Fantastic Four Appreciation 2018

[Ravin' Ray]

Marvel's really teasing the FF joining Contest of Champions.

[Silvermoth]

Yay, it feels like the marvel u again!

[Crimz]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/12...nights-20th-4/

Civil War was the worst thing to happen to Reed's character.

Anyway, another FF member cameo! (It's Reed yet again, but it's still cool....)

[CaptCleghorn]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/12...nights-20th-4/

Civil War was the worst thing to happen to Reed's character.

Anyway, another FF member cameo! (It's Reed yet again, but it's still cool....)

Reed has usually been portrayed as someone who will find the best way and work for that despite the moral aspects of it. Civil War had the explanation of Reed and the Thinker discussing the possible ramifications. I'm also throwing FF 141 out there as well. As bad as the reactions turned out to be, I don't think Reed being on that side was something that went against his character.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Fantastic Four #21 Dec 1963
First appearance of the Hate-Monger in "The Hate-Monger!"
Nick Fury, now a colonel in the CIA, enlist the aid of the Fantastic Four

against the Hate-Monger

even though they are under the control of his Hate-Ray.

Script by Stan Lee, pencils by Jack Kirby, inks by George Roussos as George Bell

[Crimz]

Reed has usually been portrayed as someone who will find the best way and work for that despite the moral aspects of it. Civil War had the explanation of Reed and the Thinker discussing the possible ramifications. I'm also throwing FF 141 out there as well. As bad as the reactions turned out to be, I don't think Reed being on that side was something that went against his character.

I disagree, It was out of character imo. The Thinker subplot was added to try and redeem Reed after the Civil War mess.

Many years prior in Fantastic Four #334 and #335, The team went to Washington to help persuade the government against a superhero registration act. The story was already done years before Civil War and Reed was against it. But that I could sort of forgive if it wasn't for the absolutely cold and apathetic way Reed was portrayed. One moment highlighted it more than any other and it was the murder of Bill Foster. He died because of Reed and he didn't care, he cared more about his machine failing. Reed has never been the type not to care, he's the type to care too much. This is the man who constantly tortured himself over the accident that gave them their powers, especially Ben, and I am meant to believe that him being responsible for the death of a friend wouldn't even phase him?

The guy who constantly beats himself up over all his mistakes doesn't care when he accidentally killed someone? Someone he considered a friend? No Way. Civil War was horrible for Reed's character and still effects his portrayals to this day.

[Snoop Dogg]

Reed: The numbers aren't looking so good and the dead kids oh geez Sue and the Thor robot's broken aaah geez Bill is dead and and we can't fight the Law and and ahhhhh geez Sue please come back aaah Sue *jumps into front of gun*

Also Reed: Oh heck yeah we did it guys new world new peace new order pour one out fellas Sue's back bucko everything's coming up Strech-o. We did it, Papa Toony!

Tony: Good job, Read. My son. *kisses him on the nose, goes to go break down and cry about everything that's happened*

I don't think it was out of character or really shown he didn't care about Bill (he did pull up to the funeral when he didn't have to), and I don't think he should've shared some of the all-powerful Chessmaster Ends Justify the Means Cola that Tony was slonking because the event's not about Reed, but he certainly could've been tweaked to come off as more emotional, conflicted, and less of a gung-ho tool about everything but Sue in the main series.

"How's your brother-in-law who was beaten and is in the hospital?"
"Ehhhhh, he'll be fine."

[Crimz]

Reed: The numbers aren't looking so good and the dead kids oh geez Sue and the Thor robot's broken aaah geez Bill is dead and and we can't fight the Law and and ahhhhh geez Sue please come back aaah Sue *jumps into front of gun*

Also Reed: Oh heck yeah we did it guys new world new peace new order pour one out fellas Sue's back bucko everything's coming up Strech-o. We did it, Papa Toony!

Tony: Good job, Read. My son. *kisses him on the nose, goes to go break down and cry about everything that's happened*

I don't think it was out of character or really shown he didn't care about Bill (he did pull up to the funeral when he didn't have to), and I don't think he should've shared some of the all-powerful Chessmaster Ends Justify the Means Cola that Tony was slonking because the event's not about Reed, but he certainly could've been tweaked to come off as more emotional, conflicted, and less of a gung-ho tool about everything but Sue in the main series.

"How's your brother-in-law who was beaten and is in the hospital?"
"Ehhhhh, he'll be fine."

Of course they couldn't give him that much attention, but as you said they could've not made him come across as a colossal dick and Tony's bitch.

[U.N. Owen]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/12...nights-20th-4/

Civil War was the worst thing to happen to Reed's character.

Anyway, another FF member cameo! (It's Reed yet again, but it's still cool....)

Reed's stupidity astounds me sometimes. His love letter to Sue post-CW was the worst thing I've ever read, and I've written crap when I was in middle school.

In another universe, he decided to hand the Infinity Gauntlet to Santa Claus over the fantasticar.

[CaptCleghorn]

I disagree, It was out of character imo. The Thinker subplot was added to try and redeem Reed after the Civil War mess.

Many years prior in Fantastic Four #334 and #335, The team went to Washington to help persuade the government against a superhero registration act. The story was already done years before Civil War and Reed was against it. But that I could sort of forgive if it wasn't for the absolutely cold and apathetic way Reed was portrayed. One moment highlighted it more than any other and it was the murder of Bill Foster. He died because of Reed and he didn't care, he cared more about his machine failing. Reed has never been the type not to care, he's the type to care too much. This is the man who constantly tortured himself over the accident that gave them their powers, especially Ben, and I am meant to believe that him being responsible for the death of a friend wouldn't even phase him?

The guy who constantly beats himself up over all his mistakes doesn't care when he accidentally killed someone? Someone he considered a friend? No Way. Civil War was horrible for Reed's character and still effects his portrayals to this day.

You make good points. I didn't remember the 334. 335 stuff. And you are 100% right that the Thinker scene was CYA for Marvel. Reed was totally a jackass about Bill Foster as well. And the word jackass is glossing over what it should be.

My defense is that there was a heap of change between the FF trip to DC and Civil War. The cover-up scene with the Thinker did do a good job of explaining where Reed was coming from. Reed does care, but he will go against his feelings if he needs to. Again, the 141 situation.

I can't defend anything about the Bill Foster situation. I can maybe see a collateral damage point, but no one's character came out of that mess well. ben should have ripped Reed a new one as Ben and Bill were pretty good buddies. Ben didn't. I focus more on the writing sucked more than Reed was an a-hole. I didn't read a lot of Civil War, but the differences between everyone with powers needing to register in some books and in others, only those who wer using the powers to super-hero was a huge difference which honestly would have changed my opinion of the law based on what it actually was.

Reed has a big problem with opening up. Sue calls it on him more often than Galactus tries to eat the Earth. I'm sure Ben used to give him crap about it in college as well. Every writer focuses on this, teaches Reed a lesson, and then boom, next writer rubs their butt against the dry-erase board and Reed's lesson gets rubbed out.

Basically, I am OK with the side Reed took in Civil war. Your points about Reed's actions in defense of that view are accurate. I won't defend those actions except to throw Marvel editorial under the bus. It would have been nice if Bill Foster somehow came back after SW. Has he been mentioned at all since then?

[Snoop Dogg]

Bill should never come back, because Tom Foster got redeemed and let out of prison in Civil War II.

[Iron Maiden]

Reed has usually been portrayed as someone who will find the best way and work for that despite the moral aspects of it. Civil War had the explanation of Reed and the Thinker discussing the possible ramifications. I'm also throwing FF 141 out there as well. As bad as the reactions turned out to be, I don't think Reed being on that side was something that went against his character.

I think it did. Remember that story in the Simonson run when registration for metahumans came up? All the FF went to testify against in front of a congressional committee.

[Snoop Dogg]

I think it did. Remember that story in the Simonson run when registration for metahumans came up? All the FF went to testify against it as a committee hearing in front of a congressional committee.

The Acts of Vengeance story was really about supervillain nyuk nyuks in an MU with less teams while the catalyst for Civil War is the Marvel Universe equivalent of 9/11. Even without the secret equation room stuff, it's easy to see how stances could change.

[Master Planner]

My problem with Civil War is that the main core of the story, in order to work, needs some established character to act out of their character and established history in order to work. Tony and Reed needed to act like jerks in order to justify Cap's side,because let's face it, Ant-Reg was presented far too good.

Reed at worst,could be neutral in Civil War with ties to pro-reg,just to keep things in check,but outright Pro-Reg and supporting things like Clor,no....just no.

[Iron Maiden]

The Acts of Vengeance story was really about supervillain nyuk nyuks in an MU with less teams while the catalyst for Civil War is the Marvel Universe equivalent of 9/11. Even without the secret equation room stuff, it's easy to see how stances could change.

I don't see it that way. Simonson's story in FF does take place during the Acts of Vengeance crossover but the focus of his Fantastic Four story was political. There are quite a few pages of discourse about individual freedoms, comparing the issue of metahumans with powers to gun control. Come to think of it, I think it might have been specifically about registering mutants.

My problem with Civil War is that the main core of the story, in order to work, needs some established character to act out of their character and established history in order to work. Tony and Reed needed to act like jerks in order to justify Cap's side,because let's face it, Ant-Reg was presented far too good.

Reed at worst,could be neutral in Civil War with ties to pro-reg,just to keep things in check,but outright Pro-Reg and supporting things like Clor,no....just no.

Not only that he was instrumental in building that Negative Zone prison.

The worst part is that when you mention Clor, I can't recall any scene where Reed owned up to that one. Thor beat the tar out of Stark over it but Reed was complicit to that. Bill Foster was Ben's friend and a colleague of Reed's but IMO they didn't seem to mourn his death that I saw in any story. He was just wrapped in chains, dumped in a big trench and forgotten. IMO CW was a dark part of Reed's history.