Sentry vs Post-Retcon Beyonder

[Anarchist]

He defeated Post Retcon-Molecule Man, can he do the same to Post Retcon-Beyonder?

[Pendaran]

Neh, likely as not. As the Maker they had enough energy output to KO Thanos in one big zorch. C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.

[big_adventure]

Seconding what Pen said there, most tellings of the post-retcon Beyonder tale do not leave him in a place where he gets offed by Sentry.

[Elixir]

Sure he can beat the post-retcon Beyonder.

Post-Retcon Molecule Man easily overpowered the Post-Retcon Beyonder.

When Molecule Man faced The Sentry, he was in his unrestrained normal-self as he showed himself able to use his powers in new ways as he got rid of all his negative beliefs on his abilities (the Dark Reign Files are a precious source of information before reading Dark Avengers) and Sentry literally effortlessly overpowered Owen when he understood that he could warp the reality (even he trusted himself using some molecule manipulation which are interchangeable terms in the Marvel Universe).

Logically Sentry could obliterate PR Molecule Man the same way he destroyed Owen.

He beat an high-end sentinent Cosmic-Cube being without trying after all...

[Anarchist]

Post-Retcon Molecule Man easily overpowered the Post-Retcon Beyonder.

When?

the Dark Reign Files are a precious source of information before reading Dark Avengers

We only count what's inside the comic itself.

He beat an high-end sentinent Cosmic-Cube being without trying after all...

Not really, he got obliterated first, only then he got a hold of his powers.
And even then, he admitted that MM still had more control (he needed him to change reality back), it's just that he had more power.

PS: Necromancy is evil

[Elixir]

When?

Fantastic Four #24

It was stated that the bald Molecule Man was a shadow of Owen's former-self and that the regular Molecule Man, present in Dark Avengers, was the all-powerful one overshadowing the power of other sentinent Cosmic-Cubes.

We only count what's inside the comic itself.

So do I.

The Dark Reign Files are the official point of view of Marvel about Molecule Man's mental state and the way his power works.

In Dark Avengers, Molecule Man showed that he got rid of the negative beliefs he had in his abilities and therefore is able to do everything what he wanted to.

A Molecule Man whom believes that he can do everything that he wants operates at full power as far as I know.

Not really, he got obliterated first, only then he got a hold of his powers.

That's true but Sentry didn't know that he had the ability to counter Owen's powers at this moment.

And even then, he admitted that MM still had more control (he needed him to change reality back), it's just that he had more power.

Exactly.

Owen trained himself in the use of his abilities during years.

Sentry discovered that he could manipulate the reality for the first time and overpowered Owen.

It's like a lightweight martial artist facing a Behemoth whom discovered that he can fight back for the first time and catch the lightweight whom is unable to do anything, if that analogy sounds reasonable.

Sentry has more raw psionic power than Owen but Owen is more skilled in using it.

We can see that has an evolution of Sentry holding very briefly a Cosmic Cube when he assissted Reed Richards then years later Bob is able to hold a sentinent Cosmic-Cube being whom is far more powerful than the other Cosmic Cube beings, like The Beyonder or Kubik.

That's the way I'm seeing this.

[The Dork Knight]

That's a lot of stuff based on statements and not actual feats

PR Molecule Man repaired the damage to the multiverse with a wave of his hand . No feats for Sentry are close to this , and stuff like only barely containing a well...cosmic cube outright contradicts this

PR is pre Retcon MM here

Besides current MM is waay beyond Sentry

[Elixir]

That's a lot of stuff based on statements and not actual feats

PostRetcon Molecule Man repaired the damage to the multiverse with a wave of his hand . No feats for Sentry are close to this , and stuff like only barely containing a well...cosmic cube outright contradicts this

That's not based on statements.

When Sentry very briefly contained the Cosmic Cube, he didn't know that he had the ability to warp the reality like he discovered it in Dark Avengers.

Molecule Man's powers works the way he believes they are working.

PostRetcon Molecule Man IS the Molecule Man that Sentry faced.

Sentry beating him easily at his own game is THE FEAT that back-up all the informations that Marvel provided about him.

Sentry's psionic power is superior to Molecule Man's psionic power.

That's not hard to grasp.

Current MM is channeling the power of The Beyonders into God Doom.

There is no proof that he can use it as he is just a conduct of the power.

Do you have feats of Molecule Man to prove that he is more powerful than he was before ?

[Anarchist]

Fantastic Four #24

Wait, what?
There are 5 volumes of FF.
And none of those have a #24 where Beyonder or MM appear.

[Elixir]

Wait, what?
There are 5 volumes of FF.
And none of those have a #24 where Beyonder or MM appear.

FF-An#27-47-48.jpg

That's right.

I meant in the Fantastic Four Annual #27.

[Anarchist]

I'm quite sure that we deemed this once instance as an outlier for both parties, as it pretty much ignores the entire Retcon thing.

I mean Post-Retcon MM and Beyonder have both been explicitly pegged well below cosmics such as the Celestials and Galactus, and even though the latter are crazy-powerful, they are not multiversal.

[Sharpandpointies]

Oh, Beyonder. Your Donnie Osmond look, your jumpsuited form, your infinite immaturity, and your appalling continuity...

...how I detest thee.

^_^

[Pendaran]

I'm quite sure that we deemed this once instance as an outlier for both parties, as it pretty much ignores the entire Retcon thing.

I mean Post-Retcon MM and Beyonder have both been explicitly pegged well below cosmics such as the Celestials and Galactus, and even though the latter are crazy-powerful, they are not multiversal.

It's a staggeringly colossal outlier from both parties post retcon, yes.