatic events. Yes, he did help save the world in Cataclysm but because he actually committed so many crimes and hurt most the Ultimates that they simply just don't trust him.

[KOSLOX]

For all their fighting its sad that there is no Atlantis or Wakanda on battleworld. Like I've said before playing nice with the super teams has done nothing for either Tchalla or Namor. New York survives while both their populations are totally wiped out along with everyone else.

[Viteh]

For me it feels short because the plot didn't really move and we didn't really learn that much.