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  1. #1351
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Fraction had a good idea getting the F4 away from the Baxter Building There was a pretty weak reasing for it, but the general idea was a different take. The FF (Future Foundation) was a more fun take (Mike Allred art), despite Scott Lang's angst over his daughter's death.

    Basically, Fraction - different take, not quite as well done.
    Robinson was done better, but had nothing different and his F4 was by the numbers.

    Both writers were a letdown after Hickman.
    Thanks for the input. I think I'll give it a read but I won't purchase the omnibus. Rather use that money for the third Stan Lee/Jack Kirby omnibus.

  2. #1352
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanGreyForever View Post
    Thanks for the input. I think I'll give it a read but I won't purchase the omnibus. Rather use that money for the third Stan Lee/Jack Kirby omnibus.
    This is, of course, just my opinion. I think it is a pretty common one with F4 fans though.

  3. #1353
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    Fraction and Robinson had decent runs, better than some. Hickman was a hard act to follow, though, so I think they look poor only by comparison. If you haven't read Mark Waid's run, do so. It's one of the best, up there with Lee/Kirby, Hickman, and Byrne IMO. To be honest, I kind of enjoyed Millar's run too. It was...well, it was Mark Millar. Plenty of big ideas, lots of snark, and some wrong notes with characterization. But that Bryan Hitch artwork sure was pretty!

  4. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul O'Neal View Post
    Fraction and Robinson had decent runs, better than some. Hickman was a hard act to follow, though, so I think they look poor only by comparison. If you haven't read Mark Waid's run, do so. It's one of the best, up there with Lee/Kirby, Hickman, and Byrne IMO. To be honest, I kind of enjoyed Millar's run too. It was...well, it was Mark Millar. Plenty of big ideas, lots of snark, and some wrong notes with characterization. But that Bryan Hitch artwork sure was pretty!
    I've read the main ones like Lee/Kirby, Byrne, Waid, and Hickman. I've read Millar too but I wasn't a fan at all. I didn't care much for the Death of the Invisible Woman story, nor the Thing's love interest/fiance, or that new villain introduced who rivaled Doom. Wasn't Millar the one who killed Aunt Petunia? I honestly didn't care much for Nu-World at first either but it grew on me during Hickman's run.

  5. #1355
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanGreyForever View Post
    I've read the main ones like Lee/Kirby, Byrne, Waid, and Hickman. I've read Millar too but I wasn't a fan at all. I didn't care much for the Death of the Invisible Woman story, nor the Thing's love interest/fiance, or that new villain introduced who rivaled Doom. Wasn't Millar the one who killed Aunt Petunia? I honestly didn't care much for Nu-World at first either but it grew on me during Hickman's run.
    Never read Millar's run and now I don't plan to.
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  6. #1356

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul O'Neal View Post
    Fraction and Robinson had decent runs, better than some. Hickman was a hard act to follow, though, so I think they look poor only by comparison. If you haven't read Mark Waid's run, do so. It's one of the best, up there with Lee/Kirby, Hickman, and Byrne IMO. To be honest, I kind of enjoyed Millar's run too. It was...well, it was Mark Millar. Plenty of big ideas, lots of snark, and some wrong notes with characterization. But that Bryan Hitch artwork sure was pretty!
    I still need to finish Waid's FF run. What I've read of the single volume I bought so far was pretty amazing.

  7. #1357
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    This sums up the importance and value of the FF for me:

    https://fyeahfantasticfour.tumblr.co...ersary-special

    I didn't put the images here because it would take several posts.
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  8. #1358
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    Tried to do a little update on this old pin up. One that maybe sums up some feelings as of late…



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  9. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanGreyForever View Post
    I've read the main ones like Lee/Kirby, Byrne, Waid, and Hickman. I've read Millar too but I wasn't a fan at all. I didn't care much for the Death of the Invisible Woman story, nor the Thing's love interest/fiance, or that new villain introduced who rivaled Doom. Wasn't Millar the one who killed Aunt Petunia? I honestly didn't care much for Nu-World at first either but it grew on me during Hickman's run.
    I agree, the only aspects I liked was Reed visiting his cousin in Scottland for Christmas and making Valeria supersmart. Even then the execution was rather poor after it happened artists forgot Franklin is supposed to be five years older than Valeria and started drawing him as the younger one.

  10. #1360
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, that includes their most recent appearance in Amazing Spider-Man (a couple of issues into the current volume) when Peter showed Johnny the statue of the FF in the Baxter Building. Franklin was shown his correct age, but Val was taller and had breasts, she looked at least 12! She's not supposed to be older than 4.

  11. #1361
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone knows or cares how old Franklin is/supossed to be. From Hickman's run, we see Franklin's birthday and he has 5 candles on the cake. Later during Future Foundation, Valeria gives her age as 3.




    I checked the Q&A of Byrne's website and he said that there was a lot of inconsistency before he came on the book. Like Digifiend said with Valeria looking 12, Byrne said previous artists had Franklin with the appearance of a 12 year old as well. Byrne put Franklin's age between 4 and 5. Because he was on the title for 6 years and internally (his own chronology) there were several time jumps between months and I believe 2 Christman holidays shown. Byrne used the "Seven Year Rule" in framing his stories, at that point in time.


    I forget what Marvel's exact number for their compressed/sliding timeline is now, but Franklin Richard's age is always a good anchor to measure elapsed time and how much TPTB at Marvel don't care. Around the time of Franklin's birth, Peter was still a Freshman in college and had just learned about his parents history, Mar-Vell had recently come to Cape Canaveral, the Avengers had just crossed swords with Ultron for the first time, Lorna had made he debut etc. When you think about the time that's elapsed for all these characters in their personal lives and in the outside world (real world events and technology), the inconsistent ages of the children of these heroes is striking.


    Look no further than Luna Maximoff, for further confirmation. Luna was born in FF #240, when Franklin was already a toddler/adolescent. In Son of M though, Luna's age is given as 6.




    How can Luna be older than Franklin?! Hehe

  12. #1362
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Seven Year Rule? Isn't the sliding timescale more like 1:4?

    One thing's for sure. Frank and Val both need an age up when the FF return. Val was said to be three as early as the first Civil War, so she should be at least six now. Franklin should be in his teens already, to match the younger members of the Power Pack who have already been aged up (in their most recent appearance, during Civil War II, Julie was mistakenly said to be a couple of years younger than she should be, at 16 instead of 18, while the younger two were something like 12-13. Alex, of course, was no-show, due to being part of the Future Foundation, but he was last stated to be 19).
    Last edited by Digifiend; 07-05-2017 at 10:16 AM.

  13. #1363
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Seven Year Rule? Isn't the sliding timescale more like 1:4?
    When Byrne was writing in the 80s, the Seven Year Rule was how they compressed everything that had happened up to that point. Rougly 20 years since Marvel started with the FF flying into space and Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man. Peter and Johnny are the same age. With both begining their started super heroing at 14.

    Now though, 50+ years after the FF and Spidey got their starts, writers/editors use ratios to fit it all in their lopsided timeline.

  14. #1364
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  15. #1365
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    When Byrne was writing in the 80s, the Seven Year Rule was how they compressed everything that had happened up to that point. Rougly 20 years since Marvel started with the FF flying into space and Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man. Peter and Johnny are the same age. With both begining their started super heroing at 14.

    Now though, 50+ years after the FF and Spidey got their starts, writers/editors use ratios to fit it all in their lopsided timeline.
    15. Peter was 15 when he became Spider-Man. Look at Civil War when he revealed his secret identity.

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