What killed the Flash line's expansion?

[godisawesome]

We had just re-expanded the family in another Rebirth, with the arguable advantage of Wally having been far more successful than Kyle in comparison in Green Lantern, plus the fundamental legacy nature of the Flash ID in the Post Crisis universe. And there were a total of three characters who had the ability to hold a solo comic in the modern era.

So what killed it? Was it just a lack of faith in a non-Johns helmed franchise? Was it favoritism for Barry trumping the potential? Was it the perception that Wally and Bart had failed in their latest solo runs? Was it just a perfect storm of an artist heavy team with a new continuity?

What do you guys think? Why don't we have a Speed Force book?

[mr_crisp]

Was it favoritism for Barry trumping the potential?

Favoritism? I want to know who demanded the return of Barry Allen.

[resipsaloquitur]

Favoritism? I want to know who demanded the return of Barry Allen.

It sure wasn't Mark Waid. He had a comic called "The Return of Barry Allen" and even he didn't want the return of Barry Allen.

[Broddie]

The shoehorning of Flashpoint being the basis of the reboot is what killed it. It seems like and has been insinuated in interviews and articles since then that Johns entire vision for The Flash franchise during his second run on the character (which included a Speed Force book) was side tracked by that abrupt change at the end of the plotting there. Before that all signs were pointing to The Flash family in general moving a lot more as a unit across the DCU and not just as individuals. On top of a Speed Force book we probably would've gotten another Bart Allen solo book.

[MajorHoy]

The Geoff Johns' retcon of Barry's Mom being killed when Barry was a kid was probably a definite sign the "franchise" idea was doomed.

[hunter_peterson]

The Geoff Johns' retcon of Barry's Mom being killed when Barry was a kid was probably a definite sign the "franchise" idea was doomed.

I don't know, that works very well in the show. I think it's just a case of the reboot taking the main players off the table. Now, if we were to get a Wally West book, that would be cool. He'd be a great Spider-Man type character for DC, with Linda Park as his Mary Jane. Or a Jay Garrick book having him deal with supernatural Flash rogues like the E2 Shade would be cool. Some options now, but no follow-through.

[Pharozonk]

The Geoff Johns' retcon of Barry's Mom being killed when Barry was a kid was probably a definite sign the "franchise" idea was doomed.

That was the moment when it was clear that they were trying to turn Barry into Peter Parker. After seeing a few episodes of the TV show, it's even more evident.

[Ascended]

Well, it can be assumed that DC thought Flash: Rebirth would be as well received as Green Lantern: Rebirth. And it wasnt. Not even a little bit.

So we have a franchise where Wally had been the undisputed main character for a whole generation of fans. We had Barry's return not being as celebrated as DC likely thought it would be (because Rebirth was poorly done, not because people were against Barry's return). It could very well be that DC felt they needed to keep Wally on the sidelines until Barry got his feet under him (so to speak) so as not to inadvertently challenge his position as "king of the franchise". And as Johns' run went along, it became more and more evident that people were not warming up to it as well as they had Hal's return. Again, not because of Barry himself, but because Johns just didnt seem to be hitting the right chords with a lot of readers.

So the Speed Force stuff kept getting pushed back, and before long the reboot became a thing and I imagine by that point the general mindset was "Why bother?" And for my money, they'd have been right. Giving us a book featuring Wally and the extended Flash family, only to take it away due to the 52? I'd have been pissed.

What DC should have done was keep Wally on the table in the first place. They shot themselves in the foot pretty badly by removing him from history when they rebooted.

[Kid A]

The departure of Johns.

I mean look at the GL line. The way it's crumbled since Johns left speaks for itself.

[Blacksun]

Favoritism? I want to know who demanded the return of Barry Allen.

yes, favoritism. probably was johns and didio.

I don't know why so much obssesion with iconic Barry. Lobdell threw Bart on the mud. Reboot made jay garrick in earth 2 and wally into a 12 year old kid and a sad stereotype.

mant chances missed.

The departure of Johns.

I mean look at the GL line. The way it's crumbled since Johns left speaks for itself.

No, it has to do with johns but not his departure. but his obssesion with silver age characters in detriment of all rest.

it's not different from when they choose barbara over stephanie or cass. it played well in the end, but could be better..

[The Kid]

Johns was a huge Wally West fan so I don't blame it on him. it really was DC's decision to remove Wally from the DCU

[The_Greatest_Username]

I wouldn't say that Johns is obsessed with Silver Age characters. His reboot of Hawkman brought back the Golden Age version, not the Silver Age.
Also, choosing Barbara over Stephanie worked out to the benefit of the company (this is not an opinion on the quality of the characters, just the sales of their books). I think this has to do with Barbara largely being associated as Batgirl in outside media even when she isn't Batgirl in the comics. Contrast with this with the Flash, Wally took over as the Flash in outside media AND the comics while Barry was gone. As others are saying, this would create a whole generation of fans who think of Wally as THE Flash, so when DC sets out to degrade Wally, it shouldn't come as a surprise when fans don't warm up to the idea.
The potential for a Flash franchise has largely been snuffed out since Rebirth and it was further cemented with the reboot. There aren't any other super-characters for fans to get interested in with the Flash's world. Wally is unrecognizable and pretty unlikeable, Bart wasn't actually Bart, Jesse Quick doesn't exist, Jay is in another world, etc...

I would hope that DC would redo the Flash-line post-Convergence, but with no creative team change, there isn't much of a point in it, sadly.

[LoneNecromancer]

No, it has to do with johns but not his departure. but his obssesion with silver age characters in detriment of all rest.

How did Johns kill the Flash line's expansion when he started the expansion? Johns was a Wally West fan too, I may be wrong but I thought he wrote a pretty successful run for him.

[Blacksun]

I wouldn't say that Johns is obsessed with Silver Age characters. His reboot of Hawkman brought back the Golden Age version, not the Silver Age.
Also, choosing Barbara over Stephanie worked out to the benefit of the company (this is not an opinion on the quality of the characters, just the sales of their books). I think this has to do with Barbara largely being associated as Batgirl in outside media even when she isn't Batgirl in the comics. Contrast with this with the Flash, Wally took over as the Flash in outside media AND the comics while Barry was gone. As others are saying, this would create a whole generation of fans who think of Wally as THE Flash, so when DC sets out to degrade Wally, it shouldn't come as a surprise when fans don't warm up to the idea.
The potential for a Flash franchise has largely been snuffed out since Rebirth and it was further cemented with the reboot. There aren't any other super-characters for fans to get interested in with the Flash's world. Wally is unrecognizable and pretty unlikeable, Bart wasn't actually Bart, Jesse Quick doesn't exist, Jay is in another world, etc...

I would hope that DC would redo the Flash-line post-Convergence, but with no creative team change, there isn't much of a point in it, sadly.

Well they never gave cass or stephanie a chance to be batgirl on others media. the batgirl on batman & robin was only called barbara and was blond. sure there is the cartoons, but I still think is not a good reason for scrap the new generation stephanie and cassandra cain. Like people of my age watched batman cartoons but hadn't problem with stephanie, she was the batgirl that many fell in love.
barbara as oracle was a grown up woman, full of herself, started her own team, had two apprentices. Now I see her in her own book and think it would serve better stephanie. all her character development was undone and comics lost in diversity.

maybe johns isn't too much on silver age like I think, but it still is problematic.

How did Johns kill the Flash line's expansion when he started the expansion? Johns was a Wally West fan too, I may be wrong but I thought he wrote a pretty successful run for him.

well he brought back Barry Allen and put wally on the shadows. not the biggest fan, it seems

[M L A]

Favoritism? I want to know who demanded the return of Barry Allen.

According to Ethan Van Sciver, he pestered Didio and others into doing it because he wanted to draw it and he loves Barry.

http://www.comicosity.com/interview-...r-dc-universe/