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  1. #10681
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    It was only after she learned she was Magneto's daughter, and the Genosha mutant genocide happened, that she became more radicalized. But she still went to Xavier first. I know, real-world, writers, editors, didn't know what to do with her for years. But in-universe, I see it as a steady progression toward acceptance of her mutant powers, of Magneto as her father (and what that legacy entails), of her responsibilities as a super-powered being, and her identity as a mutant. She's making progress! (Real-world--thanks to fans, to good writers and editors who keep Lorna on the front-burner, and now thanks VERY MUCH to "The Gifted" and Emma Dumont's portrayal.)
    You had two long eras of change in Lorna's thinking. The first was the 1990s. She started out the decade in PAD's run with no opinion on Mutant affairs she had been divorced for them so long and needed Havok around to tell her what to do which was entirely in keeping with Claremontian Lorna.



    After that for most of PAD's run she was basically a parrot for her boyfriends POV on mutant issues. That isn't out of character mind you based on what Claremont did with her, but would have been for 60s Lorna. The character was not popular at the time and there were heavy demands at the time she be forced off the title and back in limbo. Mind you it was PAD at the top of his scripting game so a great series even I read at the time, but Lorna I thought was just a weak version of Jean and entirely uninteresting.

    Enter JM and here is where Lorna's mutant rights journey began again.



    He re-read her original story and noticed a few things namely she was actually was by 1960s standards a fair bit radical unlike the Scarlet Witch as in things like in her short storyline with later retconned Magneto was willing to use deadly force if need be against her threats to herself and Magneto.


  2. #10682
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    JM's run



    This era for the character, well call it integrationalism by all necessary means.



    While Magneto was trying to build a separate mutant only state in space. The government plotted to have her kidnapped and brainwashed to use as a weapon to destroy Avalon and kill Magneto. She was going to let that happen over as many Shield agents bodies as they sent against her.



    But, the events changed her view on things. The government became an amoral entity that will do what it will and so would she to protect mutants while working inside the system. What she was doing back then was a bit like Jean now only Lorna back then in 1993 made no bones about using deadly force to protect mutants and others.

  3. #10683
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    JM's did have Lorna articulate her views of that era on force and the rest.



    But, as is typical for Lorna the next set of writers don't entirely understand what was being done or misconstrue it and take things in their own direction. Lorna under Makie's pen quickly lost any real mutant rights views and he seemed to see her actions under JM's pen as her being unstable not an actual philosophy.

    Howard Makie

    She started scaring and worrying Random because she became reckless and violent...



    though not in any coherent philosophical way and seemed to becoming sort of Alex's unstable girlfriend/ex.

    Last edited by jmc247; 06-22-2018 at 02:17 PM.

  4. #10684
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    Then after Lorna and Havok break up after an 'evil Havok' arc where she has to fight to try to save him he disappears into the Mutant X universe and she suffers a full scale mental breakdown of the size and scale Emma did when Scott died. Though instead she locks herself in her room and talks to Havok's shirt like its really him for months.

    Magneto after the Poccy brouhaha decides this won't do, plus he needs her help ending the civil war as he tells her and brings her to Genosha.

    The Genosha project actually dovetailed on Lorna's JM views, because Genosha was after all not a land of just mutants, but mutants and humans living side by side and at the time she showed up fighting a civil war with countless tens of thousands or more dying.

    She accepts the logic that it would be better for to help Magneto put down the revolt and rule a dictatorship of mutant and humans then a continued civil war.



    Which was on its face was pretty hard utilitarianism which she showed heavy signs of under JM's tenure taken to a different level.



    The storyline itself was a reprise of her first 1960s story line in many ways, down to an injured Magneto only without touching the parentage issue as yet.


  5. #10685
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    In the end even among the writers who wanted to retcon her reasons for being there as Havok related and regress the character back to the 80s for her she believed in what they were building. Mind you such writers turned it from what they were building to purely what Magneto was building as if Lorna was a passive observer instead of the power behind the metaphoric throne actively helping build the nation as she was under the writers before.



    Bunn by in large followed the passive observer who generally likes the idea of a mutant run nation under Magneto track in his writing of Lorna. What it felt like he was doing in Magneto Last Days was trying to merge the 1980s Lorna with some aspects of 2000 Lorna before the genocide.



    In Blue she sort of went full on generic hero to date and in part this was a response to Magneto who suddenly decided to become headmaster again like the 80s. Bunn's Magneto in Blue kept a bit of nuance in that he was willing to end big threats to the X-Men and the world, while trying Xavier's dream. Lorna as a response to Magneto's change sort of lost any nuance in her own longstanding political beliefs or even willingness to use force.

    Obviously this era was in many ways the fallout from the Utopia/T-Mists era.

    The Utopia era was awesome for some characters and Magneto was among them, but it utterly demolished Lorna’s popularity as a character and the image of her as giving a fig about mutants. The damage done is deep and nothing done to date in the comics has moved the needle to repair the damage.

    Where was Lorna when mutants were facing genocide time and again in the post Decimation era? Not helping mutants that is for certain and that hurt the character massively.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-22-2018 at 01:01 PM.

  6. #10686
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    But, back to the history. At the end of the Genosha run Lorna did come to believe in the idea of a mutant nation as she said many times, but the most important part of the story was still yet to come



    The destruction of the Island and the end of its people. That changed Lorna more then building a homeland as Trask Industries robots unleashed by a mutant killed off the nation she helped to build and the people that loved and looked up to her under her protection.

    The Gifted writers are very much early 2000s fans. You are not one as that was the worst era for Magneto ever and I am not a fan of the era as a Magneto fan. The 80s was Magneto's best era as a character and Lorna's worst. The early 2000s happened to be Lorna's best and most interesting era as a character bar none IMHO.

    Yes, the genocide damaged Lorna's psyche immensely and her powers being stuck on for weeks to months damaged her very nervous system and we both know what that means for an EM manipulator.



    But, after she managed re-build emotional control what we had was months of a Lorna who was very much in the mold of JM's Lorna's thinking only on steroids. Yes, she blamed ordinary taxpayers who blindly support the Sentinel program with their cash and say nothing for what happened not just who pulled the trigger or racist humans who wanted it to happen.



    One can argue it was not a very helpful thinking towards all and one would be right, but you finally had a writer care enough to spend an issue on the world according to Lorna and one could disagree with her, but she was a character who actually cared about something not just individuals.

    This is in the end what The Gifted Lorna is based on and like I said Lorna of that era was more radical then The Gifted Lorna to date in that she wouldn't have agreed that Trask Industry employees are in fact innocents the way The Gifted Lorna did.

    Here is the thing people evolve based on circumstances and events, but as we both know the comics are at the whim of individual writers. After Austen left you had Milligan take over and it was a repeat of the Howard Makie issue as the new writer didn't see or care too much about the philosophy aspect of Lorna's character and instead played up the instability.

  7. #10687
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    Austen's Lorna by late 2003 one could imagine sitting down for tea with Emma and debating philosophy. Milligan's Lorna was too unstable for that after what Lorna saw in space unhinged her mind... again.



    After his run she was rebooted to her 70s portrayal, made an aspect in Havok's story again and sent into space for a half decade. But, after about a year Havok decides they have to stop with the generic hero stuff and fight like a space X-Force and then comes alot of war and killing. Then she goes back and forth based on writer on what she believes and what she stands for.

    The problem the character has had is the lack of a guiding light or goal on what she stands for and a core pathos or central motivational force for the character.

    In 2002 to early 2005 it was the Genoshan genocide, then Milligan wanted it to be what Lorna saw in space, then Brubaker wanted it to be Havok and it stayed Havok until PAD's re-written memory story and killing her mother became the new key to her pathos as a character. Bunn changed the key to her pathos back to an individualist prospective of wanting to help Havok and get to know her father and nothing deeper.

    You wouldn't believe how many X-Men fans took the view openly they didn't give two shits about Lorna until The Gifted.



    But, to answer your question what Lorna needs is a central driving pathos for what motivates the character (not who) that one writer to the next respects and a very clear involvement in mutant politics not generic superhero stuff. Her popularity and it was significant coming off the early 2000s was shattered by the space arc and X-Factor didn't rebuild it and neither did X-Men Blue.

    There are lessons to be had from Lorna’s history hence my mini history and those lessons are stark.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-22-2018 at 01:27 PM.

  8. #10688
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Austen's Lorna by late 2003 one could imagine sitting down for tea with Emma and debating philosophy. Milligan's Lorna was too unstable for that after what Lorna saw in space unhinged her mind... again.



    After his run she was rebooted to her 70s portrayal, made an aspect in Havok's story again and sent into space for a half decade. But, after about a year Havok decides they have to stop with the generic hero stuff and fight like a space X-Force and then comes alot of war and killing. Then she goes back and forth based on writer on what she believes and what she stands for.

    The problem the character has had is the lack of a guiding light or goal on what she stands for and a core pathos or central motivational force for the character.

    In 2002 to early 2005 it was the Genoshan genocide, then Milligan wanted it to be what Lorna saw in space, then Brubaker wanted it to be Havok and it stayed Havok until PAD's re-written memory story and killing her mother became the new key to her pathos as a character. Bunn changed the key to her pathos back to an individualist prospective of wanting to help Havok and get to know her father and nothing deeper.

    You wouldn't believe how many X-Men fans took the view openly they didn't give two shits about Lorna until The Gifted.



    But, to answer your question what Lorna needs is a central driving pathos for what motivates the character (not who) that one writer to the next respects and a very clear involvement in mutant politics not generic superhero stuff. Her popularity and it was significant coming off the early 2000s was shattered by the space arc and X-Factor didn't rebuild it and neither did X-Men Blue.

    There are lessons to be had from Lorna’s history hence my mini history and those lessons are stark.
    That was a freaking BRILLIANT history lesson, JMC! Wow! I hope "The Gifted" can be the template, then, for Lorna's portrayal in the comics. I really like how you show that Emma Dumont's version of Lorna is entirely in keeping with parts of her history. The thing about the tv show is, it's more grounded in reality than the comics. It's 2018--you can't say any more (or if they do, they'll get all kinds of blow-back) but you can't say she's a reflection of a boyfriend, or her father. Dumont's Lorna is struggling with her identity, yes, but it's her own struggle based on her own situation and experiences. Some of that pathos involves having been incarcerated in a mental institution for bipolar disorder, but also for being a mutant. And, she's pregnant. I think I've been filling in the gaps for comic-book Polaris in my head-canon, kind of glossing over those years of retrograde development and inconsistent writing. (I was so annoyed with some of the later X-FACTOR's after PAD left, I quit reading.) Thanks for that fantastic overview!

  9. #10689
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    That was a freaking BRILLIANT history lesson, JMC! Wow! I hope "The Gifted" can be the template, then, for Lorna's portrayal in the comics.
    I will just say this The Gifted has a whole team of writers as in a whole room full of them male and female and these writers don't really come with one singular vision of her coming in and it’s proved quite the plus to be able to look at the character with clear eyes unfettered by typical things that skew ones image toward or away from any particular era.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-23-2018 at 06:29 PM.

  10. #10690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivka View Post
    (I was so annoyed with some of the later X-FACTOR's after PAD left, I quit reading.) Thanks for that fantastic overview!
    As did more then a few fans where it was a straight line from reading PAD's Lorna in 1993 to Lorna atop a mountain of skulls on Genosha and treating Purifier wannabes like its hunting season not long after. The character in the 11 years from 1993 to 2004 actually had one hell of a story arc of change and development some of it well done and some of it not so well done, but it ended a long period of stagnation for the character.

    In regard to the skipping from PAD first run X-Factor which many fans did I don't believe one can really understand Lorna coming to Genosha to build a mutant homeland without reading JM's run hence all the attempts by some at explaining it (she was there to watch him, she was manipulated, or a half dozen other excuses) rather then what it was shown to be.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-23-2018 at 06:30 PM.

  11. #10691
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    To go back to Austin's Polaris for a bit, it kind of bugged me the way that Lorna was portrayed as being totally insane when she first arrived in his run. Mostly because she was so obviously insane that you wonder how the X-Men didn't catch on to it sooner. You didn't need to be a telepath like Jean, Emma, or the professor to see that Lorna needed some help.

  12. #10692
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngelSliver View Post
    To go back to Austin's Polaris for a bit, it kind of bugged me the way that Lorna was portrayed as being totally insane when she first arrived in his run. Mostly because she was so obviously insane that you wonder how the X-Men didn't catch on to it sooner. You didn't need to be a telepath like Jean, Emma, or the professor to see that Lorna needed some help.
    I thought they did catch it pretty well in Morrison's New X-Men 132 and said as much and that story convinced Austen to re-write his scripts for the next year with her.



    But, just realize there was no 'telepaths solution' for the problem at least within the bounds of Jean or Xavier's morality as mind wipes off the table short of a Fatal Attractions situation and one only developed because a certain someone got cold feet at the last moment at their wedding.

    Xavier telling her to power down was at least vaguely on the right track. The 'mental therapy' session was more about explaining things for the audience then about resolving anything. Rebuilding emotional control herself and letting her nervous system heal was the solution and it happened through 2003 and 2004, but it wasn't handed to her via any immediate deus ex machina.



    Then comes Milligan's run. His best arc with her was his first when he was vaguely following what came before, but quickly decides to change her pathos into what she sees in space that makes her completely unhinged and then hands a deus ex machina with Poccy using his machines to 'fix' that.

    However, Lorna's story line from 1993 to Genosha and its destruction wasn't a deus ex machina plot device one can just wash away with another plot device. Re-establishing emotional control and dealing with the fallout of events were separate though a bit interrelated things.

    Last edited by jmc247; 06-24-2018 at 10:09 AM.

  13. #10693
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    Update for characters with a connection to The Gifted season 2 reappearing.

    A black queen of past not in The Gifted season 2, but one of the bigger ones.

    You have the Morlocks and Cuckoos and obviously Blink on AU adventures.

    Iceman #1

    Iceman is back! Which is good, because someone is hunting the Morlocks for sport. Now it’s up to Bobby Drake to prevent another potential Mutant Massacre. But who’s behind this horrific hunt? You won’t believe it if we tell you! Guest-starring Bishop!

    X-23 #4

    It’s a sisters-vs.-sisters showdown as Laura must battle through the Cuckoos’ powerful mind projections to rescue Gabby — but why did the Cuckoos kidnap Gabby in the first place? And will Gabby be able to resist their psychic shackles, or will she turn against Laura too?

    https://www.cbr.com/marvel-comics-se...solicitations/
    As for Extermination we will see if that happens to be a certain set of twins.

  14. #10694
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    I wonder how many Polaris fans were introduced to her, and/or became one, via Austen's run?

  15. #10695
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