Should Wanda go on trial for for her actions? Or should Doom go on trial for his actions?

[CJStriker]

There are enough witnesses to "No more mutants" to justify an arrest. Both parties would need to provide evidence, it would be up to Wanda's defence team to do the most investigating (so I guess the question is: who would represent Wanda and would they have the resources to actually do enough investigating to prove she's innocent?).

If anything we learned in comic books is what you experience is only the beginning of the truth as we got with the CC story, so yea it be up to the investigations to come up with ALL the facts, people, evidence. More-over, not who would defend or would would prosecute, but who would led the investigations that would be totally unbiased and get to the facts in all corners of the Marvel Verse to make a trail legitimate. Also, the defense is proving Innocence and the Prosecution is proving guilt, but each side must have the right facts so that they don't derail themselves.

Again, no trail until an Investigation is done, Justice is blind, making it anything less undermines both sides IMO and hurts any case.

[People Of The Earth]

Before I answer that point, we need to precisely define our terminology if we are going to come around to a trial and redemption. "Genocide" has been thrown about numerous times but are all of us in agreement as to what it exactly is?

People usually go with the UN definition on the forum.

Now, establish exactly what she did and the direct consequences, setting aside for the time being the indirect consequences. To wit, House of M had her nullifying the x-gene, as I understand it. That in itself is not necessarily or automatically fatal for all affected.

True.

Next, her subsequent actions and her state of mind. Intent plays a role in mitigating whatever culpability is established.

Well, she was possessed the whole time, from Disassembled to House of M, she wasn't in the driver seat: she had no intent at the time, no will of her own even.

Finally, contrition and reparation. Ideally the latter should attempt to address the scale of what was done, in order to put things right as much as possible. If it cannot be done, something equal in value may be imposed.

Well, it was possible to reimbued the rest of the depowered mutants - she was gonna do it despite the X-men trying to capture her, but her attempt was sabotaged later on by Patriot.
The closest thing "equal" in value was the creation of phoenix-induced mutates at the end of AvX. And as others have noted, not only the depowered mutants didn't get their powers back, the new mutates had no say in their lives being changed for them either.

That's my take on it. Others may have their own.

Thank you for sharing it.

[People Of The Earth]

Beast did investigate M-day in Endangered Species going as far as asking many prominent scientists and magic users if they had any information that could help with M-day including Doom. He also tracked Wanda down to see if she had any answers.

Doom replaced an amnesic Wanda with a Doombot following M-day, beyond his own involvement, he had no incentive in genuinely helping Beast's quest.

You're putting words in Dooms mouth. Doom never elaborated on what he did. He just said it was him, then the notion that Doom could be lying to protect Wanda was brought up.

Then he admitted he shouldn't have abused the power in Avengers World while being inverted, so the idea he was lying is no more.

[CJStriker]

People usually go with the UN definition on the forum.

True.

Well, she was possessed the whole time, from Disassembled to House of M, she wasn't in the driver seat: she had no intent at the time, no will of her own even.

Well, it was possible to reimbued the rest of the depowered mutants - she was gonna do it despite the X-men trying to capture her, but her attempt was sabotaged later on by Patriot.
The closest thing "equal" in value was the creation of phoenix-induced mutates at the end of AvX. And as others have noted, not only the depowered mutants didn't get their powers back, the new mutates had no say in their lives being changed for them either.

Thank you for sharing it.

Indeed People Of The Earth, that is the Key to allot of this, but even more not has been added Ontop of that to since.

Marvel in recent stories has now moved more and more with the ideals that Doom Manipulated Wanda up to the point of possession that happen, adding to the CC story even more. Marvel has not gone into Major definition about this of what this means, either from Doom's Side in the Avengers World AXIS Tie-Ins or when it was mentioned in both said story, Uncanny Avengers, AXIS and more then liking in other books.

IMO this is Marvel moving more on the angle of Wanda being used threw and threw the story, adding from what CC created, moving more towards Innocents. Marvel should flesh this MUCH more out to help Move both Wanda and Doom to a more clearer outcome to helps both in a Positive sense. That is why an Investigation is Key to ALL of this, not a trial. Possession, Doom's Roll, the Increasing suggestion of Manipulation, Marvel has Recon this in their present stories, so if Fans want a Trail to Happen we should want 1st the Investigation to happen to have Marvel set their records and definitions in stone and be clear.

[Mark]

Course SHIELD actually does know about what happened. They got the info out of Spidey right before Civil War. I guess they just didn't really care.

Or they actually liked the idea of less super powered people running about and Wanda getting rid of a lot of mutants dovetailed with their own goals. A trial would be further complicated by how rotten and corrupt to the core the MU US Government and SHIELD actually are.

[CJStriker]

Doom replaced an amnesic Wanda with a Doombot following M-day, beyond his own involvement, I had no incentive in genuinely helping Beast's quest.

Then he admitted he shouldn't have abused the power in Avengers World while being inverted, so the idea he was lying is no more.

Indeed, People Of The Earth, these are also Major Keys in the story and why any trail would be a Mistrial without looking further into these points. The part with Doom in Avengers World while being inverted is most key. I still like an investigation to help move Doom pasted this as well, both for his character and for his fans.

but that story Tie-In With Avengers World Does give much more credence that Doom, up to now, Had a Major Role in the Events and was not lying about being apart of it.

[Mark]

I think Dragonmp was referring to Ms. Marvel, aka Kamala Khan.

My question is still raised, however.

Another one: would costume pieces (y'know, the many times a Hero has had his/her costume ripped in battle) be considered as littering? If we're to uphold the law, everyone needs to be fined accordingly.

I do keep forgetting about the name change.

[XPac]

Or they actually liked the idea of less super powered people running about and Wanda getting rid of a lot of mutants dovetailed with their own goals. A trial would be further complicated by how rotten and corrupt to the core the MU US Government and SHIELD actually are.

There's probably some truth to that.

In Uncanny Avengers they mentioned that Poccys cult of depowered mutants numbered in the hundreds of thousands. That's an aweful lot of mutants dedicated to the destruction of humanity. You can argue the MU really dodged a bullet there. From SHIELDS perspective I imagine it looks like the useful world saving mutants (the X-Men) are for the MOST part untouched, so in theory they might actually be good with the results.

[Kieran_Frost]

If anything we learned in comic books is what you experience is only the beginning of the truth as we got with the CC story, so yea it be up to the investigations to come up with ALL the facts, people, evidence. More-over, not who would defend or would would prosecute, but who would led the investigations that would be totally unbiased and get to the facts in all corners of the Marvel Verse to make a trail legitimate. Also, the defense is proving Innocence and the Prosecution is proving guilt, but each side must have the right facts so that they don't derail themselves.

Again, no trail until an Investigation is done, Justice is blind, making it anything less undermines both sides IMO and hurts any case.

While investigations do often happen before an arrest, when there is enough evidence to arrest (i.e. multiple witnesses to the crime) you arrest... THEN investigate; and continue that investigation while the accused is in jail, awaiting trial (or until bail is posted, if bail is granted... which, with a reality warper, I doubt it would be). Enough people saw her say "no more mutants" to warrent arresting her. She then stands trial. Now, in cases like these either: they get a mutant lawyer to defend her OR the prosecution is a mutant lawyer (which would be juicier).

[dragonmp93]

X-fans aren't angsty, entitled teenagers but the X-Men mostly are, or act like they are. And there's nothing unique about that! Marvel comics is built on angsty, self-pitying heroes: Spider-Man, the Vision, Daredevil, Johnny Storm, the list goes on and on. They have amazing powers and are handsome and popular but they won't stop complaining about their lives. The X-Men have more teen characters than the other groups and therefore more teen angst, but they're not alone at all.

It is true that part of the appeal of the X-Men is that it speaks to the feeling that we are unique and different and nobody understands us. Yes, it's sometimes used as a metaphor for racism, but it shouldn't be taken too literally. (Most of the X-Men and New Mutants are white Christians who get to live in a mansion; it can comment on racism, but in a comic-booky way, not a serious way.) The idea is that these people have special abilities that set them apart from the rest of humanity, and are hated and feared for it. Every kid can identify with that feeling, just as they can identify with Spider-Man, trying to do good but constantly portrayed as a bad guy.

(I also think we need to avoid talking like "X Fans" are some completely different corner from Marvel fans. It's true there are some people, especially those who read comics in the '90s, who followed the X-Books and not so much the rest of the Marvel Universe. The X-Men as Claremont redefined them are so unique that they can appeal even to people who don't normally follow more traditional super heroes. But I don't know a lot of people who are fans of the Avengers and Fantastic Four and don't like at least some X-Men comics, and I don't know many X-fanatics who don't like any of the traditional Marvel heroes.)

Have you speak with them after AvX ?.

And well, given that these days they are chased by everyone including the government, and that like half of them are living in an abandoned torture lab in the canadian wilderness.

Isn't vigilantism illegal?

I think Dragonmp was referring to Ms. Marvel, aka Kamala Khan.

My question is still raised, however.

Another one: would costume pieces (y'know, the many times a Hero has had his/her costume ripped in battle) be considered as littering? If we're to uphold the law, everyone needs to be fined accordingly.

I think that basically everyone would in jail by now, even Ms. Marvel, if the normal humans are big enough #%&&%#.

[People Of The Earth]

While investigations do often happen before an arrest, when there is enough evidence to arrest (i.e. multiple witnesses to the crime) you arrest... THEN investigate; and continue that investigation while the accused is in jail, awaiting trial (or until bail is posted, if bail is granted... which, with a reality warper, I doubt it would be). Enough people saw her say "no more mutants" to warrent arresting her. She then stands trial. Now, in cases like these either: they get a mutant lawyer to defend her OR the prosecution is a mutant lawyer (which would be juicier).

I don't see why the lawyers should be "mutants", why would such choices have to be racially motivated ?

Also, the investigation would be pretty quick: both Avengers and X-men discovered that Wanda was being possessed by the Life Force during HoM and Disassembled, and Doom confirmed his involvement once at the end of CC and again recently in AW...

[ExodusCloak]

Then he admitted he shouldn't have abused the power in Avengers World while being inverted, so the idea he was lying is no more.

No it was still never clear in Avengers World either.

[CJStriker]

While investigations do often happen before an arrest, when there is enough evidence to arrest (i.e. multiple witnesses to the crime) you arrest... THEN investigate; and continue that investigation while the accused is in jail, awaiting trial (or until bail is posted, if bail is granted... which, with a reality warper, I doubt it would be). Enough people saw her say "no more mutants" to warrent arresting her. She then stands trial. Now, in cases like these either: they get a mutant lawyer to defend her OR the prosecution is a mutant lawyer (which would be juicier).

Really there should be a choice of a prosecutor that is unbiased and the defendant gets to choice who defends them in the end, a trial needs to be set in the ideals of “Justice is Blind”, so there should not be added emotions or who be Juiciest to do the trial. Otherwise the Trail becomes a Circus or a Kangaroo Court, undercutting any true resolution you, I or anyone else should want to get too my friend.

Also, going back to an earlier Post by XPac, I think any Investigation and/or Trail would result in a 95-98% chance of this in the end anyways:

Since Marvel wants Wanda to be free, again the ONLY reason to put her on trial would be to give her an innocent verdict to give her more of a pass than she's already received. And I'm just not sure it's even worth it at this point.

Any story IMO would center on this cause of the status of Marvel wanting to now use her more and any story like this would end up like XPac said.

[People Of The Earth]

No it was still never clear in Avengers World either.

Not only Doom admitted he abused the power while being inverted, but Wanda went after him to get revenge on what he did to her, also while being inverted...
The theory of the "great lie" lost any leg during Axis.

[CJStriker]

Not only Doom admitted he abused the power while being inverted, but Wanda went after him to get revenge on what he did to her, also while being inverted...
The theory of the "great lie" lost any leg during Axis.