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  1. #10546

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMunroe View Post
    I agree with you and Soulsword. Lorna founding her own ideologically unique team somewhat divorced from the main branch but with a predominant focus on mutant politics, for me, is about the only way forward for the character. At this point I think it's just a matter of time.
    I agree that her involvement in mutant politics is the only real way forward for the character to get out of the rut.

    Hopefully she doesn't get lost in any upcoming shuffle. Not that it matters a great deal but I knew her stint as "leader" in XMB was going to be lackluster/a dud mainly because that writer hasn't demonstrated an understanding of the fulcrum or core fundamentals of Lorna's character and he doesn't seem all that much interested in having her potentially supersede Magneto in terms of prominence imo.
    There has been a rather major lack of understanding of her core fundamentals as a character and it hobbled her past year on Blue rather significantly I would agree. It could have been the run that showed that Magneto and Polaris can both exist at the same time while both being philosophically interesting in their own right. Imagine them talking about what they felt about Genosha's destruction or mutants in the world of man? But, it was not to be.

    Bunn's Magneto had vastly more interesting conversations with Xorn in Uncanny X-Men. There were some nice scenes, but the Lorna and Magneto conversations have been extremely light on the deep stuff that would be remembered in 10 or 20 years.

    Not to derail the thread but I just finished re-reading Morrison's run and I had the pleasure of reading Ambient Magnetic Fields again and I thought it was somewhat tragic that Morrison didn't spend more time working with and on Lorna's character as she seemed like the type of individual that he'd have a propensity towards writing exceptionally. What did you think of Morrison's depiction of Jean Grey--not to derail the thread?
    I was recently reading an article from this time in 2002 by Morrison and he spelled out some of his thoughts, but in no interview has he gone in depth on the topic of that story line and why he did some of the things he did there which proved so pivotal for the character which is the biggest yet untold story of her history as she approaches her 50th anniversary.

    NRAMA: Speaking of one of those villains of the X-Men’s “family,” is the “ultimate Magneto” storyline still in the works? If so, how? From all appearances, it looks like Magneto was killed in the early moments of the attack on Genosha.

    GM: “Yes. Magneto was killed in Genosha but that doesn't mean his influence can't be felt. Che Guevara was killed in Bolivia in 1967 but he still sells T-shirts.

    “Much of the second year of New X-Men is looking at what happens to superheroes when there are no more villains left to fight and where struggles become more ambiguous and deadly; in the aftermath of Magneto's death and the destruction of Genosha, the mutant race is thrown into confusion and self-doubt. Old boundaries crumble, new alliances are forged and it becomes harder to tell the good guys from the bad.

    “What happens when there's a moral vacuum left to be filled? When there's no more Magneto left to oppose Xavier's dream, where will the inevitable opposition come from? And could it be that Xavier's 'dream' is in dire need of someone to oppose it? “Getting rid of Magneto was necessary to clear the decks for new possibilities and more frightening threats.”

    NRAMA: Will Havok and Polaris return?

    GM: “Havok appears in Chuck's book and Polaris turns up in New X-Men #132, the Genosha story.

    https://sites.google.com/site/deepsp...on-talks-filth
    Austen had his plans already spelled out to write Lorna like she was in 1991 X-Factor, marry her to Havok and dump her in limbo. That one issue by Morrison proved the pivot point of Austen's entire run. It bothered Austen a fair bit that in his view the best ideas for Lorna he didn't come up with, but he did decide to really try to build upon.

    Hi Chuck, I really liked your work on Uncanny X-Men, especially with what you did with Polaris. You turned her from a character that was always in the background who I hardly ever noticed into one of my favorite characters and you managed to give her character a nice edge. One thing I was wondering is how the decision to make Polaris Magneto’s daughter again came down? Was that Morrison or your idea?

    Austen: I believe it was Grant’s. But the roots went much further back, though others can tell you specifically when and where, what issues, what the circumstances were, which page, what panels, what characters, the costumes they were wearing, who lettered it, and possibly even the type of printer it was printed on.

    There was a storyline done years ago where she was ‘revealed’ to be Magneto’s daughter, but then it was undone, or proven not to be true, or only happened in one of Scarlet Witch’s continuity-scrubbing bubbles, or something. Maybe in the Neal Adams Roy Thomas run. I researched it at the time, but I’ve since forgotten. I needed to memorize someone’s phone number, and that’s the only brain space I had available.

    Apparently Grant made a decision to go back to it, but I’m not sure whose actual idea it was: his, Marvel’s, or God’s acting through them both as a conduit—I assume his, because he was Grant Morrison, and he had the power, the power of Hoodoo—all I can tell you is that the germ of the idea wasn’t mine.

    I had intended to use Polaris in my run from the beginning, keep her much as she’d been when I’d read about her in X-Factor and other places, then eventually marry her off to Alex, happily ever after—at least until some other writer came along and made them related to Satan. It was a surprise to me when she appeared in Grant’s X-Men—crazy, muttering to herself, and wandering in the radioactive mud. We’d just had coffee the previous day, and she seemed fine. Just shows how you can miss the little signs.

    Once she’d appeared as Nutso Profundo I had to rewrite some of my scripts, and went with Lorna the edgier, more volatile and unpredictable Looney Tunes with a heart of gold. It made a certain amount of sense, and I agree with you, she became more interesting than she had been. CURSE YOU GRANT MORRISON AND YOUR GENIUS! He was always making me look bad for my lack of imagination. I think he did it on purpose.

    If Lorna had been on Genosha when it was destroyed, that kind of devastation likley would have changed her, deeply, although I’m sure she still could have had kids, a marriage, and sold Tupperware in her spare time if only I had let her. I decided not to, because I’m a dick, that way.

    So it wasn’t planned, it wasn’t actually my idea, but I ran with it and thought it was a good direction and an interesting one. And, tellingly, people both credit, and blame me for the change.

    If you liked it, I did it. If not, it’s Grant’s fault.

    See how easy that is?

    http://web.archive.org/web/200806122...enonline.com/?
    What Austen did was unique in the annals of Lorna's history, in that vast bulk of writers simply won't take and follow up on a great idea when handed to them that doesn't happen to be their own and certainly not change everything they have planned and make another writers work the pivot point of their run for the character.

    I will tell you New X-Men 132 by Grant Morrison and Uncanny X-Men 443 by Chuck Austen at the time did receive a huge deal of criticism from start of the 1990s X-Factor fans.



    Case in point

    However, those issues got the character out of the rut she was stuck in, crystallized what the character is about and set the characters popularity on fire and in the end provide the fundamental core to the Lorna being written right now in The Gifted. Oh, Matt Nix as well originally was going to kill Lorna off first episode then was going to write her as a sort of girlfriend character in his own words to accentuate Eclipse's story. Eventually after thinking about it he and others on the show realized what they have here is really a pearl covered in a lot of crappy comic depictions that just use the character to further other characters stories.

    Uncanny X-Men 443 and New X-Men 132 did not use her to further any other characters stories and instead dealt with the issue of her and legacy. The two issues combined became the entire basis for The Bandlands WATXM episode and lives on in TV. While its more for kids then the source material, TV writers and producers have proven pretty good at being able to peel away good ideas from shitty ones for Lorna.



    I believe Morrison's high level of interest in Emma Frost and Jean kind of precluded Lorna being a regular on the title, but it would have been nice if there was more crossovers as Austen did write Emma Frost well and vice versa for Morrison and both for Lorna clearly.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-13-2018 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #10547
    Fantastic Member DavidMunroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I agree its the only real way forward for the character.



    There has been a rather major lack of understanding of her core fundamentals as a character and it hobbled her past year on Blue rather significantly I would agree. It could have been the run that showed that Magneto and Polaris can both exist at the same time while both being philosophically interesting in their own right. Imagine them talking about what they felt about Genosha's destruction or mutants in the world of man? But, it was not to be.

    Bunn's Magneto had vastly more interesting conversations with Xorn in Uncanny X-Men then he has ever had with Lorna to date.



    I was recently reading an article from this time in 2002 by Morrison and he spelled out some of his thoughts, but in no interview has he gone in depth on the topic of that story line and why he did some of the things he did there which proved so pivotal for the character which is the biggest yet untold story of her history as she approaches her 50th anniversary.



    Austen had his plans already spelled out to write Lorna like she was in 1991 X-Factor, marry her to Havok and dump her in limbo. That one issue by Morrison proved the fulcrum of Austen's entire run. It bothered Austen to no end in his mind the best ideas for Lorna he didn't come up with, but Grant Morrison did.



    What Austen did was unique in the annals of Lorna's history though in that most writers simply won't take and follow up on a great idea when handed to them that doesn't happen to be their own and certainly not change everything they have planned and make another writers work the pivot point of their run for the character.

    I will tell you New X-Men 132 by Grant Morrison and Uncanny X-Men 443 by Chuck Austen at the time did receive a huge deal of criticism from 80s and start of the 1990s X-Factor fans.



    Case in point

    However, those issues got the character out of the rut she was stuck in, crystallized what the character is about and set the characters popularity on fire and in the end provide the fundamental core to the Lorna being written right now in The Gifted. Oh, Matt Nix as well originally was going to kill Lorna off first episode then was going to write her as a sort of girlfriend character in his own words to accentuate Eclipse's story. Eventually after thinking about it he and others on the show realized what they have here is really a pearl covered in a lot of crappy comic depictions that just use the character to further other characters stories.

    Uncanny X-Men 443 and New X-Men 132 did not use her to further any other characters stories and instead dealt with the issue of her and legacy. The two issues combined became the entire basis for The Bandlands WATXM episode and lives on in TV. While its more for kids then the source material, TV writers and producers have proven pretty good at being able to peel away good ideas from shitty ones for Lorna.



    I believe Morrison's interest in Emma Frost kind of precluded her being a regular on the title, but it would have been nice if there was more crossovers as Austen did write Emma Frost pretty well and vice versa for Morrison and Lorna clearly.
    I agree. I think the immensity of the Genoshan genocide has been shockingly underplayed/mitigated/delegitimized in-universe as far as reactions and attempts from the general superhero community to provide aid and relief is concerned. I forsee Lorna in a round about way confronting the Avengers for their lack of support and assistance following the tragedy and her questioning their integrity as it pertains to protecting mutants as well as humans.

    Thank you very much for providing those interviews. It's a shame that Grant hasn't gone into further detail about that story considering how much it transformed and revitalized the character.

    Quite shocked at the previously proposed plans for Lorna on The Gifted. Whilst I'm happy about the visibility its accorded the character for the long run, I wonder why such an idea was even considered in the first place?

  3. #10548

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMunroe View Post
    I agree. I think the immensity of the Genoshan genocide has been shockingly underplayed/mitigated/delegitimized in-universe as far as reactions and attempts from the general superhero community to provide aid and relief is concerned. I forsee Lorna in a round about way confronting the Avengers for their lack of support and assistance following the tragedy and her questioning their integrity as it pertains to protecting mutants as well as humans.

    Thank you very much for providing those interviews. It's a shame that Grant hasn't gone into further detail about that story considering how much it transformed and revitalized the character.

    Quite shocked at the previously proposed plans for Lorna on The Gifted. Whilst I'm happy about the visibility its accorded the character for the long run, I wonder why such an idea was even considered in the first place?
    I suspect the kill her off first episode idea was a hold over from their original Hellfire Club TV show plans. Lorna was going to be brought onto the new rebooted X-Men films, but Singer coming on for DOFP put that on hold (though I believe the little girl was meant to be Lorna as he said Wanda her sister was upstairs) Fassbender had the idea to do the Anya story and its adaption pretty much killed Lorna appearing in the next few x-films at which point in time she was sent into Matt Nix's land where the first show was supposed to be called Hellfire and set in the 60s.

    But, word was it had too many characters and too many running plots for Fox and I would bet killing Lorna may have been part of them trying to pair it down to sell it. Then the rebooted idea would be a grounded modern story which would later introduce the Hellfire Club. Mind you the original plans for Lorna then changed to her role in the comics for a very long time as the green haired girlfriend of a male character to accentuate his story.

    Why did it change? Unknown, perhaps it was during the filming of the pilot, perhaps earlier, but they decided on a different track with her.



    In terms of the comics yes one of the biggest untold stories for the character and her history is Morrison's thoughts behind New X-Men 132. The second involves her 1960s story and why certain retcons happened.

    The importance of the Genoshan genocide I agree has been underplayed in general and its more egregious in the case of Lorna then anything else because its such a pivot point for the character and its certainly been played up hard as an important part of Magneto's story the past several years on his ongoing and Uncanny X-Men and various other titles he has been in.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-13-2018 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #10549
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Would y'all say that the Genosha genocide is the most defining moment in her character's history? To me it is. I think it caused the greatest turning point in the direction her character was going.

  5. #10550
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-14-2018 at 12:27 AM.

  6. #10551

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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderbytes View Post
    Would y'all say that the Genosha genocide is the most defining moment in her character's history? To me it is. I think it caused the greatest turning point in the direction her character was going.
    I would say it most certainly is given the complete pivot point in the direction of the character and her history. The moment could have been a one off and forgotten about issue as far as Lorna's history is concerned if the next writer didn't change his scripts and decide to make it the central focus of his run with the character.

    You don't see that much in Lorna's history as a character. Milligan's best issues with Lorna were his first arc where he sort of continued with the pathos of the Morrison/Austen era in mind, but went off the rails once he decided he wanted a completely new guiding outline and pathos and made his new stories like what Lorna saw in space that destabilized her mind all important replacement motivation.

    Same for PAD and his excellent X-Factor 243 and telling of her origins that should have existed alongside Genosha rather then as a total replacement motivating life feature.

    Writers in modern times understandably want their moment that helps define Lorna, but rather then moments that exist alongside it they are often treated as replacement pathos and has been one of her biggest modern problems in the comics.

    The fallout like her family development has a large continuing impact, but the loss of the genocide itself as a sort of unified background life feature from a grand view has hobbled things for the character at least in the comics. But, many of the grand ideas it brought up live on in the most visible depictions of her.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-13-2018 at 11:51 PM.

  7. #10552
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    It would be nice for Lorna to show up in a video game again. I went to redownload that DoFP game the other day but it was taken out of the App Store.

  8. #10553

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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderbytes View Post
    It would be nice for Lorna to show up in a video game again. I went to redownload that DoFP game the other day but it was taken out of the App Store.
    I have it still on one IPad left over, but yes it’s been pulled from the store. We had a chance to have a Lorna in the last Marvel MMO, but we were told an individual designer on her own time was working Polaris so when a creator asked if near term we wanted a figure that just had Magneto’s powers and Lorna’s skin like Marvel Legos the answer from fans was no that she has her own wardrobe and they wanted the time spent to get it right. The designer who was working on Polaris was let go along with others and the game was canceled first.

    What games would you like Lorna in these days?

  9. #10554
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    I thought I still had the game on my old iPad as well, unfortunately I was wrong.
    It’s also a shame about Marvel Heroes too, Lorna would've been a great addition there visually and it would be nice to see her in an environment where other characters that she has a history with or connection to(Magneto, Iceman, Scarlet Witch, etc...) interact with her vocally.

    Going forward, I would definitely try to champion her inclusion in games like Marvel Future Fight where they have literally hundreds of characters and are just now adding the X-Men.
    The Square Enix game to me sounds like a set up for something like Marvel Heroes where you can choose from a large cast that they continuously add to. I’m not sure about her chances of being playable there are because from the rumors, the only X-Women they’ve made models for are Storm and Jean (who was designated as Marvel Girl). However, we could still push for her inclusion as an NPC depending on how the game is set up.

    Another more recent game is Marvel Strike Force that seems to have some minor synergy with Fox properties. It’s possible we could see her show up there because of The Gifted.

  10. #10555
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    You guys, Lorna's hair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So excited.

  11. #10556

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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderbytes View Post
    I thought I still had the game on my old iPad as well, unfortunately I was wrong.
    It’s also a shame about Marvel Heroes too, Lorna would've been a great addition there visually and it would be nice to see her in an environment where other characters that she has a history with or connection to(Magneto, Iceman, Scarlet Witch, etc...) interact with her vocally.

    Going forward, I would definitely try to champion her inclusion in games like Marvel Future Fight where they have literally hundreds of characters and are just now adding the X-Men.
    The Square Enix game to me sounds like a set up for something like Marvel Heroes where you can choose from a large cast that they continuously add to. I’m not sure about her chances of being playable there are because from the rumors, the only X-Women they’ve made models for are Storm and Jean (who was designated as Marvel Girl). However, we could still push for her inclusion as an NPC depending on how the game is set up.

    Another more recent game is Marvel Strike Force that seems to have some minor synergy with Fox properties. It’s possible we could see her show up there because of The Gifted.
    Well we don't know much in terms of the Square Enix game and its real early as in so early nothing from E3. If its based on Avengers Disassembled as rumored her odds go up some of her having some role if NPC as there is a good chance they would want HoM to be the next game.

    But, yes the target for Polaris near term are games that allow Fox IP and specifically ones that like to tie into the big things Fox/Marvel does like the Deadpool film. Come September, October and November its going to be all The Gifted given Dark Phoenix was moved and its the chance Lorna to show up in one or more games as the promotion gets high pitch for season 2.

  12. #10557
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post


    You guys, Lorna's hair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So excited.
    Yeah she definitely grew her hair out during the timeskip and pregnancy. We'll have to find out what the state of her powers are post pregnancy
    Chris Claremont, Peter David, Mike Carey, Cullen Bunn = canon. Others = fanfic.

  13. #10558

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post


    You guys, Lorna's hair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So excited.
    That is amazing.

    Its just great to have a version of Lorna that really is the modern heir to the few great depictions of Lorna in the comics over the years and its a version of the character that tens of millions are seeing and will continue to be seeing globally for a second season.

    No writing Lorna to accentuate and build up other characters here nor writing Lorna based on crap nostalgia for the character. I can't wait to see the season 2 publicity posters that should be going up soon.

    Lorna is going to have quite the struggle on her hands next season inside Hellfire and outside it.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-14-2018 at 08:03 AM.

  14. #10559
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    That is amazing.

    Its just great to have a version of Lorna that really is the modern heir to the few great depictions of Lorna in the comics over the years and its a version of the character that tens of millions are seeing and will continue to be seeing globally for a second season.

    No writing Lorna to accentuate and build up other characters here nor writing Lorna based on crap nostalgia for the character. I can't wait to see the season 2 publicity posters that should be going up soon.

    Lorna is going to have quite the struggle on her hands next season inside Hellfire and outside it.
    Agree with this but she is "paired up with" Marcos even on that promotion just saying
    Chris Claremont, Peter David, Mike Carey, Cullen Bunn = canon. Others = fanfic.

  15. #10560
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Well we don't know much in terms of the Square Enix game and its real early as in so early nothing from E3. If its based on Avengers Disassembled as rumored her odds go up some of her having some role if NPC as there is a good chance they would want HoM to be the next game.
    I think a HoM DLC could be highly likely for the game if it’s based around Avengers Disassembled. If that’s the case, it’s even more likely that we’d see Lorna as an NPC of sorts.

    But, yes the target for Polaris near term are games that allow Fox IP and specifically ones that like to tie into the big things Fox/Marvel does like the Deadpool film. Come September, October and November its going to be all The Gifted given Dark Phoenix was moved and its the chance Lorna to show up in one or more games as the promotion gets high pitch for season 2.
    One drawback of Strike Force is that they don’t add characters as quickly as others. It seems like the average is about two per month.
    Future Fight tends to add a lot of characters all at once so it’s a bit more likely we could see her this year. Especially since there’s no more MCU films coming out after next month.

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