Fantastic Four Appreciation 2018

[Crimz]

So are you speculating that Ben may have a subconscious gaydar going off for Johnny? Ben and Johnny have been through a lot and Ben is someone who can see the best in people. He sees the good in Reed, despite all that's happened. I could imagine Ben being one of the first to note that in Johnny (depending on how canonical Daken is). Ben's an interesting choice to help bring Johnny out as Ben's background is the most dealing with stereotypical homophobic activities like sports teams and the military. Ben's friendship with Reed is one where Ben was basically mentoring him socially through college.

If Johnny does come out, great. But no matter which team he ends up playing for, he still needs to grow up some.

It could be Ben sensing something or it could be advice that happens to be very useful for Johnny in the future. I'm good with either. As you said, if this development does happen then Ben giving him the push considering Ben's background does make it more interesting.

I agree that whether this happens or not Johnny needs to grow up. Franklin has now filled the role of immature teen and Johnny can't stay being a man-child.

Slott could be building up to this kind of reveal for Johnny. It's not completely out of the question.

However, what is out of the question that it would ever be teased in a solicit as a "strange new development."

It makes it sound as though there is something weird or aberrant about Johnny being gay or bi and that just isn't how they would ever promote such a reveal.

Whatever's happening to Johnny in #7, it's not anything to do with his sexuality.

Yeah, most likely.

[U.N. Owen]

We still have Franklin's sexuality to debate about since most people assume he's straight thanks to alternate universe/future romances with Rachel Summers, Hope Summers, and Katie Power.

[CaptCleghorn]

It could be Ben sensing something or it could be advice that happens to be very useful for Johnny in the future. I'm good with either. As you said, if this development does happen then Ben giving him the push considering Ben's background does make it more interesting.

I agree that whether this happens or not Johnny needs to grow up. Franklin has now filled the role of immature teen and Johnny can't stay being a man-child.

Exactly. Franklin is the new Johnny is many ways.

[Ravin' Ray]

I agree that whether this happens or not Johnny needs to grow up.

Johnny should have grown-up after dying and resurrecting in the Negative Zone, but Hickman still gave him a humorous side after that and Fraction made him pick Darla Deering somewhat irresponsibly as his last-minute replacement. Robinson did lift up his character again.

[Snoop Dogg]

I really felt John maturing when he was an Avenger, and I'm glad he still feels that way in the F4 book even though it's super early.

[CaptCleghorn]

Johnny should have grown-up after dying and resurrecting in the Negative Zone, but Hickman still gave him a humorous side after that and Fraction made him pick Darla Deering somewhat irresponsibly as his last-minute replacement. Robinson did lift up his character again.

Johnny and Reed get trapped in a character roller coaster. Reed from aloof to sociable and Johnny from childish to mature. I know plenty of mature 30 year old who have boyish senses of humor. That's not the problem. It would be his inability to handle anything grown-up. And yes, even crazy schemes and ideas are fine for Johnny. But he should be at the stage right now where he's actually doing what he needs to do with his responsibilities. Mostly, but not to the almost comical extent he had in past years.

[phantom1592]

Johnny and Reed get trapped in a character roller coaster. Reed from aloof to sociable and Johnny from childish to mature. I know plenty of mature 30 year old who have boyish senses of humor. That's not the problem. It would be his inability to handle anything grown-up. And yes, even crazy schemes and ideas are fine for Johnny. But he should be at the stage right now where he's actually doing what he needs to do with his responsibilities. Mostly, but not to the almost comical extent he had in past years.

Why?

And what would that look like?!?

Like I said about the kids... Johnny shouldn't even know what 'normal' is after the life he's lived. He's stared down gods and fought off alien invasions. He's watched his friends die... and stormed heaven to get them back.

The X-Men have had a lot of death (and rebirths... ) they've had a lot of loses... but the Fantastic Four have barely had 'minor setbacks'... and they always win in the end. There is no mess that he can get in that the combined force of his family can't get him out of...

It's not a very ADMIRABLE quality... but even from the beginning the 'marvel method' starting with the FF was to present more 'realistic' characters with flaws. At his heart Johnny is an adventurer, but more important, he's a celebrity. Just look around at the celebrities we have now. Most narcissistic and self absorbed... who consider it a grand achievement if they keep a relationship longer than 3 years...


Maturing him up too much and you'll lose a lot of the fun of him. he may become a better person... but he'd be less interesting as a character. Now that his family is back and all is right with the world again... it should logically reinforce that 'We can do anything' optimism he's been known for.

[CaptCleghorn]

Why?

And what would that look like?!?

Like I said about the kids... Johnny shouldn't even know what 'normal' is after the life he's lived. He's stared down gods and fought off alien invasions. He's watched his friends die... and stormed heaven to get them back.

The X-Men have had a lot of death (and rebirths... ) they've had a lot of loses... but the Fantastic Four have barely had 'minor setbacks'... and they always win in the end. There is no mess that he can get in that the combined force of his family can't get him out of...

It's not a very ADMIRABLE quality... but even from the beginning the 'marvel method' starting with the FF was to present more 'realistic' characters with flaws. At his heart Johnny is an adventurer, but more important, he's a celebrity. Just look around at the celebrities we have now. Most narcissistic and self absorbed... who consider it a grand achievement if they keep a relationship longer than 3 years...


Maturing him up too much and you'll lose a lot of the fun of him. he may become a better person... but he'd be less interesting as a character. Now that his family is back and all is right with the world again... it should logically reinforce that 'We can do anything' optimism he's been known for.

The aging of the kids is the main emphasis here. I can certainly see wanting to see ages locked into a steady state. But the kids are older. And with Franklin at 13-14, he's very close to where Johnny was on day one of the FF adventures (16, I assume). I love Franklin "fixing" his hair. Not the hair., but him doing it. More of that fits in with a young teenager.

Johnny can still play video games or whatever immature stuff he likes to do, but shouldn't he be more mature than Franklin? No one expects Johnny to cross all his Ts and dot his Is but stuff like remembering to activate the HQ security system is a good thing he should be able to handle. I want him to still tease Ben. But it's when he croisses the line from silly to stupid that seems wrong for him.

I turned 30, I had a nice job, a wife, and a kid on the way. Somehow, I was in many ways considered immature. Johnny could be very similar.

As to the confidence attitude, Slott has used that a lot in the first arc. That can be reflected as a quiet confidence, a cocky attitude, or a spiritual faith. They've always come back, but so has pretty much everybody else in superhero comic books. Johnny's potentially cocky. Ben never gives up. Reed has a Kirkian disbelief in a "no-win" scenario.

I think the FF's celebrity status has been underutilized. That's a potential part of their mystique that most modern writer have ignored and that's a shame. Would Johnny be a child-star train wreck, or would he shape up, even if being a little (or a lot) silly?

You are bringing up many good points here and although i suspect we may end up at an I like A; you like B impasse, the conversation has merit.

[phantom1592]

The aging of the kids is the main emphasis here. I can certainly see wanting to see ages locked into a steady state. But the kids are older. And with Franklin at 13-14, he's very close to where Johnny was on day one of the FF adventures (16, I assume). I love Franklin "fixing" his hair. Not the hair., but him doing it. More of that fits in with a young teenager.

Johnny can still play video games or whatever immature stuff he likes to do, but shouldn't he be more mature than Franklin?

My gut says no... But that's more because of Franklin. Franklin is one of those characters I could never write. He should not be an average kid with average problems... odds are he shouldn't even be written as human. For all intents and purposes Franklin is a god. He creates universes on a whim... rewrites reality when he pleases... He's literally stared down galactus and Galactus blinked first... That too me strikes me as the more mature character. the one who can see and understand the building blocks of reality should have a more 'big picture' mentality than Johnny.

No one expects Johnny to cross all his Ts and dot his Is but stuff like remembering to activate the HQ security system is a good thing he should be able to handle. I want him to still tease Ben. But it's when he croisses the line from silly to stupid that seems wrong for him.

I'll agree with all that.

I turned 30, I had a nice job, a wife, and a kid on the way. Somehow, I was in many ways considered immature. Johnny could be very similar.

I'm 40 and I have none of those :P I picture Johnny more THAT way... I just never see him putting any kind of relationship first and settling down. I see him to eager for adventure and taking off in the middle of the date to fight the aliens or disappearing for 3 weeks without leaving note because time moves different in other dimensions...

I do think it's interesting that he's had a few failed relationships... but at the core it wasn't really HIM that was the issue. Frankie dumped him for Galactus… Alicia turned out to be a Skrull…

WHICH I think is the cause of any 'sadness' during this wedding. There's just no good way to see your best buddy up there marrying the same woman you married... Even if you don't have real feelings for the THIS version of her... and you're wishing the best for Ben.... How do you NOT think back to when she was up there in that dress with you?? There HAS to be some serious conflicting emotions bouncing around. Even if it's just remembering the betrayal later... That's just surreal.

As to the confidence attitude, Slott has used that a lot in the first arc. That can be reflected as a quiet confidence, a cocky attitude, or a spiritual faith. They've always come back, but so has pretty much everybody else in superhero comic books. Johnny's potentially cocky. Ben never gives up. Reed has a Kirkian disbelief in a "no-win" scenario.

I think the FF's celebrity status has been underutilized. That's a potential part of their mystique that most modern writer have ignored and that's a shame. Would Johnny be a child-star train wreck, or would he shape up, even if being a little (or a lot) silly?

You are bringing up many good points here and although i suspect we may end up at an I like A; you like B impasse, the conversation has merit.

Another thing I'd love to see explored more... Reed and Ben's 'friendship'. Talk about two guys who have NOTHING in common... Whether they go with a modern 'Weak nerd needs big jock to protect him', or the long retconned 'served together in WWII'... There really isn't a lot ot that friendship that should be sticking after all these years of ups and downs... Reed tends to need Ben's muscle... but tends to focus so much on the family and the science that causes Ben to feel like a moron whenever he opens his mouth...

I've always seen a closer friendship between Johnny and Ben than I ever have Reed and Ben. They may bicker a lot, but they're also the ones more likely to be playing video games on the couch.


I want to see more of Reed and Ben just hanging out... Talking about sports or having poker games... Granted Reed will be all about the statistics but I'd love an adventure or two with just Reed and Ben where they treat each other like equals and less like the big boss and the hired help


I really hope Slott leans into that kind of stuff.

[U.N. Owen]

Someone pointed out online that the kids were useless last issue. My first reaction was “well duh”, but this poster raised a good and valid fear that the kids are not going to be of much use since Franklin is of no use without his Mana bar reality warping powers and Valeria might just be reduced to Reed’s lab assistant.

Where to for the kids?

[Snoop Dogg]

Someone pointed out online that the kids were useless last issue. My first reaction was “well duh”, but this poster raised a good and valid fear that the kids are not going to be of much use since Franklin is of no use without his Mana bar reality warping powers and Valeria might just be reduced to Reed’s lab assistant.

Where to for the kids?

What makes Franklin a good character aren't his powers and none of his best stories are about them (unless you count that future Frank scene from Hickman). He doesn't have to be useful for the sci-fi stuff, he has to be there for the family stuff. Valeria should be important to both, but there was an entire beat dedicated to Valeria not downplaying her own intellect and how important it is, plus she singlehandedly resolved the conflict in #4, so I think she'll be fine.

[Ravin' Ray]

https://www.alexrossart.com/MARVELOC...ive_p_690.html

[Crimz]

https://www.alexrossart.com/MARVELOC...ive_p_690.html

I need that as a poster. Like right now.

[danielsan52]

Alicia turned out to be a Skrull…

Why has Lyja's character been downgraded to just being a Skrull??!?

She spent quite a bit of time with the FF and had an on again-off again relationship with Johnny.

She even married him in the MC2 Universe and became Miss Fantastic.

[Triniking1234]

https://www.alexrossart.com/MARVELOC...ive_p_690.html

I need a textless version of this.