Top 5 most powerful Marvel characters of all time

[pinoypanzer]

No mentions of Blue Marvel or Sentry?

Blue Marvel is Herald Level and I'd put Sentry (more specifically The Void) above Herald but below Skyfather. Classic Odin is a gnat compared to a Celestial which is in turn a gnat to someone like MJJ

yeah i seen your edits.... but the top two powerful are still pre-retcon beyonder and owen.... (not including TOAA)

Indeed, no one's disputing that I meant is levels of infinity the right terminology. It's something like that but I'm not one hundred percent sure

[Random4]

Blue Marvel is Herald Level and I'd put Sentry above Herald but below Skyfather. Classic Odin is a gnat compared to a Celestial which is in turn a gnat to someone like MJJ



Indeed, no one's disputing that I meant is levels of infinity the right terminology. It's something like that but I'm not one hundred percent sure

oh..ok i understand

[SickAlice]

@pinoypanzer: Sorry for taking a bit to get back to you and for the short form here. Not feeling great but here it goes:

- already explained the MJJ feat in my OP, more pointing out the problem with feat logic using it as an example though. You seem to be on the same page with the HOM Wanda one and you see I actually agree, it is fallacy and that was the point of what I said.

Feat or panel use, or instance say which is a from of dice logic (2>1) is fine when debating in a Battle type thread because your questioning how the logistics of an actual combat would go. So how they've fought elsewhere makes a good representation of how they would perform in that scenario. I believe you understand this concept

However when just gauging and measuring the " amount " of power, as in the most powerful it doesn't actually work. The reason is it then becomes two questions:

1.) How powerful is the character?
2.) What is the characters most impressive on panel feat?

See the bad math now? The answer to the second question doesn't actually answer the first.

Using the bad equation I could present an argument that several characters, like HOM Wanda mentioned before are more powerful than TOAA. The reasoning here is Wanda's has more on panel showings. Likewise I could probably write a blog about how many characters must be more powerful than Eternity by the fact they have more on panel showings, whereas Eternity is more often shown just sort of being, or getting attacked. The fact is Eternity doesn't often intercede though, that's someone else's job and just often lets events play out as the future dictates. That however doesn't reason that Eternity is weak. The more well known example is The Watcher. The Watcher doesn't believe in interfering (on most days). Therefore one could conclude that Uatu is pretty feeble. Or at least weaker than characters that have " higher " or " more kick butt " showings than him.

We however know this isn't true of any of these three characters. We know because Marvel has told us otherwise, either on panel, in bio's or in interviews. Word of the writer in fiction is known as Word Of God. This is where we get the determination from. Or at least this is where I myself will choose to stand and I believe many others do as well. Now where this a debate about " who wins in a battle " then I would endorse other trains of thought. However this is just a question of who is the most powerful at base, not whose shown off the most nor uses their powers in the most creative manner. An exception is of course made when a specific writer appears to have neglected anything about the character to favor their own story (PIS/WIS/Inwrite/retcon). As you also already know.

As far as Infinite level vs Infinite level goes apply the same train of thought. Infinite equals infinite. Period. That's basic math. In a Battle debate again then different factors are brought into play, in just a power ratings system no. The only case a character gets anything higher than Infinite? Infinity+1. That is of course when there power exceeds the very rules and logic, all of them of the fiction. They can at any time overule anything else and that would be how TOAA would rate. Other characters who have infinite levels of power but are rated higher than others are designated as such do to how far their reach extends so to speak. Like two characters can have an infinite scope of power for example, but one has the ability to effect the universe the other the Multiverse. Here I believe we are in agreement and have been but are both wording things differently and it's appearing as if we're saying different things. But mind in this as well I do not count in panel feats because then I believe we would enter into the aforementioned bad train of logic.

This mind you is me spelling out my position, and maybe doing so for others. You are free to use your own system as you choose of course, though this is me explaining why I'll disagree with your echelon if it's being established of feats. I hope this helps to clarify.

[Mike82]

There should be absolutely no earth-bound characters in the top five. All their powers amount to nothing in comparison to the vast power of the cosmic entities.

Sorry, but no Spiderman, Storm, or Squirrel Girl please.

[pinoypanzer]

@pinoypanzer: Sorry for taking a bit to get back to you and for the short form here. Not feeling great but here it goes:

- already explained the MJJ feat in my OP, more pointing out the problem with feat logic using it as an example though. You seem to be on the same page with the HOM Wanda one and you see I actually agree, it is fallacy and that was the point of what I said.

Feat or panel use, or instance say which is a from of dice logic (2>1) is fine when debating in a Battle type thread because your questioning how the logistics of an actual combat would go. So how they've fought elsewhere makes a good representation of how they would perform in that scenario. I believe you understand this concept

However when just gauging and measuring the " amount " of power, as in the most powerful it doesn't actually work. The reason is it then becomes two questions:

1.) How powerful is the character?
2.) What is the characters most impressive on panel feat?

See the bad math now? The answer to the second question doesn't actually answer the first.

Using the bad equation I could present an argument that several characters, like HOM Wanda mentioned before are more powerful than TOAA. The reasoning here is Wanda's has more on panel showings. Likewise I could probably write a blog about how many characters must be more powerful than Eternity by the fact they have more on panel showings, whereas Eternity is more often shown just sort of being, or getting attacked. The fact is Eternity doesn't often intercede though, that's someone else's job and just often lets events play out as the future dictates. That however doesn't reason that Eternity is weak. The more well known example is The Watcher. The Watcher doesn't believe in interfering (on most days). Therefore one could conclude that Uatu is pretty feeble. Or at least weaker than characters that have " higher " or " more kick butt " showings than him.

We however know this isn't true of any of these three characters. We know because Marvel has told us otherwise, either on panel, in bio's or in interviews. Word of the writer in fiction is known as Word Of God. This is where we get the determination from. Or at least this is where I myself will choose to stand and I believe many others do as well. Now where this a debate about " who wins in a battle " then I would endorse other trains of thought. However this is just a question of who is the most powerful at base, not whose shown off the most nor uses their powers in the most creative manner. An exception is of course made when a specific writer appears to have neglected anything about the character to favor their own story (PIS/WIS/Inwrite/retcon). As you also already know.

As far as Infinite level vs Infinite level goes apply the same train of thought. Infinite equals infinite. Period. That's basic math. In a Battle debate again then different factors are brought into play, in just a power ratings system no. The only case a character gets anything higher than Infinite? Infinity+1. That is of course when there power exceeds the very rules and logic, all of them of the fiction. They can at any time overule anything else and that would be how TOAA would rate. Other characters who have infinite levels of power but are rated higher than others are designated as such do to how far their reach extends so to speak. Like two characters can have an infinite scope of power for example, but one has the ability to effect the universe the other the Multiverse. Here I believe we are in agreement and have been but are both wording things differently and it's appearing as if we're saying different things. But mind in this as well I do not count in panel feats because then I believe we would enter into the aforementioned bad train of logic.

This mind you is me spelling out my position, and maybe doing so for others. You are free to use your own system as you choose of course, though this is me explaining why I'll disagree with your echelon if it's being established of feats. I hope this helps to clarify.

Regarding your point about most impressive feats. I did mention in an earlier post to look at the most consistent presentation of the character. I guess I should amend it to the most consistent use of their power set. And to discount feats like Spider-Man and Captain America beating the Hulk. After all some characters have little to no feats and you are left with how they are presented. The problem is when hyperbole is added in the presentation and you end up with the no limits fallacy. I lurk the Rumbles thread often and they put more stock on on-panel feats over statements ( so I'm more used to that). Though I would state it depends on who is making the statement. But even then it can be tricky like when is is stated that MJJ is potentially an omniversal threat. I just refuse to accept that since that would mean, he would affect us.

Regarding infinite vs infinite Here's Marvel's explanation:

From Fantastic Four Annual #26

FFANN026_56.jpg
FFANN026_57.jpg

Thus, Cube level beings like Kubik are infinite but their power means diddly squat against The Living Tribunal who is on a higher level of infinity while TOAA is at the top and is thus the only omnipotent in Marvel.

Marvel uses Cantor’s Theorem for their explanation. Now while there are mathematicians who accept it, there are those who don’t. But you see Marvel writers couldn’t care less about their cosmic beings adhering to real world math and science. Whether one agree or disagree with Marvel, this is the explanation they have given. Best not to get carried away with this and use our free time for other fun things, like reading comics.

I think we are largely in agreement with a lot of things and like you said we phrase words differently.

[SickAlice]

I think we are largely in agreement with a lot of things and like you said we phrase words differently.

Sorry for the snip but answering this only gives my opinion on the rest of it anyways, and that's yes I'm seeing the the same thing now. Likely the problem on my end. I tend to jumble words and am out of sorts lately on top of it. Your description of Kubrik in comparison is to LT is an equivalent to what I was saying by Infinity+1. Likewise the scan use here is agreeable as it's a canon statement (so really writ from the writers/W.O.G.) giving the facts.

[RLAAMJR.]

I will exclude Storm from this topic.

I would say Blackbody is the most powerful.

[Mike82]

In no particular order:

1. The One Above All (Kevin Feige)
2. The Living Tribunal
3. Eternity
4. The Beyonder
5. Infinity

[pinoypanzer]

Sorry for the snip but answering this only gives my opinion on the rest of it anyways, and that's yes I'm seeing the the same thing now. Likely the problem on my end. I tend to jumble words and am out of sorts lately on top of it. Your description of Kubrik in comparison is to LT is an equivalent to what I was saying by Infinity+1. Likewise the scan use here is agreeable as it's a canon statement (so really writ from the writers/W.O.G.) giving the facts.

Woah,so Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, and Full Metal Jacket were directed by a cubed being!!!?

[mace11]

Blue Marvel is Herald Level and I'd put Sentry (more specifically The Void) above Herald but below Skyfather. Classic Odin is a gnat compared to a Celestial which is in turn a gnat to someone like MJJ



Indeed, no one's disputing that I meant is levels of infinity the right terminology. It's something like that but I'm not one hundred percent sure

Sentry is really skyfather level or above it.
One of his lower showings is around blue marvel,thor's and silver surfer's level, all Herald level types,but he did have lower showings than that,and his highest showings could rival the Phoenix,above skyfather level.

It may be theorized that the Sentry also has the ability to produce hard-light constructs similar to those of Dazzler's when it was revealed that the Void is a just an expression of his repressed persona, and thus his creation. With the people dubbing The Sentry as the world's most powerful superhero, and with the serum causing a photosynthetic reaction to his body, completely altering his state of consciousness, it is nonetheless conceivable that Sentry's powers are limitless, and may even rival those of the Silver Surfer's and Phoenix's. In effect, the Sentry's powers are seemingly limitless.

[The Fury]

Oh, I agree. The only way 616-MJJ could be more powerful is if he basically continues to warp reality to the extent that he basically takes over the multiverse - which from the Jasper's Warp storyline Merlin says will happen if he is not stopped.

However, it never gets to that stage, because Jaspers is killed well before that point.

But apologies for continuing to take the discussion off track.

Jaspers of 238 had to be stopped by removing his reality completely else his warping would have breached it and spread into the entire multiverse. It had already consumered that reality.

Like you say, 616 Jaspers hadn't reached that lever, but was according to Merlin, was more powerful. Considering that none of the cosmic gods in 238 were able to stop 238 Jaspers (I'd presume) before he consumed 238, it was left to those outside of that reality to fix it. Sadly fixing it was removing it.

I'd say Jaspers was the most powerful human ever, or will ever be.


On the list.
1) One Above All (god)
2) Living Tribunal
3) Eternity
4) Infinity
5) Weird as this is basically anyone with reality manip powers.

[RAINMESS]

1)TOAA of course
2)God Doom - If he REALLY destroyed Beyonders.

Keep in mind that Beyonders destroyed Living Tribunal.

[The Fury]

1)TOAA of course
2)God Doom - If he REALLY destroyed Beyonders.

Keep in mind that Beyonders destroyed every Living Tribunal.

There isn't 'every Living Tribunal', there is only 1, he spans the entire Multiverse. According to how things should go, his demise would mean instant destruction of the entire Multiverse. Infinity and Eternity's demise would mean destruction of the Universe they are in and all life in them, including Doom. Beyonders killing them makes little sense.

*insert other ranting statements*

However at this point, you are right and that's sad.

[genki_desu]

How does Jamie Braddock compare to Mad Jim Jaspers? I seem to remember that JB has a similar level of reality-warping power to Franklin Richards or Jim Jaspers but his insanity - the fact that he thinks he is dreaming at all times - means he doesn't really stretch his powers.

[RafDanvers]

That list became a proper team. The Ultimates.

Captain Marvel, Blue Marvel, Spectrum, Ms America, Black Panther