Should Wanda go on trial for for her actions? Or should Doom go on trial for his actions?

[Tazpocalapse]

By all I have read, researched and gotten from all the stories, by all that is known; Honestly it end up Fast in a Mistrial!

Why I say this cause their has never been even a proper investigation into anything, the main point is that as soon as Doom layed claim into manipulation and usage of Wanda and Possession came into the mix, then a NEW Investigation had to be Started, otherwise a trial can never calm to be fair and have to be thrown out.

This ontop of the events that already happen with Dissembles and HoM, so adding the Events of CC, the thread should have Really asked:

Before any Trial, where should the Investigation Start and by Who should it be Conducted By?

Beast did investigate M-day in Endangered Species going as far as asking many prominent scientists and magic users if they had any information that could help with M-day including Doom. He also tracked Wanda down to see if she had any answers.

[dragonmp93]

Agree, one of my major future hopes in stories is some more Interaction between Wanda and the Original Jean Grey when she returns. As you said XPac, both ladies are very similiar, from the Silver Age Intro's, to their places on their Home Teams to how they where both central Ladies of both teams.

Out of all Future Friendships I like to see this one on my top list!




Never a Negative Thing with Heroes becoming friends Dragonmp93, in fact the Marvel Verse Needs much more of it IMO! What has been the greatest illness be-set on the 616 verse has been all these Civil Wars and Schisms that have done None Good. All I hear is an end to it, so when it is happening between characters and hopes for future friendships, I say Cheers to them to get back to where things should be my friend!

Well, my problem with that is that Rogue was asking for forgiveness, when it was just getting even, at least.

And you mean the Adult Jean, right ?; because the Original Jean is the one that we have around.

If you try hard enough you can really justify putting every hero in the marvel universe on trial.

If the MU were run strictly to the letter of the law, Squirrel Girl would be pretty much the only marvel title not taking place out of Rikers Island.

And Ms. Marvel.

[ExodusCloak]

Doom layed claim into manipulation and usage of Wanda and Possession came into the mix, [/U][/I][/B]

You're putting words in Dooms mouth. Doom never elaborated on what he did. He just said it was him, then the notion that Doom could be lying to protect Wanda was brought up.

[Tazpocalapse]

The point of writing a story is to provide entertainment and sell comics. That's it. The more shock value, the better. These writers are trying to earn a living, and want
readers to keep coming back. Some of them may love their job, and they are lucky, but they are only doing a job in the entertainment field. These aren't volunteer
organizations with a specific goal. They tell stories and get paid for it. I guarantee none of the creators hold grudges against any of the characters, because to them,
they are only tools for their work. They count on being able to manipulate the emotions of the reader, but I think they also expect the same reader to realize that when
it's all said and done, it's just a fantasy anyway.

Stories are written for various reasons not just for entertainment and selling comics. Many comics and comic writers have written stories that they wanted to write in comic books to push a narrative or a theme. Comic books have been used to address many kinds of issues that a writer or artist may find relevant. Now if you are stating that Marvel only seeks to sell comics that is fine, but we can not ignore many stories have been written because it was a story that the writer wanted to tell. Many readers expect writers to realize even in fantasy that cause and effect exists.

[Star_Jammer]

And Ms. Marvel.

Isn't vigilantism illegal?

[CJStriker]

Beast did investigate M-day in Endangered Species going as far as asking many prominent scientists and magic users if they had any information that could help with M-day including Doom. He also tracked Wanda down to see if she had any answers.

Indeed, but what I got into that was to Help cure it more then anything else. My form of investigation is going into that if their is a trial you need to go into finding the evidence of those you are bringing to court. This can be used indeed, but you would have to do another round in finding evidence on the accused, both parties, the prosecution and the defense, would need to do this to have a fair trial.

You're putting words in Dooms mouth. Doom never elaborated on what he did. He just said it was him, then the notion that Doom could be lying to protect Wanda was brought up.

Not putting any words, cause he did not elaborate does not get him off the factors that now that he made the statements to have a proper trial investigations into him Have to be conducted to have one, either against Wanda or against him or both, otherwise the trial cannot be fair. A trial can be thrown out if their is Any Facts not properly investigated. The Notion Doom could be lying is not a statement of fact either, that part needs to be investigated as well.

All that is asked is a proper investigation into All Parts of what would lead to a trial, otherwise it becomes a Mistrial.

If Doom will not comply with any investigation, which is likely too, not trial can then be considered fair cause now he is considered a Key Witness and has likely hood of key evidence in he Castle. Otherwise a trial against him or Wanda or Both Again will become a Mistrial.

[gurkle]

Perfect post. Glad that not everyone sees X-fans as angsty, entitled teenagers.

X-fans aren't angsty, entitled teenagers but the X-Men mostly are, or act like they are. And there's nothing unique about that! Marvel comics is built on angsty, self-pitying heroes: Spider-Man, the Vision, Daredevil, Johnny Storm, the list goes on and on. They have amazing powers and are handsome and popular but they won't stop complaining about their lives. The X-Men have more teen characters than the other groups and therefore more teen angst, but they're not alone at all.

It is true that part of the appeal of the X-Men is that it speaks to the feeling that we are unique and different and nobody understands us. Yes, it's sometimes used as a metaphor for racism, but it shouldn't be taken too literally. (Most of the X-Men and New Mutants are white Christians who get to live in a mansion; it can comment on racism, but in a comic-booky way, not a serious way.) The idea is that these people have special abilities that set them apart from the rest of humanity, and are hated and feared for it. Every kid can identify with that feeling, just as they can identify with Spider-Man, trying to do good but constantly portrayed as a bad guy.

(I also think we need to avoid talking like "X Fans" are some completely different corner from Marvel fans. It's true there are some people, especially those who read comics in the '90s, who followed the X-Books and not so much the rest of the Marvel Universe. The X-Men as Claremont redefined them are so unique that they can appeal even to people who don't normally follow more traditional super heroes. But I don't know a lot of people who are fans of the Avengers and Fantastic Four and don't like at least some X-Men comics, and I don't know many X-fanatics who don't like any of the traditional Marvel heroes.)

[Mark]

Isn't vigilantism illegal?

She once helped the X-men break into the Pentagon so that they could erase government records, that was before her fascist turn in cw.

[Mark]

By all I have read, researched and gotten from all the stories, by all that is known; Honestly it end up Fast in a Mistrial!

Why I say this cause their has never been even a proper investigation into anything, the main point is that as soon as Doom layed claim into manipulation and usage of Wanda and Possession came into the mix, then a NEW Investigation had to be Started, otherwise a trial can never calm to be fair and have to be thrown out.

This ontop of the events that already happen with Dissembles and HoM, so adding the Events of CC, the thread should have Really asked:

Before any Trial, where should the Investigation Start and by Who should it be Conducted By?

The effect was felt across national and international borders, but if Wanda is a US citizen then the US government has jurisdiction. It would be a matter for the FBI to investigate and federal courts would hold jurisdiction. After it was all over other countries could seek extradition. The NSA might try to grab it on a national security level. But as this is the mu it's more likely that SHIELD or some other alphabet agency in the US government would grab her for experimentation/dissection or to use as a weapon.

[CJStriker]

The effect was felt across national and international borders, but if Wanda is a US citizen then the US government has jurisdiction. It would be a matter for the FBI to investigate and federal courts would hold jurisdiction. After it was all over other countries could seek extradition. The NSA might try to grab it on a national security level. But as this is the mu it's more likely that SHIELD or some other alphabet agency in the US government would grab her for experimentation/dissection or to use as a weapon.

I think anything would most likely be held around SHIELD, the Main Hero Teams and the UN if anything, but it be kept secret and not as high profile as Steve Rodger's was in the She-Hulk solo recently. A Doom Trail on the other hand would end up high profile non-the less cause of he is a national leader.

But the same organizations would need to 1st do the Investigations into all areas before any trial is to happen, SHIELD and Mainly the Super-Hero teams. Mainly the main detectives heroes would be best at that. A trial can only make clear and honest sense if all the facts in all areas where investigated, otherwise each organization would not have not much to stand on to make it a Fair Trail.

[XPac]

The effect was felt across national and international borders, but if Wanda is a US citizen then the US government has jurisdiction. It would be a matter for the FBI to investigate and federal courts would hold jurisdiction. After it was all over other countries could seek extradition. The NSA might try to grab it on a national security level. But as this is the mu it's more likely that SHIELD or some other alphabet agency in the US government would grab her for experimentation/dissection or to use as a weapon.

Course SHIELD actually does know about what happened. They got the info out of Spidey right before Civil War. I guess they just didn't really care.

[Iron Maiden]

As a fan of both characters, I wouldn't mind seeing Doom involved in the investigation. Providing he is willing to of course. We speak of these characters as if they have a life of his own but one of his traits is to keep his own counsel and he really feels he owes no one any explanation for his actions. It's a part of his egocentric traits.

IMO though I don't see how you can hold him responsible to anything beyond the same charge a waitperson or bar/restaurant might get for overserving a client who then gets involved in a traffic accident that involves injuries and fatalities. I don't even think gun shop owners can get fined for selling weapons that end up involved in a murder since they must follow federal laws about sales of firearms. The laws of magic however....who do you go to? The Vishanti maybe? They actually recognized Doom to the point where he heard the summons for the Trial of the Vishanti.

But beyond that, Doom was never present for Disassembled or the confrontation at the end of HoM. Does this mean Wanda was a sleeper agent / "Manchurian candidate" for Doom? Has this been brought up? The only flashback scene shows her leaving suddenly after the ritual IIRC. When the Life Force ritual was interrupted by Patriot taking a shot at Doom, he just short of disappeared and came back transformed. He was somewhat more altruistic than normal but still maintained some of his character traits.

[Star_Jammer]

She once helped the X-men break into the Pentagon so that they could erase government records, that was before her fascist turn in cw.

I think Dragonmp was referring to Ms. Marvel, aka Kamala Khan.

My question is still raised, however.

Another one: would costume pieces (y'know, the many times a Hero has had his/her costume ripped in battle) be considered as littering? If we're to uphold the law, everyone needs to be fined accordingly.

[CJStriker]

As a fan of both characters, I wouldn't mind seeing Doom involved in the investigation. Providing he is willing to of course. We speak of these characters as if they have a life of his own but one of his traits is to keep his own counsel and he really feels he owes no one any explanation for his actions. It's a part of his egocentric traits.

IMO though I don't see how you can hold him responsible to anything beyond the same charge a waitperson or bar/restaurant might get for overserving a client who then gets involved in a traffic accident that involves injuries and fatalities. I don't even think gun shop owners can get fined for selling weapons that end up involved in a murder since they must follow federal laws about sales of firearms. The laws of magic however....who do you go to? The Vishanti maybe? They actually recognized Doom to the point where he heard the summons for the Trial of the Vishanti.

But beyond that, Doom was never present for Disassembled or the confrontation at the end of HoM. Does this mean Wanda was a sleeper agent / "Manchurian candidate" for Doom? Has this been brought up? The only flashback scene shows her leaving suddenly after the ritual IIRC. When the Life Force ritual was interrupted by Patriot taking a shot at Doom, he just short of disappeared and came back transformed. He was somewhat more altruistic than normal but still maintained some of his character traits.

I agree and I my hopes if they HAD to do a story like this it be more of an Investigation story then a trial story, cause in an investigation story you can help out both Wanda and Doom to get them to move on from these stories. At the time the story did what it needed to help get the ball rolling again for Wanda, I appreciate the story for that Allot! Since then thought I have wanted an end to the story that helps move both characters past CC and helps they say something else happen that gets them away from it to make more sense.

I know their will never be a story that will fill in ALL the holes, make sense of ALL the Canon either. So Much Canon was ignored to make Dissembles happen as Iron Maiden you say much of ignored for Doom to make CC happen, it just leaves a mess. Any story can only help end most of the missing pieces and negatives from them, but the story would best serve to help move both towards more innocents and moving on from the events IMO for the sake of both characters fanbases.

[Kieran_Frost]

By all I have read, researched and gotten from all the stories, by all that is known; Honestly it end up Fast in a Mistrial!

Why I say this cause their has never been even a proper investigation into anything, the main point is that as soon as Doom layed claim into manipulation and usage of Wanda and Possession came into the mix, then a NEW Investigation had to be Started, otherwise a trial can never calm to be fair and have to be thrown out.

This ontop of the events that already happen with Dissembles and HoM, so adding the Events of CC, the thread should have Really asked:

Before any Trial, where should the Investigation Start and by Who should it be Conducted By?

There are enough witnesses to "No more mutants" to justify an arrest. Both parties would need to provide evidence, it would be up to Wanda's defence team to do the most investigating (so I guess the question is: who would represent Wanda and would they have the resources to actually do enough investigating to prove she's innocent?).